1

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

After seeing it in IMAX 3D on a rare 15/70mm print, I just rewatched the 3-minute Khan monologue in the cell that is the key to the entire plot and it makes no sense at all. Virtually every sentence Khan says in that monologue contradicts the previous one.

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Why does Khan exist? To bring peace or wage war? How can 300 year olds be superior? Why did he freeze himself 300 years ago? Waiting for peace? But his job was to bring peace? Why was he alone awoken? Does he or does he not have access to his crew? If the admiral used the crew as leverage, how was Khan able to smuggle them into torpedoes? If Khan believed his crew dead, why did Khan transport to Kronos if that was the admiral's plan? Khan said his plan to smuggle his crew in the torpedoes was discovered, so does the admiral know the bodies are in there? How did Khan let himself be the Admiral's bitch, when he's so superior and easily able to take everyone else out? Whaaaat? And so on

2

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Dave wrote:

Seriously, that gif should become an institution.

Anyway, coming to this one as a non-geek the film held together much more than Iron Man. I know they've flipped a lot of stuff on its head, but that doesn't bother me at all.

Also, I've no experience of the villain before seeing this picture.

You chaps can all sit around and collectively fellate Tony Stark's 3rd solo film, I'll be sitting I over here with a huge box of popcorn, watching new Start Trek, and grinning from ear to ear.

The real villain is Damon Lindelof who repeatedly demonstrates he's completely scientifically illiterate, and is allergic to bringing in a science PhD as consultant, and therefore should be kept far away from the hard SF genre.

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-b … -darkness/

3

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog … -jj-abrams

The sky-house in Oblivion, shot by Claudio Miranda (who won the Best Cinematography for Life of Pi) on a 4K Sony F65 is worth taking a look at.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18lcsh9fzrnewjpg/original.jpg

5

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

BBQ wrote:
avatar wrote:

One thing it didn't cover,

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did Khan take out one or two Klingon Birds of Prey with a hand-held gun? Did I see correctly? Tell me that didn't happen.

Luke Nieto wrote:

I'm pretty sure he's just super-strong and that wasn't technically a hand-held weapon... even though he was handling it with his hands. But still, yeah. That happened.

Nope, that did not happen.

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Those were pretty clearly not Birds of Prey, they were the equivalent of scout/patrol ships or shuttles. They bore a resemblance in their design, probably as both a nod to the fans but also because usually a race's smaller ships look like their larger ships. That isn't out of the ordinary in Trek.

As for taking them out, clearly the bigger weapon he had was not a normal hand-held weapon. At the time I remember thinking that it was probably a smaller ship's phaser or something that he modified to use the way he did. Plus, they established how powerful it was, and it wasn't out of the realm of believably in the Trek universe. It fried a handful of people, and it tore a hole in a shuttle/patrol ship, causing it to go down (it didn't make the whole thing explode in mid air or anything).

If, in actual reality, you can down a helicopter or low-flying plane with an RPG (a hand-held weapon), then it's not the most ridiculous thing in the world to think that Kahn could down a shuttle/patrol ship with something he could carry.

Unless you're arguing that they ships "would/should" have had shields to defend against it, which is getting a little into the weeds of absurdity. But even then, there's no established moment where ships that small have shields anyways -- the shuttle in the beginning didn't have them (I think), the ship the Crew took to Kronos didn't have them, so again it's perfectly believable that the Klingon scouts didn't have them.

*shrug*

Again, there are enough legitimate criticisms to not waste time nitpicking things like this.

Well, that's a relief. I can sleep easier tonight.

6

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

BBQ wrote:

There certainly are enough legitimate criticisms about this movie to not waste time bickering about most of the stuff in that article. I get that it's supposed to be a joke article, but reading it, it seemed pretty quickly to me that it actually was just a joke of an article.

One thing it didn't cover,

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did Khan take out one or two Klingon Birds of Prey with a hand-held gun? Did I see correctly? Tell me that didn't happen.

7

(131 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Lamer wrote:
everythingshiny wrote:

The implication that Americans can just fly around the world, spreading their democracy and fixing the world

Isn’t that what’s happening right now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_atta … Statistics

If Iron Patriot existed in the real world he'd be blowing shit up in the middle east right now.

Wow, almost 900 civilians inadvertently killed. Dunno if that's fixing things or creating even more enemies in aggrieved family members and survivors. With the capture/kill program casualties added to the drones, (Nobel Peace Prize winning) Obama will be in four-figure territory and may even get near 9/11 figures by the end of his presidency. Nevertheless, that's a relatively low innocent body count for a post-WWII US president. Most of his predecessors had far more blood on their hands.

8

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Holden wrote:

Spoilers, obviously, but hilarious:

http://io9.com/star-trek-into-darkness- … -508927844

Yep, good one - that sums up most of the issues.

Also...

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why did they need to get the ships aligned when they had suit-thrusters anyway? In 2001 or Sunshine, the airlock-to-airlock manoeuvre required alignment, but not here.

I know, it doesn't take much to rationalize any explanation for any plot-hole or inconsistency or inexplicable behaviour, but still.

9

(22 replies, posted in Episodes)

Faldor wrote:

Would you guys be interested in doing an episode on behind the scenes docs like Hearts of Darkness ? What makes the good ones stand out from the crowd?

Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott and David Fincher do the most comprehensive 'feature-length' behind the scenes docos. LOTR is the gold-standard for all bonus material.

Criteria for stand-outs:
1. Honesty in owning up to failures e.g. Alien Quadrilogy boxset extras.
2. Comprehensiveness e.g. give the DP an extended interview or commentary track if deserved.
3. Actually learning things, rather than just puff-pieces where 'everyone had a good time working with each other'.

10

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Amazing that the budget was $190M - with no A-list cast, no big sets to build, no international filming locations, nothing much practical, no epic army battles, no CG creatures, and only a 2-hour runtime. The VFX budget must have soaked up most of that.

To be honest, I can't say that it looked like a $190M picture. It looked more like half that.

11

(131 replies, posted in Off Topic)

$1B+ and rising.

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Brace yourself for Iron Man 4,5,6,7...

12

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Trey wrote:

Really, it's Prometheus again....Into Darkness deserves the same treatment.  If anything, this Trek is even more Written By A Kid than Prometheus.

Only Phantom Menace and Transformers 2 belong in the lowest circle of hell with Prometheus. This Star Trek film was just out of same sausage-factory as all the other Marvel/DC or recent summer blockbusters, with the same quality control. No more, no less. It ticked all the boxes. It'll ultimately earn 2X-3X its budget to get another formulaic forgettable sequel greenlit.

13

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Trey wrote:

Speaking of whom:

Damon Lindelof admits the Star Trek underwear scene was "gratuitous"

Now if we can just get him to admit the same about the rest of the movie...

It was hardly a "scene". 1...2 seconds max? Should have been more of it. It's the punch-ups that are gratuitous and over the top. 10 minutes of unrealistic indestructible punch-ups and 2 seconds of underwear flash - that's American mentality. If it was European production, those would be reversed.

14

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

redxavier wrote:

I've found that a lot of the problems with these sorts of contemporary action movies stem from an apparent lack of questioning in the writing room. No-one seems to have asked why such and such is happening. And perhaps more importantly, no-one seems to have asked whether the same effect can be achieved by other 'better' means that don't undermine story or character. On the face of it, there's nothing wrong with most of the stuff that happens in this and the previous Trek, it's just that the actions preceding and leading to that moment or scene aren't efficiently thought out or drafted. For instance, there's nothing wrong with

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Spock being in a volcano and the Enterprise having to rescue him
, it's just the set up for that isn't done as well it could be. No-one appears to have sat down and thought about why all the bits are the way they are and how they fit together to arrive at X, and analysed the problems that arise from doing so.

It's no wonder the story does things that feel arbitary, the construction of the story is arbitary.

Maybe this questioning does all occur and it simply gets dismissed and/or ignored...

Now that we're in the 20-teens and the PG-13 tentpole for this era is becoming well-defined, we're seeing that all these movies have the same basic structure and same basic flaws.

The ratio of action to humour to romance to spectacle to exposition is roughly the same. The $100M+ budgets are roughly the same which get spent on cast : FX : production in a certain formula. The returns of $500M-$1B are virtually guaranteed for the brand franchise instalments. Scriptwriting never seems to get a high priority, and so plot holes abound. But plot holes don't prevent box office, because you only notice them after you've spent your money.

The metaphor I reach for is the iphone and the changeable skin. The underlying movie is always the same, but the skin is different. Guy Pearce wants to be a war-profiteer in Iron Man 3. Marcus wants to be war profiteer in STID. Avengers and Dark Knight Rises ends the same way, with a bomb being carried off. Skyfall, STID, ST2009, TDKR and a million others have some villain that's been aggrieved in the past and now 'demands satisfaction'. The last 10 minutes will always involve a WWF punch-up.

Final Draft should have a PG-13 Tentpole template.

JJ Abrahms seems to have internalised 'the Hollywood PG-13 Tentpole Formula', His temperament is well suited to Star Wars. They'll be teenagers running, shoot'n, jump', fight'n against a background of sparks and 'splosions for 120 minutes. Everyone will breathe a sigh of relief that it's not as bad as the Prequels. There'll be predictable nods to the original series with repeated catch phrases, just like Star Trek did. The hard core nerds will whine about breaches of canon. At the end of the day, we'll have seen it all before.

I think someone on this forum nicknamed these types of films "McMovies", and that's an appropriate phrase.

15

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Comparing Blakes' 7 teleport to Star Trek's transporter....

The rules for Blakes' 7 were more defined and rigid. 1. You needed a teleport bracelet. 2. You needed to be within close range, usually low orbit above the destination point, implied as line of sight.

With Star Trek, anything goes.
Blake's 7 still found contrivances to intermittently lose teleport capability to ratchet up tension (e.g. a crewmember would lose their bracelet, or an enemy ship approaching meant they had to move out of orbit and lose teleport capability). But the rules were consistent, adhered to, and made conceptual sense. With Star Trek, it feels entirely arbitrary.
The scriptwriters don't want beaming to be possible? Just say 'too much radiation' or 'moving too rapidly' or 'too much interference' or 'not enough energy' or whatever. The scriptwriters want beaming to other side of the galaxy... sure, just insert techno-babble.

Why even have space ships if you can beam anywhere, anytime?

16

(269 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Some questions / points:

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1. Why did one stun shot knock out Khan on the bridge of the dreadnought for over a minute, but during the climactic punch-up, Uhura's many stun shots were brushed off like mosquito bites?
2. Why did detectors only detect one life form on Kronos, when there were heaps of Klingons?
3. What are the rules of the transporter? Every single time there's a transporter situation, the rules are different. It can't transport because of speed, distance, radiation, interference, lack of power, shields, etc. At other times, it can transport into a warp ship from across the galaxy, or between any two points in the universe.
4. Ditto for warp drive. Sometimes they can, sometimes they can't. Whatever the scriptwriters need at that time. Likewise, "Starfleet Protocol says we can't do this." Other times: "fuck the rules, we'll do whatever we want." In summary, all these things (e.g. warp, transporter, protocol, malfunctioning technology) are just arbitrary constraints upon behaviour, like a knob that can be twiddled on demand. And it feels really ARBITRARY. Oh so now they can't do this. Now they can. Now they can't. Whatever.
5. The technology and design aesthetic of the bridge don't look anything like the brewery down below.
6. Why continually have to run between the bridge and the transporter room? Inefficient design. Build a smaller transporter section on the bridge.
7. Star Trek 1966 was ahead of the Zeitgeist, but Star Trek 2009 is not ahead of its time. Just the same ol' no-stakes indestructible PG-13 runn'n fight'n shoot'n 'splosions as every other tent-pole.
8. Can't they just remote-pilot a 'cold fusion' device into the volcano? Or beam it down from orbit? Why did they have to park the ship underwater? Wouldn't the natives have seen it entering the water?
9. Why does the captain repeatedly have to stay on the bridge while the rest evacuate as if they ship can't do anything on its own? That's such a cliche. "Oh no, don't sacrifice yourself." "But I have to." But it doesn't matter anyway, because all main characters get saved/resurrected one way or the other. So stop pretending this scene is so tense and emotional, because in two minutes, everything will be okay again.
10. Khan from Wrath of Khan was far nastier. PG-13 tends to water-down the drama.

17

(20 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Trey wrote:
avatar wrote:

Question 3. You're ordering for you and your partner at a restaurant. You say to the waiter... "and [blank] will have the salad". How do you refer to your partner?

"Sweetpea"  is acceptable.  If it's 1912.

http://www.pinkfive.com/images/cal.jpg

and the fuck-machine across the table that I'm going to destroy later will have the salad

18

(20 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Question 1.
What's the collective term for adult sons and daughters? That 90-year old has eight great-grandchildren, 4 grandchildren, and two..... children? But the 'children' are 70 years old?

Question 2. We got through all of 2000-2009 without agreeing on a term for the decade. Are we in the twenty-teens?

Question 3. You're ordering for you and your partner at a restaurant. You say to the waiter... "and [blank] will have the salad". How do you refer to your partner? Your sexual/married relationship is none of the waiter's business. You can't say their name as they haven't been introduced to the waiter. My friend? My partner? She?

19

(131 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Dave wrote:

But that's a false resolution. We know that the suit is what's important, it's shown time and time again. Without a suit, there is *no iron man*, Tony turning up in a sports car to fight aliens achieves nothing.

The movie doesn't understand what the core of the character is about. This is a big part of my frustration.

His resourcefulness couldn't even help him escape from some cable ties. The suit literally flies in to the rescue like a D.E.M. not once but several times. But the movie is half-hearted here - most of the time it's a partially functioning suit, a prototype, a glove only, not fully charged, the flight power not working (like the Millennium Falcon's hyperdrive malfunctioning).

20

(131 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Blakes 7 had a similar problem (old British 1970s SF). The Liberator ship they had was too powerful. It could outrun, outgun any Federation ship, so the writers had to concoct situations to make them vulnerable.

21

(131 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Dave wrote:
Doctor Submarine wrote:

He doesn't need the suit. The suit needs him.

I promised myself I'd be nice.

The end sequence of the film suggests this isn't the case. Without the suit, piloted by him or not, Tony is of no use in a stand-up fight. His girlfriend had to save his life. War machine had to save the president. Without the suit, Tony is just Q.

He can trying saving the world with nothing but wise-crack'n sass.

22

(131 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Doctor Submarine wrote:

But the whole point of the movie is that he's Iron Man whether or not he wears the suit! The movie was constructed to keep him out of the suit for as much time as possible, so that we understand what makes Tony Stark so special in the first place. He doesn't need the suit. The suit needs him.

Well I look forward to Iron Man 4: Noth'n but Tony Snark. That'll take the franchise in a new ballsy direction.

23

(131 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Trey wrote:

soulless McSpectacles

Nicely phrased. Totally unmemorable. Like Technoir said earlier, I can see no reason to revisit this - there were no must-see scenes due to VFX, cinematography, direction, story, production design, or any other reason.

And it seemed like Black realised that with the suit on, Iron Man is too invulnerable, so every BS reason was concocted to keep him from using the full suit. They've got a Catch 22 situation for future instalments. Use the suit, and suck all the tension out, don't use the suit, and it's not Iron Man.

24

(18 replies, posted in Off Topic)

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/inside-oblivion/

25

(18 replies, posted in Off Topic)

These clowns have a go...

http://redlettermedia.com/half-in-the-b … -of-salem/