A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo (Page 4 of 12)

Yeah, "Ozymandias" was pretty uneventful, huh?

After this episode, it's even more clear that the relevance of Shelley's sonnet is two-fold. Not only has Walt's meth-based empire crumbled, but so has the "empire" of his family. All this time he'd been able to maintain both empires, and now the one crumbling down has toppled over the other. If Walt does get away, it's possible he could build another drug empire, but he can't repair what's been broken at home. From the fam's point of view, Walt is Hank's murderer, Skyler's attempted murderer, and Holly's kidnapper. Clearly Thanksgivings at the White household would be awkward.

When Walt told Jesse about Jane, it almost felt like there was a missing line there. Walt's logic seems to be that he blames Jesse for causing the chain of events that led to Hank's death. I expected Jesse's retort to be something like "Well now we're even, I guess." But it's more realistic the way the writers had it. Jesse was hysterical, not in any state of mind to deliver a snappy comeback.   

There was no levity whatsoever in this episode. From here on out, that's the way it might be. The rational, calculating Walt is being consumed by emotions. It made no sense to take Holly with him when he fled the house. But it made emotional sense in that Walt begged his wife and son to come with him, and when they refused, he grabbed the only family member he could carry. (Leaving his own kid at the firehouse was, for me, one of the most fucked up things WW has ever done. Btw, did Walt turn the fire truck's lights on, or did Holly? Clever girl...)

Cranston has said that the series ends in a way that's utterly unrelenting and brutal. It feels like we're already there, but apparently it gets more savage. You let that sink in.

I was surprised at how surprised Junior was. When his aunt and mom told him what was up (hey, who was working the register at that time?), he was incredulous. It would have been funny if he'd said "Yeah, um, I figured dad was a meth cook!" All this time I guess I've imagined that Junior was quietly suspicious that something weird was up with dear old dad. Maybe I figured the writers would at some point do the old someone-with-a-disability-is-actually-sharp-as-a-tack trope with Junior, but once again they did something way better than I expected.

The phone conversation with Skyler reveals Walt's true feelings. Skyler's crime, in his mind, was "disrespect" and not believing in him. Hank crossed me, and you toe the line or you'll end up like him, he tells her. I think he's serious.

Part of the reason Gus Fring was better at this whole drug kingpin thing was because he had no family to protect, no reputation to maintain except as the manager of Los Pollos Hermanos. And he had no ego, no wish that others would recognize and appreciate his brilliance. And of course there's the fact that he was ruthless in ways that Walt even now can't bring himself to be. Gus would have shot his DEA brother-in-law himself, or probably killed him long before things came down to a showdown in the desert.

Hot damn did I dig that episode.

This ThinkProgress piece hits the nail on the head for me.

Alyssa Rosenberg is very good at off-the-cuff story analysis (she did a great article on ELYSIUM too). I wish we could get her on the show.

This was the only halfway-decent thing he did this whole episode. He actually realized he'd gone too far in something and handed her over so she could get home (he pinned identifying info to her clothes and, yes, flipped on the lights).

I think it was intended to be clear from the way he broke down that he knew the police were listening in and wanted to confess to everything and clear Skyler's from being implicated in any wrongdoing.

My personal thoughts on the episode:

I was running back through the series in my mind last night, and I was imagining a scenario where Walt never decided to cook meth. Walter is on his deathbed, but the rest of the world is doing just fine. Krazy-8 helped the DEA bust Jesse. He'll spend a couple years in jail, but once he gets through the court-mandated rehab, he might come out the other side a better person. Hank and Gomie are alive and well, and Hank is happy with Marie. Mike is watching his granddaughter play on the playground. Gale is happily cooking for Gus, who is perfectly pleased with Gale's 96%-pure output (and his subservient nature.) It was sort of a twisted It's A Wonderful Life. I couldn't think of a single character who wouldn't have been better off had Walt just died of lung cancer. Would his family be in dire financial straits? Sure, but they wouldn't be psychologically and emotionally scarred, forever unable to shake the specter of Walt's monstrous deeds done in their names. Breaking Bad has always been about cause and effect, and nothing demonstrated it better than Walt screaming, "We're supposed to be a family!" while his wife and son cowered from him in fear. In trying to save his family, he destroyed it. What an arc.

Also, WOW with the comments on that Think Progress piece. I can't believe people are still willing to defend Walt's actions, so far as to say that Hank's death was his own fault.

Last edited by Doctor Submarine (2013-09-16 13:57:34)

For Walt "good" has always been anything pro-Walt's-family, and "bad" is anything that threatens Walt's family.   Returning Holly and giving Skyler an alibi are pro-family, and completely in character for him. 

Even the most evil villain thinks they're the hero of their personal story - Walt certainly thinks that.   Whether or not we outsiders see him as redeemable is our own business.

I do think returning Holly was partly because Walt realized she would be better off (for now) with Skyler... but also because Walt would be better off making his escape without an infant to have to care for.

Also:

The occasional "redeeming" moments for Walt are testament to the incredible writing of the show. When Walt gave the nod that signed Jesse's death warrant, that was the moment he should have become unforgivable. If not then, when he gave the nod to torture and kill Jesse. If not then, the moment he decided he needed to throw the first stone by telling Jesse about Jane. That wasn't a self-serving confession. That was a calculated, cold-blooded move to break Jesse.

Those moments were designed to finally seal the deal with us, the audience, that the final consequences for his choices, the ones we'll see him reap in the final hours of the story, are going to be deserved. To make us want to see him punished for his crimes.

The fact that we still fucking feel for the guy when he breaks down weeping for the loss of his family goes to the heart of what this show has become and why it's so great -- because it has never given us the easy answer, the ability to say "Well, Walt is an inhuman monster. Like any movie monster, we can enjoy his rampage and then cheer when he's finally destroyed, content that good always wins." Breaking Bad has never forgotten, nor let us forget, that Walt is absolutely human. He's not a demon or a creature from beyond or some other kind of Other. He is us, his mistakes and flaws recognizable as the same ones that reside in our own hearts, our ability to justify his evil in increments, just as he has, an object lesson -- and a warning -- about how easy it is to do in real life, too.

Really? I read that as Walt making sure it's Jessie that puts the bullet in him to put him out of his misery.... to activate him.... the same way Jane's death was to Activate Jessie...

/Z

Oh, I certainly agree that those moves were in character, though I'd point out that many times Walt did something he felt was "pro-Walt's-family" was not actually the case *cough*premiseoftheshow*cough*

I guess "believable" wasn't the right way to put it. I guess if I had to pinpoint it, it was that I worry that it felt more like him being self-sacrificing, rather than what it was, him losing. I'm going off a single watch, and it's not like that show is easily digestible, so it's possible that while it was all there I just wanted it to be less subtle (which I'm sure I'll ease back on the more I watch it and think on it, because BB has always done subtle amazingly).

Holly crying for her mother was, what I felt, the true moment of when Walter realized he had lost his family for good...and again it's probably just my desire for the moment to be less subtle, which in the long run I'll go back on because BB usually uses just the right amount.

I'm curious if they are going to address the fact that Walt actually saddled Skyler with yet another deception, even if it was supposed to help her. By taking all the blame himself, Skyler is now going to be lying to her son, daughter, sister, everyone about her complicity for the rest of her life. Even in trying to be self-sacrificing, he added a burden on her. She knows she turned, the person she was (is?), but she'll forever have to deal with that alone because otherwise she gives up the battered-wife persona she'll need to not end up in jail...which (ultimate irony) might even be true, but not in the way she'll have to project to everyone she knows.

He's no Xenomorph from Alien or Ron Silver in Timecop, but he's no longer just a guy that's made some mistakes along the way....he's a full-fledged Villain.

Last edited by BBQ (2013-09-16 20:39:14)

Yeah, admittedly I really thought we'd end this episode in a way that has the start of the next episode pick up where the flash-forwards ended...but it seems more likely now that we'll catch up either somewhere in the middle or even at the end of the next episode. Still could be possible that they pick up the flash forwards and reveal the mysteries around why/when he's come back as the episode unfolds.

I'll note that it seems like what a character deserves on Breaking Bad means nothing about the outcome of their story. For the briefest of moments in this past episode, I thought Jesse wasn't making it out of that desert..even though every story-telling aspect of my brain knew better.

On the phone call, Walter says that he still has things he needs to do...so I'm not sure there's a "revelation" that needs to happen to bring him back to Albuquerque. He could very well be leaving town as a way to regroup and prepare. He may not have the plan yet, but it's entirely possible that the "goal" is already decided.

Though, the most obvious revelation would be finding out the Nazi's went back on their promise to kill Jesse and that he/they are cooking his formula. That said, he could go back to enact revenge on Jack's gang for Hank and the Money -- only to discover once there that they've put Jesse into slavery...which could be an interesting dilemma.

IS IT SUNDAY YET?

Walt's reasons for wanting Jesse dead are all pretty much invalid now.    He has no personal grudge against Jesse and never did - any more than he hated (or even knew the names of) all those murdered jailhouse witnesses.    Walt's actions toward Jesse have always been driven by Jesse's usefulness and/or threat to Walt at any given moment.

So at first he hired the Nazis to kill Jesse because Jesse was working with Hank to bring Walt down.  Then he was willing to let the Nazis execute Jesse in exchange for letting Hank live, but that was never going to happen.  So then he gladly let the Nazis take Jesse so Walt himself could walk away, go get his family and escape.   Except - Walt's own family screwed up that plan by refusing to run away with him.   

So now Walt's lost everything... but there's also no potential harm to Walt if Jesse lives.  The house of cards has already collapsed.  So I don't think Walt's come all the way back to do harm to Jesse.  I think in some twisted Walt-logic way, it may be the opposite.

It seems to me that part of what makes the phone call at the end so fascinating is that it isn't uniformly obvious where the line is between sincere Walt and calculating Walt. Some of the things he said that were intended to make Skyler look less complicit were also skewed expressions of actual resentments he's long felt toward her. And when he cautions her to toe the line or she'll end up like Hank, some of that could be just more bluster and smokescreen and anger, and some of it could be a sincere word of caution to Skyler about just how much she wants to continue working with the cops beyond the missing child/Amber alert stuff. At this point, I'm not sure Walt knows exactly what's going on in his own head, where these demarcations are. He's doing a lot of desperate improvisation lately.

It is pretty cool how the episode is bookended with the phone calls. In the first Skyler is totally clueless, and in the second she knows what's up. Both times Walt appears to have little dignity—he's lying his ass off (pantsless) and then at rock-bottom, on the run.