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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

So let's see, between the previous thread and this one, are we ready to place bets on what we'll see in the season finale?    This is sort of our version of the writer's room - we already know what the story is, we're just deciding how much of it they'll tell this season.

Here are my picks.

Joffrey's wedding - yeah, as much as it might be fun to have it now, I'm now thinking it's pretty unlikely.

The arrival of Coldhands - the perfect closer to Sam's story for this season, and a solid WTF to ponder until next season.   Very likely.

Introducing Lady Stoneheart - as a second surprise built on last week, and to pay off all that time with the Brotherhood and their ability to raise the dead.   Extremely likely.

Jorah banished:  A good reversal, and it's time for it to happen.  Highly likely.

The Hound goes down and Arya sets off alone.  Would make a decent closer to her story this season - we just saw that conversation last week about sticking a sword in his eye.  Would  make sense to follow that up with her having the opportunity but not doing it.  Somewhat likely.

The ones I dunno:

The Lannisters  They didn't get any screen time last week at all, we'll certainly see them this week.  What will we see there?

Jon Snow?

Bran and Co.?

Anyone got a guess about those?

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

I'd say that Arya leaving the Hound is almost certain. Virtually nothing else happens in that storyline between the Red Wedding and the end of the book.

Other than that, probably a shit ton of cliffhangers. I'm betting on Jon's story ending with the Wildlings about to attack Castle Black. Not much is going on at King's Landing, though. It's gonna be a weird hour.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Arya sailing away as she looks back at Westeros feels like it would be a solid closer for her, although they will need quite a bit of screen-time to get to that point (at least 10-15 min).

I'm curious if they'll get another scene with John and Ygritte before they're split up for good, it felt a little weird when he ditched her the way they played the scene last episode. His plot ends with him reaching Castle-black, and perhaps seeing Mance's army approaching on the other side.

I'm almost certain no Purple Wedding, just needs too much time, I'd put money on that being episode 4 next season (they've setup a bit of a pattern now of big events in eps 4 and 9). Jaime sees his father, re-instates Brienne into the Kingsguard maybe to get some closure on that plot. Dunno what they do with Tyrion, probably nothing meaningful as he hasn't had much of an arc this season.

Ends either on Dany or Lady Stoneheart

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Belwas was indeed cut: http://winteriscoming.net/2013/04/grrm- … -been-cut/
Can't say I'm upset, I confess the story in the East has bored me tremendously, especially in ADWD...

Also, mentioned earlier about the TV show dialogue making the R+L=J link more obvious, this scene sealed it for me:

"You may not have my name, but you have my blood". I think the choice of words is really telling here, a tacit admission that he's not his son, which surely he'd just say, but is still a blood relative. At least, that's how I see it.


I've not been watching this season (or most of season 2 either), but the threads and rising excitement and buzz have me wanting to put in the bluray and start watching again. Very tempted...

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

They could be pretty quick with Arya - she and the Hound get into a scrape, he goes down and she ditches him... we watch somebody else for a while, then back to her boarding the ship, flashing the coin and saying Valar Morghulis.  Could be done pretty efficiently, and certainly the perfect exit for her for the season.

Hello.  I am Arya Stark.  You killed my mother and brother.  Valar Morghulis.

For that matter, they could accelerate the time in between by making a very minor tweak - she and the Hound were at the Twins as of last week.   The Twins is on the Trident, which leads to the Narrow Sea, and Braavos is across the water from there.   So a ship could be docked very near the Twins and be on its way directly to Braavos.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Yeah, but I like the idea of Arya mercy killing the Hound. I hope they keep that in.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Ummmm.....

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Another bit regarding Jon's Targaryen roots: His stab wound is described as 'smoking' at the end of book 5. Then again, he did take quite the burn from a lantern in book 1, which doesn't line up with dragon blood.

Incidentally, is anyone else annoyed with the number of people who are 'dead' but (probably) not really? Brienne and Jon are currently in limbo. There were Cat and Gregor too, though they are seriously changed and follow the trend towards introducing more magic. Theon got a fake-out death too, and the fake over Arya's sight also annoyed me, though mostly because she just vanished for at least half a book.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Trey wrote:

Ummmm.....

...Did I imagine that part? I swear I remember that happening.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

We also see Jon get burned in the series when he fights off the wights on the Wall - which is about the only argument I know of against him being Targaryaen.   But I justify it because he's only half-dragon whereas Danaerys is pure (if incestuous) Targaryaen.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Phi wrote:

Incidentally, is anyone else annoyed with the number of people who are 'dead' but (probably) not really? Brienne and Jon are currently in limbo. There were Cat and Gregor too, though they are seriously changed and follow the trend towards introducing more magic. Theon got a fake-out death too, and the fake over Arya's sight also annoyed me, though mostly because she just vanished for at least half a book.

Yep. It's quite frequently said that GRRM kills characters, but he hasn't killed half as many as he leads you to believe in the chapter cliffhangers. Remember when Arya got hit with the Hound's axe outside the Twins?

I was happy Catelyn came back, someone can kill her again  big_smile


And Arya just leaves Hound to die. But don't worry, he aint dead either wink

Last edited by redxavier (2013-06-06 00:46:14)

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Doctor Submarine wrote:
Trey wrote:

Ummmm.....

...Did I imagine that part? I swear I remember that happening.

She thinks about it, but ultimately doesn't do the deed.   Probably because that's even more cruel.    Ever since, the question of whether the Hound is dead or alive has been uncertain. 

So like Phi says, he's probably alive (or alive-ish) and will show up again at some point.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Trey wrote:

But I justify it because he's only half-dragon whereas Danaerys is pure (and incestuous) Targaryaen.

FTFY

@redxavier: I forgot about Arya getting clocked at the Twins, and the Hound's not-death. Added to my grr(m) list.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Coulda fixed Daenerys for me while you were at it.   smile   I misspell her name more often than I get it right.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

As an aside, Arya is my favourite character by a country mile.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

I did the audiobooks. Haven't a foggy how to spell anyone's name tongue I can pronounce them all though (and get annoyed when the show does it WRONG I TELL YOU WRONG! It's VAY-lar mor-GUL-is)

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

In the books, yeah - same here.  I'm hoping for a serious revenge spree once Arya graduates Assassin School.

On the show, I gotta go with the easy answer - Dinklage has made Tyrion much more sympathetic and adorable than the one I imagined from the books.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Trey wrote:

We also see Jon get burned in the series when he fights off the wights on the Wall - which is about the only argument I know of against him being Targaryaen.   But I justify it because he's only half-dragon whereas Danaerys is pure (if incestuous) Targaryaen.

John was burned, if I remember correctly, before the birth of the dragons heralded by the red comet. Daenerys had a high pain threshold attributed to her linage but she was not invulnerable to fire. It's not until the birth of the dragons, magic is re-introduced into the world and Daenerys emerges reborn in the flames. Also she's the mother of dragons not a mere "uncle of dragons":)

But I believe we will see John Snow become one of the dragon riders before the end of the story.

---------------------------------------------
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Trey wrote:

The Lannisters  They didn't get any screen time last week at all, we'll certainly see them this week.  What will we see there?

I think it is once again time to let my girl Cersei shine. The Purple Wedding aftermath has to major center points: Cersei's descent into madness and paranoia, and Tyrion's turn into non-sympathetic murderer.

Setting up Cersei's mistrust of the Tyrells and her family puts what little power she has on the line.  Tyrion's imprisonment and impending trial put his fate in jeapordy as well. Season 4 can have Tyrion's trial (Martells!!!!!!) and escape towards the end, and Cersei's relationship with Jaime becoming fraught.

Oh, and Trey: it's always safe to go with 'Dany' instead of her full name.


To change gears a bit: what do you guys think of the theory that Jon is Azor Ahai reborn?

Last edited by Allison (2013-06-06 01:36:10)

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

AshDigital wrote:

But I believe we will see John Snow become one of the dragon riders before the end of the story.

I absolutely think so too.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

bullet3 wrote:

I'm curious if they'll get another scene with John and Ygritte before they're split up for good

Oh, wait - yes!  All that's left for her to do is get killed.   That would certainly make a solid season-ender for Jon and the whole Wildling subplot.

It would mean they'll have to do the Wildling attack in the final episode - but they've been building to it for several episodes, so...

yeah, I'm gonna bet next episode we say byebye to Ygritte.  Makes more sense than bringing her back next season and whacking her then.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Joffrey's wedding would be an excellent way to open a new season, plus it finally lets Sansa start her story.

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Phi wrote:

I did the audiobooks. Haven't a foggy how to spell anyone's name tongue I can pronounce them all though (and get annoyed when the show does it WRONG I TELL YOU WRONG! It's VAY-lar mor-GUL-is)

I'm still bothered by the fact that they pronounce Brienne's name "Bree-ENN" rather than "Bry-EEN," same reason.

Dave wrote:

Joffrey's wedding would be an excellent way to open a new season

I'd be shocked if they did that, just as much as if they did it in this last episode. It needs a few episodes of dedicated build-up to really land the payoff, IMO. They've referenced it but the show hasn't really focused on the idea of the wedding like it did with the Red Wedding.

I wonder if they'll take next season, and said build-up to re-introduce Ser Dontos into the story. They did the whole thing with her saving the drunken knight then seemingly decided, nah, and just abandoned that plotline. But maybe their conspiracy will be her story leading up to the wedding.

Last edited by Dorkman (2013-06-06 02:17:06)

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

Now that you mention it, that's very likely the way they'll do it.  They don't have the time for a lot of extra business on the show-pretty much everything is there for a reason.  And they took the time to do the Dontos setup.

Which paves the way to bring Dontos back early next season, hey remember me?  You saved my life etc etc.  Then let them build their plot for a few episodes, then flip that all on its head with the Joffrey Surprise mid-season.

Back half of the season is the fallout from that - Tyrion accused, Cersei goes batshit, Sansa and Littlefinger run for the Aerie.  And then the season-ender (or episode 9 smile) Tyrion pays a call on Dad.

EDIT:  New thought - it would make a certain kind of sense to bring Dontos back in the last episode of THIS season and introduce the idea of a plot right now.  That could plant the seed for next season's arc: Sansa Makes Her Move

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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire (BOOK READERS ONLY; MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD)

There has been a lot of discussion of Shae replacing Dontos in Sansa's stroyline. I'm unsure how I feel about that decision, should it be the case.

Whoever it ends up being, having a midnight godswood meeting where the possibility of escape is mentioned would be a good way to wrap up Sansa for this season.

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