Topic: Had it with FCP...

I post this as a guy who has edited professionally for 10 years, and owned an FCP rig for the last 8.   I use it as my primary workstation at home and most jobs I do these days (I worked a 2 day Avid job last week, but before that?  It had been since April of 09 since I did an Avid project).

Someone over at the ACE blog posted this and I find myself fully agreeing with all of his gripes.  While I have always said that while FCP rocks at shortform projects where you have some light titling and/or basic transitions, good luck trying to do anything long form on it as you'll rip your hair out.  When it comes to media management and access, FCP still has major issues to work with.  Yet its slowly becoming the industry standard because of cost.

http://ace-filmeditors.blogspot.com/201 … or-me.html

One guy has had it and refuses to work on it anymore.  I can't say I blame him.  Every complaint he talks about I have had as well.  TO be fair, I'm not an Avid rep or anything.  I learned NLE on the old Media 100, then Avid AVBV, then Premiere (I edited my feature documentary on premiere 5.1 which remains my most frustrating editing experience)  then Avid Composer and Symphony, all before I learned FCP.  Again, I use it myself everyday.  But there are very real frustrations I have with the system. 

Any thoughts/horror stories?

Eddie Doty

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Re: Had it with FCP...

We were talking about this over on the soopa-seekrit moderators' forum on the LAFCPUG message board.

My take on it is that it's some real design flaws multiplied horrifically by operator error. Final Cut, for all its virtues and vices, will happily let you do things that are monumentally stupid. Want to intercut 1080p24 material with stuff you got off a webcam? Knock yourself out! Wanna load a bunch of CMYK JPEGs in one of your bins? Go nuts! Want to store your render cache on a network drive mounted over a T1 line that a squirrel's chewed on? You're the boss!

It's not always easy to say who's to blame when an editor does something not-obviously-stupid. If it's covered in the manual, the manual is three thousand pages long. And if it's not covered in the manual, then you can hardly blame the editor for not having the accumulated wisdom of the ages.

It's just a little unfair to assert that Final Cut must necessarily be unreliable and crashy. If you do things the right way, it's rock-solid stable and very fast. But the "right way" is often something you have to figure out through extensive trial and error.

As for the guy's specific points, saying that Final Cut doesn't interoperate is just bullshit. Of course you can come out via EDL, which a great many people do; my best friend runs a post house that's getting more and more Final Cut work, and they send EDLs off to transfer houses all the time. But increasingly, XML is their transport of choice.

It's true that project management in Final Cut is a pain, but that falls into the category of the program letting you do things that won't work well. If you load up a project file to the point where it's a gigabyte and a half in size, Final Cut will never stop you and say "Yo, doofus, you're overdoing it here. Cut it out." It'll just let you keep going until it breaks. But long before Final Cut breaks, you've created for yourself a project file that's totally unusable anyway, so it's not unreasonable to assert that you never should have gotten to that point in the first place.

But some of the stuff the guy says is just … well, wrong. Like:

When you import media with a different frame rate or format from your project, you have to render it to make it run smoothly.

True enough … depending on your definition of "smoothly." Most of the time I never bother rendering stuff like this until pretty late in the process. I know I'm seeing a real-time preview, and I'm fine with that.

When you move these shots around they lose their render

Generally untrue. While Final Cut absolutely can lose render files (most notoriously if you disable a track), and while those are the ones you remember, most of the time you don't lose render files. The only exception I know of is if your timeline is set to a GOP format. In that case, yeah, Final Cut has to dump whole render files, because it can't just dump individual frames.

and it makes FCP prone to crash.

That's simply bogus. There's zero link between rendering off-speed or off-format material and Final Cut crashing. It sounds like Final Cut is crashing on this guy for totally unrelated reasons — maybe he's got an out of date I/O board driver, or maybe he's not running the most recent version or something — and he's blaming it on his editing habits.

The guy goes on and on like that. He starts with a valid point — you have to render off-format shots — and ends at "and Final Cut crashes." It's not always obvious where along the way he went off the rails, but it's in there somewhere. I mean, five crashes a day? I've probably had two Final Cut crashes in the past two years. He's got a problem with his system of some kind, I promise you. It could be anything from a software problem to bad RAM. It's dumb to blame the application when there's obviously an underlying system problem causing his problem.

The best part, though, is this:

Editor Note: you can copy clips, then hit Shift+V to ripple insert those clips in another sequence, but this is not obvious or well known

"Not obvious or well known?" Not only is it in the manual, it's in the goddamn menu. Edit menu, "paste insert," with the shift-V shortcut and everything. The feature literally cannot be any more obvious than that. Unless the software came with a free tee-shirt in the box that says "Shift-V to paste insert!" on it, and I think we can all agree that the goddamn Final Cut Studio box is goddamn heavy enough already.

(Oh, and if we're doing creds, I learned on the Fire beta. I know from crashy systems.)

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Re: Had it with FCP...

*starts slow clap*

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Had it with FCP...

I agree that a few of his gripes sound like user error.  I actually did a sizzle reel recently shot on RED, DVCPro, SOny XDCam, 7D, and 5D.  We spent a week transcoding everything, but towards the end we just used a few files in their native format and it seemed to work fine.

For my own experiences, Final Cut has a fundamental flaw with Project architecture and media management.  If I'm on deadline with Avid, and we have 3 other editors using the same footage, its not an issue.  We save to our own bins, and the handoff is easy.  Does Avid crash?  Absolutely.  But I'll take Unity attic over auto save vault any damn day.  FCP, you have to have people drag projects to their desktop, and then at some point an editor has to open multiple projects and combine, and I don't care what you say, the more projects open the more likely you are to crash.  I've crashed twice THIS MORNING with 4 projects open, all of them necessary.

His statements about trim mode vs FCP's slip tool is absolutely true.  It's an inferior design in every way.  That's why I always say if I'm doing something with a lot of FX, i prefer FCP because its just a tad quicker than opening Avid's antiquated Effects Pallete and Editor tools.  But when it ocmes to story and precision cutting, Avid is a bit more friendly.

I've always described the difference between the two as such:  FCP is an editing program for computer users, and Avid is a computer program for Editors.  While I love my little FCP system at home and it serves me (mostly) well, my opinion on the system as a whole is only reinforced the more I use it.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Had it with FCP...

No argument. Project and media management in Final Cut suck. Collaboration is difficult at the best of times, bordering on practically impossible. And Final Cut's tools are mostly inferior to Media Composer's, to a greater or lesser degree.

But Final Cut costs less than half of what Media Composer soft costs, and it works with Aja and Blackmagic I/O boards. And it does, all assertions to the contrary, basically work. Between Media Composer and Final Cut there's no clear choice. It comes down to infrastructure investment and personal preference.

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Re: Had it with FCP...

Having never edited anything longer than twenty minutes, I'm like the floppy idiot in the conversation.

AND SO I EMBRACE THAT SHIT.

PREMIERE FOREVER!

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Had it with FCP...

Says the Lightwave guy. Sheesh.

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Re: Had it with FCP...

I cut my teeth on Premiere 6 before moving to Final Cut Pro.

I have never looked back, nor strayed from my Final Cut mistress, to whom I am wholly devoted.

Re: Had it with FCP...

For the cost, FCP can't be beat.  And if you're doing projects that run in the 1-30 minute range, FCP is ideal for that.  I wouldn't have wanted to cut the sizzle reel for my show on anything BUT FCP.  But in my day to day job of cutting hour long programs with multiple editors, or for the indie feature I just did some work on, Avid is vastly superior.  Of course preference is everything.  But for the original blog poster, I get it.  I totally get it.

And yes, FCP is way better than Premiere, and I will say that shit till the day I die.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Had it with FCP...

Have you ever used Smoke, Eddie? Used to be fairly exotic, but now that it's on the Mac it seems like everybody has one.

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Re: Had it with FCP...

Jeffery Harrell wrote:

Have you ever used Smoke, Eddie? Used to be fairly exotic, but now that it's on the Mac it seems like everybody has one.

For like, 3 days, on a side gig doing promos.  I figured it out okay, and I like the idea of doing everything on a single program, but it seemed a bit cluttered.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Had it with FCP...

It takes getting used to. It's a finishing system and no mistake. I love it, but I wouldn't want to use it for creative editorial. That's what the offline is for.

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Re: Had it with FCP...

BUH BUH BUH PREMIERE FLAAAAYVIN!

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Had it with FCP...

Check out Edius, I started out using as a Premiere-substitute a few years ago and haven't looked back.

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