1

(164 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Anyone else been watching Kingdom? New series on DirecTV has just finished its first season (10 episodes). Already been picked up for 2 more, it's set in Venice CA and centres around MMA fighters. Not the usual thing I would watch but the casting piqued my interest so I watched the pilot, and quickly became absolutely addicted. Best thing I've seen all year and just got better and better every week. Some of the best writing I've seen in years. Highly recommend.

Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSoP1AH7h3M

2

(17 replies, posted in Episodes)

My favourite movie of all time. Not perfect, not even the 'best' movie I've ever seen, but I just love it so hard.

Anyway. Great commentary, even if it did go a wee bit off topic a few times smile  I love the park bench scene, that's just golden, and it really resonated with me at the time (I would've been maybe 20 when I first saw this movie). That sentiment of getting out and doing things, making mistakes and having experiences because just reading about them isn't the same.

As for the infamous it’s not your fault scene, I feel like you were right when you said it's something Sean says because it's something he has found out for himself, that he thinks Will needs to hear. But he can see that Will doesn't believe him, so he keeps saying it. And Will brushes it off as more psychobabble, but it's not, and Sean keeps going until Will breaks down. And says "I'm so sorry." That's the clincher.

I love that moment, and it’s kind of a shame that it became such a cliché and made so much fun of, although it's also (as evident in your commentary!) very easy to do. I just watched the trailer for Kenneth Branagh's upcoming Cinderella... spot the it's not your fault moment smile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYPXeNzpDJE

3

(20 replies, posted in Episodes)

I love Aladdin, but for me his most memorable roles were Dead Poets' Society and Good Will Hunting.

Good Will Hunting has been my favourite movie ever since I first saw it, and remains so to this day. Not because I think it's the best movie ever, it has its flaws and there are parts I don't love, but man, something about that movie just gets me every single time.

"Oh Captain, my Captain" somehow sums it up best for me. So very, very sad.

4

(11 replies, posted in Episodes)

I'm not sure that I agree that Titanic had no theme outside of "do what you can to survive while the boat sinks". It had a pretty strong throughline about not accepting your prescribed fate, with both Jack and Rose making active decisions to change the course of their lives, and then Rose going through with that after Jack died, making the choice not to go back to her former life.

5

(169 replies, posted in Episodes)

Just randomly listening back to your first podcast on Episode I, and went to find the Casting Anakin video. They had Michael Angarano in their top 3 and didn't cast him?! He's the only one of the 3 kids that's still acting, and he was fantastic as a kid too. He didn't give the best read in the clip they showed, but neither did Jake Lloyd, and Michael went on to be great as a kid in Almost Famous, amongst other things. Although he probably looks back now with a sigh of relief that he dodged that bullet...maybe.

6

(23 replies, posted in Episodes)

I've seen The Searchers for a film class at University, which I only vaguely remember. It was selected by our lecturer because it didn't conform to some of the stereotypes of westerns, but we hadn't watched other westerns prior, so I think the effect was somehow lost on us.

I also lived in the tiny village in Ireland where The Quiet Man was filmed for almost a year, so I've seen that one. I'd never heard of it until I moved there, but it's a large part of Cong's tourism appeal for Americans. That and the castle, which obviously was there when the movie was filmed, but is never seen in the film. Which is quite funny because at times you know that if you just tilted the camera left, or if they kept walking around that corner, you'd see a huge castle within spitting distance. http://www.ashfordcastle.com/index.html

7

(60 replies, posted in Episodes)

I think the author just thought Dauntless was so COOL! and BADASS! and her excitement over the whole wearing dark clothes! and leaping off moving trains! and getting tattoos! irritated me. I don't know, I don't remember much about the story now because I read it so fast and disliked it so much that my brain can only dredge up random pieces of information about the story. I do remember one character being so EVIL! that it took me entirely out of the story. Write in a villain, by all means, but give them some kind of humanity/sympathy/motivation beyond mustache-twirling, please. I actually feel that is especially important in YA fiction. The YA phase of one's life is the time when you learn about life not being black and white, so YA books that present the world that way drive me mad.

The world of Divergent made no sense to me, which was a major block for me. (And Tris was annoying, and Four was such blatant teengirlnip that I was quickly bored by him. He's the typical Bad Boy With A Heart Of Gold that we've seen soooooo many times before. Never any suspense there as to a) where he came from and b) whether he'd fall in love with Tris or not.)

But I shouldn't be too critical because writing is hard. I am trying to write a YA dystopian novel just as a response to this, and The Hunger Games, because I've pinpointed mostly what I am not seeing and what I want to see, so rather than just ragging on existing works, I figured I should write what I want to read. But it turns out world-building is super hard, so maybe I should cut Veronica Roth some slack. (Maybe not. She can go cry into her giant stack of money and just not read her Amazon.com reviews at all.)

8

(73 replies, posted in Episodes)

fireproof78 wrote:

It makes me want to be able to sit down with Stephanie Meyer and be able to ask questions.

Hah, yeah I'd be interested in that too. Ditto Suzanne Collins.

9

(20 replies, posted in Episodes)

Re-listening to this commentary, I'm going to give another shameless plug to Twisted, for anyone who hasn't seen it but is interested in a Wicked-style Aladdin parody. They touch on so many things that you mention in your commentary, including the "cut off your ear because they don't like your face" line, a running gag that nobody understands the Genie's pop culture quotes, and a hilarious callback at the end to the opening scene with the old guy telling the tale. Not to mention secondary storyline about Disney vs Pixar, and their opening number "Dream a Little Harder" that includes the lyric "If you're good and you're attractive, no need to be proactive, good things will just happen to you!" which pretty much encapsulates a lot of the Disney oeuvre.

The trailer is here, the whole thing is on YouTube. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgINfwAZNAY

10

(60 replies, posted in Episodes)

Bathilda wrote:

While I do really like the article I linked to, I kind of subscribe more to Holly Black's theory that a female protagonists by nature almost can't be a Mary Sue because, as she describes, a Mary Sue in the original sense of the term is a character who usurps the MC and magically solves the big problems while appearing to be beautiful and awesome and loved by everyone in a way that warps the MC's story and probably becomes the love interest of the main guy/gal. If the "Mary Sue" IS the main character than she can't warp her own story and any love interest present will just be there because the story revolves around her anyway.

Anyway, I'm a bit afraid to ask, but why do you think Tris is a Mary Sue?

That's fair, and I'm inclined to agree actually, if a Mary Sue is defined as a character in fanfiction who doesn't exist in the original story, and is written in by a fan as a wishfulfillment character. Under that definition, Tris isn't one because, as you say, she is her own story's protagonist.

If we are defining Mary Sue as a character who is impossibly perfect, that's where my read on Tris comes in. Although I will firstly say that I only read the first Divergent book, and I read it fast, and I don't remember all that much about it. So perhaps that skews my read of it, and I may be wrong in what I've taken away from it. But I could never see for myself what was special about Tris other than the fact that everyone seemed to think she was special. Sure, she's "Divergent" because she can't be sorted into one or another specific faction, but that never read to me like a surprise - I couldn't fit myself into one of those factions either. The whole idea of being entirely this, or entirely that, was so insane to me that I never really bought into the world in the first place. (I think they go more into this in the later books, but the first book should've helped me along with that IMO, and it didn't.) So although in a way Tris' "divergence" made me more inclined to relate to her, I find her profoundly unlikeable so it didn't really help. I never understood what Four saw in her. For me, when I read it and I started thinking about how to "Fix" it, a la FIYH, I wanted her to actually show some kind of manifestation of her divergence in the way she behaved. Because the story says "she's not just fearless, she's also smart, and optimistic, and caring" (or whatever the personality traits are supposed to be, I forget specifics) but we don't really SEE her being those things. Maybe because it's in first person we are supposed to believe her when she says she is/feels that way, but.... I just didn't get it. So I felt like I was being told "Tris is awesome!" when I didn't agree. Which was why she felt to me like a Mary Sue character - one who the author thought was awesome, but never really gave me a reason to agree. Show, don't tell, right? smile

Also, all of the story twists were blindingly predictable, so nothing in the story really worked for me on any level. I was profoundly bored by it. However I know lots of people loved it and more power to them, I guess. At least it steered away from the abusive possessiveness of Twilight.

I wrote my ideas about this down after I finished reading it, but I haven't got them to hand. Perhaps I'll try and find them tonight and see if I can be more coherent. Also I'm at work so I don't have time to edit this, hopefully it makes some kind of sense.

11

(73 replies, posted in Episodes)

johnpavlich wrote:

Besides, correct me if I'm wrong (and I do apologize if I am) but isn't everythingshiny a Woman? If these discussions were truly an example of "mansplaining", she would have dropped out of the conversation or at the most, been shouted down or something. Typically, that doesn't really happen here, anyway.

Hah, yes I am and I am thoroughly enjoying this conversation. I don't feel "mansplained" to or shouted down at all, personally. Believe me, I've been shouted at before (usually by my sister, because I'm often not strident enough in my beliefs to suit her taste) and this is much different.

I don't like Twilight because it disturbs me that it shows an abusive, controlling relationship as something pure and romantic and to-be-striven-for. I consider myself a feminist, and I understand that some people do love the story, and that's fine. My co-counselors and I at summer camp spent some time talking to our campers about the content, acting it out with rag dolls (gotta do something in Arts & Crafts, there are only so many friendship bracelets one can make) and having them re-imagine scenes with Edward described as being ugly, instead of gorgeous. Amazing how something romantic can turn offputting in a moment as soon as you reverse all of Edward's adjectives! I wasn't trying to stop them from liking Twilight, and some of them do still enjoy it, but we wanted them to think about the content instead of just soaking it in without any critical thought. (And many of the girls who, as 14-16 year olds, loved Twilight, are now horrified by it.)

There was a scene around the end of the second season (I think) of The Vampire Diaries (TV series, not the books) where Elena tells Stefan that she doesn't want to become a vampire, because although she loves him right now, she's sixteen years old and she can't be sure that she'll love him forever. She wants a chance to grow up and change her mind, and have a family, and be normal. And he accepts that. (Sadly the show stole all of Elena's agency in later seasons and rendered itself unwatchable, but that moment was a big middle finger to Twilight and I for one loved it.)

Ewing wrote:

I understand criticizing a film or show through structural analysis, aesthetic criticism, genre criticism, auteur theory, and so on, because those have to do with the actual filmmaking and storytelling. I may not agree with it, but at least there is a degree of objectivity and it's trying to better understand how films and shows work. I can't take social criticism of media seriously. All of it boils down to the author projecting their own political and social ideologies onto the work. There is no objectivity or true criticism of the piece, it's just a soapbox for the critic to explain why something sucks because it doesn't cater to their desires and values. It's film criticism for people who don't understand the nuances of filmmaking or storytelling. It is the absolute laziest way to critique any work.

I respectfully disagree. For me, social commentary is one of the most compelling and interesting parts of any story. I don't really care much about how it's shot or what genre it is in, as long as it speaks to me on some level. I don't mean I have to directly relate to it (though it sure helps) but I have to see some kind of bigger picture in it for it to mean something to me. But that's what I'm interested in and that's why I write, to explore those kinds of ideas.

12

(60 replies, posted in Episodes)

Great links, thanks. I wrote a Mary Sue fanfic (a Buffy one) when I was in high school. I printed it out for my friends to read (fanfiction.net didn't exist then). I look back now and cringe, but I think even at the time I knew it was a Mary Sue, though I didn't have the term for it. It was my way of putting myself into the story, but I never heralded it as anything other than a silly thing I did for fun, and a way of practicing writing dialogue.

Twilight is a Mary Sue, as explained in the article that Bathilda linked. Divergent is also a Mary Sue, in my opinion, though a slightly more interesting one (slightly, because it involves a dystopian world and a series of action sequences, which are very contrived and silly, but are action sequences nonetheless).

The Hunger Games, on the other hand, is a story with a female heroine who gains and actually earns the respect of others. (In the first book anyway. Not so much later on when she loses all her agency and frustratingly never stands up and demands it back, instead being inexplicably content to be unconscious during all of the major plot developments.)

13

(364 replies, posted in Episodes)

I'm keen for a commentary on "Frozen".

14

(60 replies, posted in Episodes)

Phi wrote:

I think there is an underfilled market for good new fiction for women. See the success of The Fault in Our Stars, both movie and book. The Hunger Games is also pretty good (could be better...especially the ending). I haven't read Divergent so I can't judge it, but the movie was poorly reviewed.

I read Divergent after a teenage girl friend recommended it to me after I complained to her at length about The Hunger Games. She swore that Divergent was far better, so I gave it a shot. It's not. In my estimation, Divergent sits between The Hunger Games (okay) and Twilight (awful). It's not as offensive as Twilight, but the author really struggled to understand her own ideas, her heroine was too much of a Mary Sue for me, and the action all seemed utterly pointless. I like my heroines flawed, and for their actions to have consequences. (Katniss fits the first criteria, but arguably not the second, particularly later in the series).

I never read the remaining Divergent books as I struggled with the first one, but I read several reviews on Amazon of the last book in the series, which were interesting - people were very divided on it and there were well over 1,000 reviews saying that the finale destroyed the entire series for them.

I recently read The Fault in Our Stars, which was pretty good. It kept me interested while I read it, but it's not one I would probably ever bother to go back to, and I haven't seen the film.

15

(38 replies, posted in Episodes)

Invid wrote:

How late were the songs added? Mulan is an interesting case in that after "I'll Make a Man Out of You", the songs end and it becomes an action movie. Almost as if the creators wanted it that way from the beginning, but Disney wanted it to have at least SOME music as they transitioned out of the musical biz. Tangled was a case where, iirc, there were changes to try and make the it less girly, something boys would want to see. If the movie didn't start as a musical, or if the songs were in and out over the course of its development, they may have become less integral to the story.

Good point. I don't know the answer to that one.

"Frozen" is another one where the songs end halfway through the movie. But then again, so is "Aladdin", once you get past "A Whole New World", right? And there's not really any big villain number.

Bathilda wrote:

I believe it's actually an "I am" song in which nothing is supposed to change. You just establish the character and where they're at in life and stuff like that. I prefer "I want" songs because, kind of like you said, they point to where you're going instead of where the character has been, but *shrug* maybe they wanted to try something different. I did think it was a pretty fun number to watch with a catchy tune, though.

Hmm that's true. I'm not very well versed on any of this musicals theory, I just know what I glean from watching a lot of them!

"Each showtune must serve as a dramatic element in a play or film by helping to develop character and/or move the story forward. As much as everyone loves a showstopper, it has to work as a cohesive part of the storytelling process – otherwise the only thing it really stops is audience interest. The most memorable show songs tend to gel around three kinds of character experiences –

    Transition - a moment of change or conversion.

    Realization - reaching an insight or new level of understanding.

    Decision - after long wrangling, a character finally makes up his or her mind."

http://www.musicals101.com/score.htm#Types

Do the more successful Disney musicals subscribe more closely to the form?

16

(73 replies, posted in Episodes)

Bathilda wrote:

Ah, well, I'm glad that's what stuck out to you as that was exactly my point. For me symbolism outweighs prose. We are free to agree to disagree at this point, I guess.

Well yes, but... my problems with Twilight do not stem from the prose, but from the content and the overall message, which I find disturbing. So his argument that "People say it sucks just because the prose isn't brilliant" is not a valid argument for me to get behind, personally.

I am intrigued by this, because clearly it is phenomenally popular, and I'm interested in why. What boxes does it tick? Do people actually buy into that kind of crazy stalker romance? I guess having an extremely jealous and clingy boyfriend when I was 15 set a low tolerance for me in that regard, but I find Edward increasingly repulsive as the series goes on.

Incidentally, my reaction to his casting in Harry Potter was "But Cedric was meant to be hot!" so I guess it's just personal taste and other people are seeing something different. Which is fine.

everythingshiny wrote:

And if we're sharing YouTube videos about Twilight, I like the "Alex Reads Twilight" ones. They're hysterical.

Just be aware he was recently implicated in a sex scandal and his videos about Twilight are now looked down on by a lot of former fans. So view/share with caution.

Thanks for the head's up on that one. I did a quick search on it and as this was the only article I had time to read http://www.dailydot.com/fandom/alex-day-sexual-assault/ I don't really feel educated enough on the situation to comment at this time.

17

(73 replies, posted in Episodes)

I listened to the podcast you linked in the other forum, from the guy who wrote "Spotlight". I was hoping, as an author of YA fiction myself, to get some insight from the interview about what it is that he felt made the story work. I think I just wasted half an hour of my life listening to someone wail on about how everyone is wrong to disrespect it because Stephenie Meyer is really good, even though her prose is lacking but her allegory is interesting. I disagree.

I read the first Twilight book at summer camp (I was a counselor) because my campers were all reading it and talking about it, so I felt that I should have some perspective on it. I read the first book in about 48 hours, including reading under my covers with a flashlight while the girls were sleeping. It was a very easy book to read and I digested it quite quickly. I knew where the story was going, but was along for the journey. I went straight into New Moon and found it a trial because Bella's moping was SO irritating, but I really enjoyed Jacob's character. I moved on to Eclipse and I remember almost nothing from that book so I guess that sums it up for me. I do recall reading Breaking Dawn (I think that either came out during the same summer, or the following summer) and laughing and groaning in equal share as I read it. By that point I was finding it offensive and another counselor and I spent some time reading portions out to our campers and discussing how controlling and abusive Edward was. Jacob's character went in that direction too, and the whole fourth book was just laughably bad.

I do remember discussing Breaking Dawn with the girls prior to its release, and saying that I hoped Bella became a vampire, lost her self-control and killed Jacob's father (he's in a wheelchair, he's a sitting duck). Which would change the focus of the battle between Edward and Jacob over who 'deserves' Bella to who is going to be stuck with her / take responsibility for what they've turned her into. Of course that didn't happen, Bella turned into a perfectly self-controlled vampire and had the world's most perfect baby, and I gagged and threw the book on the floor.

For the record, I haven't seen the movies and I think Robert Pattinson is incredibly unappealing. I have long subscribed to the "mop" theory as explained on your podcast - call it Edward and they will swoon, no matter what it looks like. (Notably,Stephenie Meyer said she envisaged Edward as looking like Henry Cavill, back when he was in "The Count of Monte Cristo". Now that one I can get on board with.)

I'm with the FIYH podcast on Twilight, there is very little in the podcast that I disagree with - except the assertion that the books get better as the series goes on. I would argue the complete opposite.

And if we're sharing YouTube videos about Twilight, I like the "Alex Reads Twilight" ones. They're hysterical.

18

(38 replies, posted in Episodes)

Sorry to drag this back to "Tangled" but I was thinking about it again recently, having just re-watched "Aladdin" and "Mulan" (and a couple of other musicals) and I think what I found difficult about it was that the songs don't progress the story at all.

If you take "Be a Man" as an example, SO MUCH happens during that song. It takes you from point A to point B during the song, in a rousing and exciting way. None of the songs in "Tangled" seem to do that. Even your basic I Want style song should take you from not knowing the character to knowing who they are, what their life is like, and what they want / need to change. In "Tangled", the I Want number is about how she wants to get out of her tower. That's kind of a no-brainer, isn't it? We all recognise her as Rapunzel... I feel like all of the songs are weirdly static in "Tangled" and they don't move the story along.

I'm just flinging ideas around here but it's something I've been mulling over. Any further thoughts?

19

(60 replies, posted in Episodes)

So when are you going to do Frozen?

20

(37 replies, posted in Episodes)

I love Jesus Christ Superstar. Judas has all the best songs in that too.

21

(37 replies, posted in Episodes)

Good to know that "The Book of Eli" is not a movie I should bother seeing. It sounds pretty awful.

On the subject of the Bible, and for anyone with secular humanist leanings, I cannot recommend this book enough: http://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Name-Was-Jud … 003T0FMIS/

"My Name Was Judas" - C.K. Stead (2006)

"My Name Was Judas" purports to give an alternative account of the life of Jesus, as witnessed by his childhood friend Judas who didn't, in this telling, hang himself (or even betray Jesus in the first place) being guilty only of skepticism where his fellow disciples were not. In this telling, after the crucifixion Judas lived to a ripe old age and finally got to tell his story in his dotage. (- Amazon reviewer's words, not mine, as they were more succinct)

I recently re-read it and was reminded of it when you brought up mention of the fig tree. Here is that scene, according to this book:

Jesus, in the lead, marched like a general through his camp, so preoccupied with thoughts of tomorrow’s battle he failed to notice his foot soldiers. In the garden at the back of the house there was a fig tree. Seeing it, Jesus declared he was hungry and wanted fruit.

It was spring, not the time of year for figs or any other fruit, but I supposed he must be exhausted and confused. He stared up into the branches, finding only leaves. I expected the recognition of his mistake to strike him, and that he would laugh at himself, but not at all – he seethed with rage. The tree had denied him. It would be punished. He cursed it. Let it never bear fruit again! Let it die!

I looked at my fellow disciples. They were avoiding one another’s eyes. No one spoke. Jesus set off again, still black with rage, and we followed, an unhappy band at the end of what should have been a day of triumph.

It is not available in the USA (shocker) but can be purchased internationally and as an e-book.

I loved it, as someone who grew up attending Catholic school, but for whom faith never really "took". According to the author: "I see Judas as a much-maligned character, and in my novel he doesn't betray Christ literally. He simply doesn't believe in his divinity."

A fascinating read. Highly recommend.

22

(38 replies, posted in Episodes)

The "Frozen" thing baffles me too. I liked the movie, and I really liked "Let It Go", because Idina Menzel. "First Time in Forever" is pretty good too, but casting Jonathon Groff and giving him basically nothing to sing was sacrilegious.

I mean it's fine, but it's no Aladdin.

23

(38 replies, posted in Episodes)

Just listening to this now. I haven't seen the movie but it seems interesting, so I'll have to look it up.

Teague, what are your thoughts on the music for "Tangled"? I was re-watching it the other week and started out saying "The problem with this movie is that there's only one song" (because I only remembered "At Last I See the Light"). Halfway through the song my roommate said "There are lots of songs in this." I said "Yeah...but can you remember any of them? What was the melody of the song that JUST finished?" We honestly couldn't recall. So I looked at the credits afterwards to find out who wrote the songs, and was shocked that it was Alan Menken, because usually he's great. What happened there? Is it just me that can't remember any songs from that movie or did Menken drop the ball?

24

(44 replies, posted in Off Topic)

It's pretty clearly a movie about creativity and the way we build narratives. That is exactly its purpose.

That's exactly what I got out of it. I loved it. Admittedly, in the small theatre I saw it in, my friends and I laughed harder and louder than the children in the audience, but that's not to say they didn't laugh or enjoy it... They enjoyed the broader humour, but we got the more subtle stuff. I thought it was fantastic, had clear themes without them being preachy or shoved down my throat, and a wonderful message about the importance of creativity . It succeeded as an advertisement for Lego, but in the best possible way. If it encourages kids to go out and buy Lego and build insane things and have wild creative adventures with them, awesome.

25

(30 replies, posted in Episodes)

Great commentary, I love the rewriting ones. And it’d make a pretty sweet musical, so go get on that.

As a side note, as this movie was pre-Firefly so it would’ve definitely been pre-Buffy for Nathan Fillion, because he didn’t come onto Buffy until after Firefly was cancelled. He was in the back half of Season 7.

Oh, and I found it weird too when I went to the US for the first time and encountered homeless people and peoples' attitudes towards them. Not that we don’t have homeless people in New Zealand, because we do, but we don’t have very many, at least not in Wellington. And at least twice in the past 10 years, the death of a homeless person in Wellington has made front page news, not because it was a dramatic or shocking death but simply because both people were well known in the city and it was of interest to people when they passed away.

He’s also right about the religious aspect – in New Zealand politics, if you start going on about religion (of any kind) as part of your campaign you will be quickly marginalised. Whether voters are religious or not, it seems to be a fairly unified consensus that politics and religion have very little to do with one another. Of course there are Christian parties (well, a couple) but nobody takes them very seriously.