A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD) (Page 1 of 13)

Jon Snow's mom!   Or Teague's mom.   Somebody's mom.

Something I noticed with last episode: they appear to have dropped (at least for the moment) Jorah Mormont's initial mission (which was, spy on Daenerys for King's landing). They mentioned it in season 1, but it should have been revealed to Daenerys before Yunkai's taking.

I wonder whether they're just keeping it for later or not. Jorah's supposed to be going his own way and capture Tyrion.

Pff! It's made very clear that his parents are Ned Stark and some broad he met during the war who he just doesn't want to talk about.

I think you might be onto something there, that would make for a more interesting story to be sure. And what a twist!

Seriously though, one thing that always bums me out is thinking about Ned never being able to tell Jon the truth.

According to this interview, when Benioff and Weiss met with Martin for the first time about adapting GoT for TV, he tested the level of their interest in the material by asking "Who's Jon Snow's mother?"   Apparently they gave the right answer.

Anyway, unless it's all been a completely genius red herring, I'm currently going with the Rhaegar/Lyanna theory as well.   And the strongest evidence isn't in the books, it's in the show.   

Think about it - there must be all sorts of things that Martin's got planned that haven't been published yet.  But the makers of the show still have to know them now, so they don't unwittingly make any changes or cuts that will wreck something later.     (Same way the writers of the middle Potter movies ran everything past Rowling to make sure they weren't going off in a wrong direction.)

So when it comes to the topic of Snow's true parents, look at how the show has dealt with it - especially in the scenes between Ned and Robert in the very first episodes.    Everything Ned says - or avoids saying, or changes the subject - supports the idea that Jon is Lyanna's son.   

It's the last thing he could ever admit to Robert, for plenty of reasons.   That knowledge would unleash such a shitstorm that Ned was willing to let his own wife sorta hate him for fathering a bastard, when he did no such thing.   Which is completely IN character for Ned, whereas having a roll in the hay with a tavern wench isn't.

So watch what Sean Bean does - and listen to how carefully written his lines are -  in any scene where Snow or Lyanna are mentioned.  He knows.     He had to, to know how to play it.

Definitely agree with Trey, I think the show all but confirmed Lyanna Stark was the mother when Ned told Jon that he was 'my blood'.

Seriously, check out the scene in episode 2 of the first season, where Ned and Robert have their little picnic chat under the trees.   Robert asks Ned flat-out about Snow's mother and Ned refuses to talk about it.   In the same conversation, Robert also talks about how determined he is to eliminate all traces of the Targaryaen bloodline. 

Watch that scene with the mindset  of "Ned doesn't want Robert to know Snow is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna" and everything Ned says and does makes perfect sense. 

True, but it also works with "Ned doesn't want to talk about that one time in his life when he didn't act with honor".

I guess we'll know with the last two books. I don't see Jon's arc ending with what happens at the end of book 5.

Last edited by Saniss (2013-06-05 21:56:22)

Well, that's why I think it's both well-written and acted - the clues are there, without telegraphing anything too much. 

The real reason I support the Snow is a Targaryaen theory is that it makes sense for the overall story as well - it's a Song of Ice and Fire, after all - all this human squabbling is trivial compared to the power of White Walkers and dragons.   

If Jon Snow is half-Stark and half-Targaryaen, he's the rightful heir to the kingdom - or at least has a viable claim.  Even the Red Wedding makes sense in that big picture - Robb Stark was never the rightful heir, Snow is.  But since he doesn't know that, Snow's been spending his time becoming White Walker Killer In Chief and brokering an alliance between the wildlings and the Watch.

Meanwhile on the other side of the world is Daenerys, who also started from nothing to raise her own army and learn to command dragons.

So far Jon and (his aunt!) Daenerys have been kept as far apart as the geography of Westeros will allow, but  there'll be a meeting at some point.  When that comes they might fall in love, they might join forces against the Walkers, or they may go to war with each other, but I think the real story has always been about the two of them and how they'll ultimately decide the fate of Westeros.

well, if ALL of this is a red herring and he goes somewhere else with it, then good for him

Jorah getting banished would be a great way to end Dany's storyline for this season. And it would also be a HUGE twist for non-book-readers, who have been made to heavily sympathize with Jorah over his unrequited love for Dany in recent episodes. Book-Jorah always came across as kind of a creep to me. A well-meaning creep, but a creep nonetheless, and I wasn't too broken up to see him go. Loved his stuff with Tyrion in ADWD though.

It just makes her storyline cleaner, I think. That way they're built up as her main opponents for the season, and the House of the Undying scene is more dramatic.