Great episode guys. I had the privilege of getting to listen to a good chunk of this one live (first time listening to the live feed ever woo!) before I was unfortunately called away. Finally got to listen to the rest today and it did not disappoint.
Doctor Submarine wrote:I'm willing to concede that her performance in Iron Man 2 isn't very good, but I actually thought she pulled it off in Avengers. The scene where she fakes out Loki is one of my favorite moments in the film.
This is definitely one of my favorite moments too. Upon first watch I was genuinely worried she was falling for it but Joss played me like a fiddle and as a result she ends up as one of my favorite characters and this scene is a standout in a film full of awesome moments.
I have to dispute the point that she was bad in Iron Man 2 though. I will admit to being fan of Ms. Johanson (I like her in Lost in Translation, The Prestige, We Bought a Zoo and, yes, even The Island) so maybe I'm biased but I think the problem with Black Widow in Iron Man 2 is not her performance but the fact that the character is given almost nothing to do and nothing resembling a personal approach to things. In Avengers, despite having to deal with a myriad of other characters, she's still given character touches in every scene she's in (playing the mobsters for fools, trying to hide the fact that she's terrified when she first meets Hulk, etc.). In Iron Man 2 she's told to give Tony some instructions or to walk sexily across the room. I feel like in Iron Man 2 she nails it, she just not given much to nail.
As to the debate on sexualisation that broke out, I'd just like to throw into the ring that I don't think that Male Idealisation and Male Sexualisation are actually mutually exclusive. The comparison that was thrown up is that the men would have to be grabbing their crotches but sexualisation is not a binary thing. Just as Black Widow holding her breasts in her hands would be more overtly sexualised than holding her guns while standing in a "sexy" pose, the fact that the men aren't holding their crotches doesn't mean they're automatically not at all sexualised.
Here's the image that started the controversy.
Try and tell me that the depiction of Thor with his hair blowing in the wind, chest pushed out and the light reflecting of his muscular arms isn't at all sexualised. If Black Widow's pose is considered sexualised because it's designed to show off the parts of her body that are commonly associated with sexualisation, namely her breasts and ass, then how is that not exactly what Thor's pose is doing. If you asked someone to describe a sexy male don't you think they would be describing exactly the sort of elements that image of Thor is emphasizing?
I'm not saying that Black Widow isn't being sexualised, I'm just saying it's more of a two way street than it seems common to acknowledge.