Topic: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

and if you are like me and avoid pre-screening exposure to movies, let me just strongly dissuade anyone from going to see this at the cinema, and making the mistake I made.
It is a lazy, soulless thing with a very poor script, of which 40% is nothing but quick quips back and forth that ultimately have no meaning whatsoever. The cinematography is pretty nice, but the camers operation is constantly jittering to the point where I would gladly have paid for a f*cking tripod with my own money if it had given me one steady shot. Editing pace is not Bourne 2/3 bad, but almost. Lenses used are also like Bourne almost only long tight shots (again, unstabilized) so the action scenes are completely unintelligible, which is exacerbated by the movie cutting between shots in ways where they do not even try to establish geography or situational awareness. They cut from inside car A to outside car B to again inside car A, which makes you think the 2nd shot was outside car A rather than car B. I guarantee if you even try to make sense of it your brain will just automatically zone out for a few seconds. For those of you who remember the car chase in the beginning of Quantum Of Solace, if you like me just cannot stand that, it's more of the same here.

Another weird thing was framing for many scenes was way off, and not entire reels, just some shots. The film was shot Super35, and matted to 2:35 in post. In 2-person shots where 2 people are standing facing the camera, the lower end of the screen cuts them off just by their hips, and the eyes of the 2 people are JUST under the top of the frame. For many closeups, it looks like the camera is trying to impress upon you that the mouth  or nose of the person is the important part, because the eyes keep drifting up and almost out of the frame. The cinema I saw it in also does digital and 3D-projections, so it had to have been a digital screening, thus the projectionist could not have matted it too low. Also some scenes had an important item just at the bottom edge of the frame, which obviously would have been much higher if the projector was showing information too low in the frame.

At this point I almost put AGDTDH next to Taken 2 as some of the worst moviemaking I've seen recently. I wish I had seen the Rotten Tomatoes score beforehand.

If you've sen the film, please share your opinion, I'd love to hear some contrasting views.

EDIT: IMDB stated movie is indeed shot with intended 1.85 aspect ratio. What my cinema was doing I do not know...

Last edited by TechNoir (2013-02-16 22:09:51)

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

The giveaway that it was a turkey was that there were no reviews before it opened, and even Bruce Willis couldn't summon much energy to be enthusiastic. Nevertheless, the Film Show here in Britain reported a 6th Die Hard has been greenlit.

not long to go now...

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

avatar wrote:

The giveaway that it was a turkey was that there were no reviews before it opened,

That and the fact that it was released on Valentines Day. Fox had no faith whatsoever in this film, they knew it was a festering pile of puke while it was getting made. So much so that they got John Moore to edit a 'kid-friendly' version for UK audiences so they could make more money by having the film rated 12A and kids could see it. The whole thing has been a shambles from the get go like hiring Skip Woods to shit out a script that makes you believe that he's never seen any of the previous movies. The same goes for Willis and his interpretation of the main character and he was in the previous movies. This John McClane is so far removed from the original character they may as well have called him Baldy McCrabpants. The marketing campaign of Die Hard was 'he's an easy guy to like but a hard guy to kill' but with the 4th and 5th films he has become a guy you want to tell to cheer the fuck up.

The sixth film better return to its roots, McClane has no more fucking family members to make up with, that is it so let's stick him in a confined space again, put a vest on him and let him grow some hair. Hire someone who actually has some knowledge and affection for the original film and who will not write McClane as an indestructible he-man. The whole point of him in the first three films was that he got hurt. A lot. The McClane of the first film reached a point where he had almost given up and was accepting the fact he was probably going to die, the 4th and 5th films having him act as though this sort of shit happens every day. Treat this franchise like you give a shit, Fox and then maybe the fans will again.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

I think it's too late to fix this franchise. McClane has now fought and defeated terrorists against insurmountable odds FIVE times. You can't bring that character back to his roots. Much as I hate to say it, Die Hard 4 and 5 are the natural evolution of this franchise. The original film should never have had sequels in the first place.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

I would say 'forced' evolution more than natural but fair enough. The third film took a different turn than the first two and that was successful, 4 and 5 went too far in the wrong direction in my opinion.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

avatar wrote:

The giveaway that it was a turkey was that there were no reviews before it opened, and even Bruce Willis couldn't summon much energy to be enthusiastic. Nevertheless, the Film Show here in Britain reported a 6th Die Hard has been greenlit.

Tentatively titled "Dieing Hard another day in a nursing home..." hmm

I went and watched it with my dad, and honestly if you expected some well done piece of cinema then honestly you are bound to be disappointed. As stated, "Die Hard" never should have had sequels. Now Mclain has become almost a superhero

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This movie pretty much proves given the way the car chase ends. Also, the first appearance of Chekov's pool.

The shaky camera work bugged me, enough that I honestly was going to discuss it in the other thread regarding such work. It made my wife physically ill it was so bad during the car chase.

There were some nice character moments, but I I didn't have much invested in this film. It had some funny quips, some decent action and was a fun movie. Was it well written or original? Um, no, but I had not expectation of that. Honestly, Willis played it more like Red than Mclain which was an odd feel.

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Perhaps the biggest part of it was that the danger never felt real to the main characters. Between the car chase, explosion, rebar, falls and radiation, Mclainis pretty much a super hero. The plot had an interesting twist and at least engaged me enough for the final act.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-deLWTQLGW8o/UOhjCqkSzmI/AAAAAAAAALY/2hLs1S1wg5o/s1600/die-hard-5-poster.jpg

God loves you!

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

Not at all surprising given the director. He took Max Payne, which might be the easiest video-game you could possible adapt, and completely fucked it up. This guy is seriously the worst, just look at his imdb. He's worse than fucking Brett Ratner. At least Ratner made Rush Hour 2, this guy literally doesn't have a single good credit to his name.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

He was even a prick in the BTS for Max Payne.

Yeah, Max Payne was shit.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

bullet3 wrote:

  At least Ratner made Rush Hour 2, this guy literally doesn't have a single good credit to his name.


Rush Hour 2 is by far my favourite of that trilogy. Moore directed Behind Enemy Lines which I remember liking at the time. Haven't seen it in years, though.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

Jimmy B wrote:
bullet3 wrote:

  At least Ratner made Rush Hour 2, this guy literally doesn't have a single good credit to his name.


Rush Hour 2 is by far my favourite of that trilogy. Moore directed Behind Enemy Lines which I remember liking at the time. Haven't seen it in years, though.

Behind Enemy Lines is a good film, but definitely had its shaky moments. Might be worth a revisit.

I have a curiosity question-how should a Die Hard sequel be?

God loves you!

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

Yea I'm still looking forward to seeing it just for the heck of it.

Behind Enemy Lines has a lot of great stuff in it IMO.  The sequence between the plane at the beginning and the missiles is fantastic.  Flight had a great plane sequence but Behind Enemy Lines takes the cake for me.

Reviews are downright cringeworthy...

"Anyone who remembers the Die Hard adventures at their vital and exciting best, this film feels like a near-death experience."

Ow.

Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

fireproof78 wrote:

I have a curiosity question-how should a Die Hard sequel be?

I think any sequel to Die Hard is inherently contrived, since your story is repeating the same 'right guy, wrong place, wrong time' premise, conceptually with the same person (since to do otherwise means it's not a sequel but an imitation), which then essentially dilutes much of its power. I thought Die Hard 2 had the right idea, but was executed poorly and had none of the other things going for it that the first had (e.g. the estranged couple at its core, the everyman vulnerable hero) and Die Hard 3 was just an action movie with the same character, with Die Hard 4.0 going even further and, with some irony, making the hero virtually invulnerable (the great thing about the first was that he got hurt a lot but his tenacity and desire to win his wife back both literally and figuratively was what kept him going, not his hero shield).

I'm rambling today, quite a long winded way of saying 'don't make a sequel at all' I guess.

Last edited by redxavier (2013-02-18 10:06:37)

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

I think Die Hard 3 is a perfect example of how it can be done well. They didn't just rehash the first one, but kept a lot of the elements that make Die Hard great (interesting villain, cool bad guy plan that isn't what it seems, violent and hard hitting action sequences), and most importantly stayed true to the essence of the character. McClane is hung-over, suspended, seperated from Holly, and ends up forced into this crazy situation where he has to rely on his instincts to survive. There's one or two implausible action sequences, but I like to allow 1 of those per movie. Die Hard has the firehose off a sky-scraper, Die Hard 3 it's the water tunnel sequence.

The most important part for me is that McClane is still a vulnerable and relatable hero, he gets ROYALLY fucked up in Die Hard 3 by the end.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

bullet3 wrote:


The most important part for me is that McClane is still a vulnerable and relatable hero, he gets ROYALLY fucked up in Die Hard 3 by the end.

Yup, that's what I've been saying. He needs to be vulnerable, he was close to giving up at the end of the first film and he was distraught when he failed to save that plane in the second. By the fourth film he was indestructible and didn't seem to give a shit. He used to be a likeable slightly insecure dude but now Willis plays him as a cocky, grumpy old bastard. I agree with you about the 'implausible action sequences' and the face off with the jet in 4 was beyond ridiculous.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

Die Hard 6 will be about McClane finding out that he's actually immortal now. He'll run around begging people to kill him but noone will be able to.

Last edited by Lamer (2013-02-18 19:08:17)

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

When I watched Die Hard 4, I thought that McClane becoming this old grumpy guy was sort of logical, as they don't try to hide the fact that Willis has aged - McClane has too. And at the beginning, I still related a bit to him. "Okay, so McClane has grown older, he has a daughter now, and screwed up his relationship with her. No surprise here, it's McClane."

But the rest is so over the top it fucks the whole thing up. Now, with what I can hear about Die Hard 5... the only thing that comes to my mind is "screw that. It isn't canon to me anymore. McClane's story ended with Die Hard 3."

Last edited by Saniss (2013-02-18 19:13:58)

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

I still defend Die Hard 4 somewhat, in that you can sorta view his character change as a bizarro character arc, where he's survived so many of these crazy fucking things, that by #4, he's understandably kinda cocky about the whole thing. "Oh you're gonna chase me with a helicopter? Well I've killed about 100 bad guys, destroyed planes and helicopters and boats, I got this". It's lame that we have to go there to try to justify it, but at least the action is filmed well in #4, which appears to not be the case with this latest one.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

I won't take that away from Die Hard 4: most of the action looks amazing. The fights feel violent and real, and some stunts are incredible.

I agree with you about McClane: being cocky and basically unimpressed with whatever can happen to him feels natural after all the shit he's been through. But I really don't see why they had to go there and make him throw a goddamn car at a helicopter. Or, you know, the whole plane sequence.

Also, Timothy Olyphant is okay; but he's no Alan Rickman or Jeremy Irons (and William Sadler was pretty cool too).

Last edited by Saniss (2013-02-18 19:40:17)

Sébastien Fraud
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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

Saniss wrote:

When I watched Die Hard 4, I thought that McClane becoming this old grumpy guy was sort of logical, as they don't try to hide the fact that Willis has aged - McClane has too. And at the beginning, I still related a bit to him. "Okay, so McClane has grown older, he has a daughter now, and screwed up his relationship with her. No surprise here, it's McClane."

He's always had a daughter, though, and a son, they're in the first film. Anyway, I didn't relate to him as much as I did in the first film. I understand that we change as we get older but I felt as though he became a totally different character. He had more of a mean streak too in the fourth film with the way he treats people. He was a bit unsure of Argyle in the first film but he didn't out-and-out insult him or treat him like shit like he does with Matt in 4. He was a nice guy in the early films and just a git in the fourth.

bullet3 wrote:

I still defend Die Hard 4 somewhat, in that you can sorta view his character change as a bizarro character arc, where he's survived so many of these crazy fucking things, that by #4, he's understandably kinda cocky about the whole thing.

Ah, you see that logic would be flawless if all the films happened in the span of a few years but there was over a decade between the events of three and four. I agree that there would be some degree of cockiness but if McClane has been having a nice quiet trouble free life for 12 years I still think there'd be some fear or vulnerability there. 

I don't dislike the fourth film by the way, I still had fun with some of it smile

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

I will say too, that the unrated cut does improve it somewhat. Even if it's a lot of ADR stuff, there are a couple added bits that make it feel a lot more Die Hard. Unfortunately they haven't released that version on blu-ray as of yet.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

I agree with most of the posts here regarding the sequel. I've commented before and will add it now that the characters responses to the events in Good Day to Die Hard seemed off to me.

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There is a sense of invulnerability or casualness rather than fear or terror of the bad guys. I think part of the problem is how the villain is played out. We don't really know the shell game that is going on until the 3rd act, where the apparent bad guy is done in by the real bad guy. Good twist, but didn't feel earned.

It would have been better to me to have a more vulnerable protagonist(s) or greater stakes.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

bullet3 wrote:

I will say too, that the unrated cut does improve it somewhat. Even if it's a lot of ADR stuff, there are a couple added bits that make it feel a lot more Die Hard. Unfortunately they haven't released that version on blu-ray as of yet.

That's because it wasn't really designed to be in HD it is mostly just alternate takes and as you say, a lot of ADR swear words. I can't really watch the unrated cut and look past the fact that it was just a cynical cash grab by Fox.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

Lamer wrote:

Die Hard 6 will be about McClane finding out that he's actually immortal now. He'll run around begging people to kill him but noone will be able to.

I think they need to turn Die Hard into a six film prequel saga to The Matrix and reveal in the next one that John McClane is the first of the failed Ones. It's the only way to salvage the franchise.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

C-Spin wrote:
Lamer wrote:

Die Hard 6 will be about McClane finding out that he's actually immortal now. He'll run around begging people to kill him but noone will be able to.

I think they need to turn Die Hard into a six film prequel saga to The Matrix and reveal in the next one that John McClane is the first of the failed Ones. It's the only way to salvage the franchise.

And then he goes mental because he realises he could've had hair the whole time.

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Re: I just watched A Good Day To Die Hard...

Lamer wrote:
C-Spin wrote:
Lamer wrote:

Die Hard 6 will be about McClane finding out that he's actually immortal now. He'll run around begging people to kill him but noone will be able to.

I think they need to turn Die Hard into a six film prequel saga to The Matrix and reveal in the next one that John McClane is the first of the failed Ones. It's the only way to salvage the franchise.

And then he goes mental because he realises he could've had hair the whole time.

Then Sam Jackson shows up with brittle bones to convince him to take the red pill for his hair

God loves you!

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