851

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

http://oi45.tinypic.com/m92eq9.jpg

852

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Doctor Submarine wrote:
Zarban wrote:
Darth Praxus wrote:

There was no concept of a singular Adversary called Satan until Judaism began to take its cues from Zoroastrianism.

Yeah, and that's what's weird about calling Judaism and Christianity "monotheistic". There's also this god of evil lurking around every corner, ruling Hell, and trying to make you buy dresses.*

*Mainly applies to Flip Wilson

The idea of Satan always confused me. So he's a fallen angel, and he rules over Hell...wherein he punishes people who don't obey God? Huh?

The issue is muddy; a lot of the tradition of Satan ruling hell is just that, tradition. In the NT, it's more implied that he rules over the earth itself (the prince of the power of the air). Hell isn't even the final horror for unbelievers, the Lake of Fire is.

853

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Zarban wrote:

** Him and Satan, I guess? Satan helped him out later when they decided to gamble with Lot's faith.

The "us" is a remnant of the days when the Hebrews were polytheistic and there would have been "us". Evangelicals retcon this to say God was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

The Satan thing is really interesting: pretty much any time the OT refers to him, it's a deliberate mistranslation of the term "the satan" or "a satan" because a satan was originally a kind of angel. For instance, the angel that talks to Balaam in the road? That's a satan (redacted by the English translations as "the angel"). There was no concept of a singular Adversary called Satan until Judaism began to take its cues from Zoroastrianism.

854

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Sam F wrote:
Lamer wrote:

So the answer is 'the lord works in mysterious ways'?

Yeah. Not just mysterious, but higher. And I have no problem accepting that.

But that's just it: His ways *aren't* higher. Every time He does something in the OT, it uses only the phenomena that the people of those days would be aware of: flood, fire, locusts, etc. He never does anything that truly demonstrates His superiority and His knowledge of things that we have no knowledge of. It's similar to Hitchens' point: the creation account never mentions microbes or dinosaurs or such things, because the people who wrote Genesis didn't know those things existed and thus didn't know that God would have needed to create them. Everything God does is limited to the knowledge of the people creating Him. There's nothing "high" about His doings at all.

855

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Sam F wrote:

It's also impossible to walk on water or to turn it into wine. If God caused the flood, I assume he could take care of the rest. There are also details about the story we don't know. All we have is what is in the text.

Keep in mind we are talking about God here. To accept the Bible is to accept divine intervention. And you really can't disprove that. You can only choose whether or not to believe it.

If God could keep all the animals alive despite no food, why does He need an Ark at all? Why not just keep the animals alive despite the water around them? If He can somehow grow populations from nothing, why not allow all land animals to breathe water for forty days? Why the Flood at all? Why not just wipe everyone out instantly?

Which, in the end, is more likely: that God decided to exercize His judgment in the most complicated manner possible, and a curiously limited and inefficient one at that; or that ancient people with nearly no scientific knowledge and a powerful fear of the elements invented the whole thing to rationalize a terrifying situation?

856

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Sam F wrote:
Darth Praxus wrote:

What that doesn't prove is that the Biblical account is true by any means...

I know that.

Darth Praxus wrote:

... because it's not.

You don't know that.

Really, we do. If there had been a global flood:

1. Most, if not all, plant life would have been destroyed, which means that the herbivores leaving the Ark would have nothing to eat.

2. Those herbivores would quickly have been killed by the carnivores, who also would have nothing to eat.

3. Only two of each animal is not enough to repopulate the earth, especially because of the skewed predator/prey ratio (see point 2.)

4. The Ark itself just does not work in terms of fitting all the animals, let alone their waste, food, etc.

The Biblical account is impossible, if we are to take it literally. And if it's not literal, it means nothing in this context anyway.

857

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Sam F wrote:
avatar wrote:

Noah's Flood is a good example of this. The story was ripped off the Babylonians during the 6th century BC exile. There are Flood Myths (Epic of Gilgamesh) which long precede any Hebrew writing - by about 1000 years.

Isn't it peculiar that so many ancient cultures passed down similar flood stories? Maybe it's because a great flood actually happened. Different cultures infused their own myths into the stories, but the fact that so many of them told stories of a great flood tells me that maybe Moses wasn't copying them, but referencing the same actual event.


Sure that's possible. It's the most likely explanation, actually--the Fertile Crescent flooded, and the survivors needed a way to process and understand it. What that doesn't prove is that the Biblical account is true by any means, because it's not. It's just one of many derivative legends that comes from a flawed attempt to understand a disaster. And considering it's the oldest piece of literature we have, it's far more likely that Gilgamesh was being copied by the writer of the Flood account (who wasn't Moses, by the by) than that writer having the one true account.

858

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

The problem with anyone insisting that "Christian morality" is a thing is that no Christian moral statements are original to Christianity. The laws of The Pentateuch (which were Jewish anyway, before Christianity claimed the OT as their own) are based in large part on Hammurabi's laws. Jesus' Golden Rule was written before him by Plato, Hillel, etc. There is no truly original moral code in the Bible. As Christopher Hitchens said: "Name me a moral action that a believer can perform and an unbeliever can't." You can't do it.

859

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

iJim wrote:
Darth Praxus wrote:
iJim wrote:

I'm not sure what incident/s you're talking about. The church wasn't big on burning libraries or museums. They were about torturing heretics until they repented for saying the Earth went around the Sun. GET IT RIGHT.

Nearly all the Gnostic writings, for starters. Until we found Nag Hammadi we had almost none of them left.

And here I thought you meant items of value...  big_smile

Fair enough. tongue Regardless of the quality of the works in question, any group that takes it into their own hands to burn and attempt to utterly eradicate literature they disagree with is unquestionably ignorant at best and frighteningly dangerous/malicious at worst.

860

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

iJim wrote:
Darth Praxus wrote:

They were also responsible for the destruction of thousands of priceless documents that were deemed counter to church teachings. I'm fully with Dorkman here.

I'm not sure what incident/s you're talking about. The church wasn't big on burning libraries or museums. They were about torturing heretics until they repented for saying the Earth went around the Sun. GET IT RIGHT.

Nearly all the Gnostic writings, for starters. Until we found Nag Hammadi we had almost none of them left.

861

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

iJim wrote:

Besides some monks who held down the fort of human knowledge during the dark ages I agree with Mike here. Every major period of advancement since Christ has been in spite of religious forces not because of them. The Renaissance and the Enlightenment were propelled by ideals antithetical to those being pushed by Rome.

But I don't think it's *as* bad as Mike paints it - the Catholic church is almost entirely responsible for the university system. It speaks to the value placed on advancement and that counts for something. I can't think of many other pluses. Greece built cool structures to honor the gods. So dats cool, bro.

They were also responsible for the destruction of thousands of priceless documents that were deemed counter to church teachings. I'm fully with Dorkman here.

Are you guys ever gonna get to the Pirates sequels? Also, it'd be interesting for you to do a commentary on the 2011 The Thing comparing it to the 1982 one.

863

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

SamF wrote:
Darth Praxus wrote:

Whenever people bring up how none of us deserves His compassion, we all deserve to burn, etc. etc., I really do wonder: why can't He just do what He commands us to do and just forgive? Why all this pointless rigamarole with the cross and salvation that ensures that some will burn, rather than just Him doing what we're ordered to do

Because although He is a loving God, he is also a perfectly JUST God. He can't let evil go without punishment. It must be paid for. That's why Jesus came as a man - to pay our fine with the sacrifice of His perfect and sinless life.

So, by that logic, God specifically ordered His followers to regularly perform an unjust deed? Seems we have a problem, doesn't it?

864

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Sam F wrote:
Darth Praxus wrote:
Sam F wrote:

I'm gonna defer to Romans 1:18-20 on that one. The evidence we've got is plenty. You may not accept the evidence, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Regardless of whether it's "enough" or not, you can't deny that God gave (allegedly) far more evidence to a bunch of illiterate first-century Palestinians.

I don't understand what illiteracy has to do with it, and I also don't see how that makes Him a crappy God. We don't deserve any grace at all, so the fact that He's done anything for any of us shows his compassion. He's not going to save everyone, plain and simple; and it's not fair, only because none of us deserve it. The fair thing would be to let us all suffer.

Whenever people bring up how none of us deserves His compassion, we all deserve to burn, etc. etc., I really do wonder: why can't He just do what He commands us to do and just forgive? Why all this pointless rigamarole with the cross and salvation that ensures that some will burn, rather than just Him doing what we're ordered to do?

SamF wrote:

You may disagree, but an opinion on what is good or bad based on a morality that has no ultimate grounding in anything but fallible human reasoning doesn't change what is truly good from biblical standards. If you don't accept those biblical standards of good and bad, you don't accept the biblical God and that opinion of Him is therefore pointless anyway.

That's crap. To go along with avatar's argument, the Bible never condems slavery, rather openly endorsing it. Are you going to tell me humans were making a faulty moral statement when they decided slavery was wrong?

865

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Five pages deep in a thread about religion, and no flame war. That's gotta be an internet record.

Has there ever been a flame war here? I haven't really actively used the forum until 2012, so I don't know its entire history.

866

(373 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Sam F wrote:
Dorkman wrote:

That's pretty crappy of God, IMO. At one point he went way out of his way to show himself to people to get them to believe and performed miracles right in their faces. Why was that good enough for them but I'm supposed to take a book's word for it? I think if he cares that much I deserve at LEAST as much evidence as he was willing to provide then -- and note that providing that evidence explicitly did not infringe on free will or faith.

I'm gonna defer to Romans 1:18-20 on that one. The evidence we've got is plenty. You may not accept the evidence, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Regardless of whether it's "enough" or not, you can't deny that God gave (allegedly) far more evidence to a bunch of illiterate first-century Palestinians.

867

(6 replies, posted in Episodes)

I think the weasel-penis-hazing bit in this one is the hardest I've ever laughed in my history of listening to the show, and that's saying something.

Do you guys think there could be a good Phantom Edit version of GoF? I personally think you'd need to add some stuff in addition to taking things away.

868

(32 replies, posted in Off Topic)

CG fire still doesn't quite work for me. It was the only flaw in Gravity's VFX that I noticed.

869

(64 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night. Morning. Whatever, I'm tired, and we're all in different time zones. tongue

http://0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/87/45/9960ff4db7f74a12355b402344972b5f.jpg

870

(209 replies, posted in Off Topic)

How did everyone else feel about Frozen, if anyone saw it? I just saw it, and was pleasantly surprised at how strong the female characters were. And the animation was gorgeous. Music wasn't so spectacular in most cases, but "Let It Go" is a lock for Best Original Song at the Oscars.

871

(95 replies, posted in Off Topic)

My roommate returned from a showing the other day saying this was worse than Prometheus. Ouch.

872

(34 replies, posted in Off Topic)

It's a Wonderful Life and White Christmas, mostly. I decided to watch the Star Wars Holiday Special last year, and it almost killed me. Definitively the worst viewing experience I've ever had.

873

(21 replies, posted in Episodes)

I'm Slytherin—I can't tell if I should be pleased or disappointed.

No. The entire film is building to the ending it has—she's conquered her fear, grief and guilt and is ready to live again. Not only would that ending be totally uncinematic and cruel, it would be completely the wrong ending for the film. The reason The Mist's ending works so well is that the whole film is building to that hopelessness. Gravity is not.

875

(21 replies, posted in Episodes)

Something interesting I read after the malariathon--apparently Tim Roth was their first choice for Snape, but he backed out to do Planet of the Apes. I can see him doing a pretty good Snape, though I don't know if his voice is right for the part.