Topic: Walking It Back?

In a recent commentary, Dorkman mentioned he's revised his initial opinion of Avatar, and is "walking it back" from 'mediocre' to 'not bad' (or words to that effect).

So the question to you all is, what movies have you revised your initial opinions on? Because of a second viewing? Or you've had a conversation about it where someone introduced a new perspective, or you've read the book it's based on, or seen the effort in the behind-the-scenes, or heard the director's commentary, or the WAYDM commentary, etc?

For me, the Dark Knight trilogy has improved with age and second and third viewings. From 'not bad' to 'this is classy top-shelf stuff'. Even the third instalment.

Others include Watchmen and Vanilla Sky and Mulholland Drive.

So what movies have you guys 'walked back' and why?

Last edited by avatar (2014-05-07 23:12:58)

not long to go now...

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Re: Walking It Back?

Blade Runner comes to mind. I found it horribly boring on the first viewing (granted, I was a kid at the time). The second viewing (during the college years) improved my opinion. I had to grow even older and gain a better understanding of cinema to truly appreciate it.

Prometheus could've worked much better if it were written as a Blade Runner sequel (and devoid of all this awful science, of course). The "I want more life, father" thing that binds the movies would serve as the central theme.
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So honor the valiant who die 'neath your sword
But pity the warrior who slays all his foes...

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Re: Walking It Back?

I went through the same thing with Avatar and TDKR myself, both times probably having something to do with my expectations beforehand.

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Re: Walking It Back?

There are some great movies I didn't like when I was little, because I didn't understand them or they bored me. I almost walked out of FOTR in 5th grade.

There are also movies I was too dumb not to love...

http://www.motherjones.com/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/photoessays/head_of_state.jpg

But I think it's easier to come around on a movie than it is to hate a movie you once loved. Nostalgia is a powerful thing. I still like Head of State. Just not quite as much as I used to.

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Re: Walking It Back?

Definitely walking back on Avatar. It's incredibly well-made, which I didn't give it enough credit for at the time. My complaints really boiled down to "the story is derivative," and while I'll have to revisit it to be sure, that's not enough reason to hate a movie.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Walking It Back?

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Definitely walking back on Avatar. It's incredibly well-made, which I didn't give it enough credit for at the time. My complaints really boiled down to "the story is derivative," and while I'll have to revisit it to be sure, that's not enough reason to hate a movie.

Avatar should be looked at like a really awesome genre twisted cover of that one song you really loved in college. There's a sense of familiarity to it, but it's infused with this whole other vibe that has it's own thing going on, and they blend really well and give it a new life.

I still love Avatar, my opinion has never changed on that.

Probably the closest I can think of in recent memory would be MiB2, as I recounted in the last movie you watched thread. I never really had any super strong feelings about it, it was just kinda not very good and generally worth forgetting as a whole. But on my latest rewatch, there was a lot of baby I'd thrown out in the bathwater (Can I just say, how horrifying a saying that is?). There was a lot of really good moments that got overshadowed by how meh some of the other components were. On rewatch I walked away having, for the most part, really enjoyed it.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2014-05-08 03:21:18)

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Re: Walking It Back?

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Definitely walking back on Avatar. It's incredibly well-made, which I didn't give it enough credit for at the time. My complaints really boiled down to "the story is derivative," and while I'll have to revisit it to be sure, that's not enough reason to hate a movie.

It is a little more than just that "the story is derivative," though. The main villain is very mustache twirly, and all the military guys are unbelievably cookie-cutter; soulless killing machines. I lose it whenever I hear the bald guy yell, "GET SOME!!!"

I don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it out to be, but that aspect of it rubs me the wrong way.

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I think it's hard for me to upgrade my opinion of a bad movie simply because I'm not likely to give it a second viewing. More likely is a movie becoming less in my eye as I become more familiar with it.

I write stories! With words!
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Re: Walking It Back?

I didn't like Psycho the first time I saw it. Not sure why. Now I think it's terrific.

I liked John Carpenter's The Thing just fine when I was a kid, but I thought of it as just a monster movie. Since then, tho, it's become one of my favorite films.

The Big Lebowski has gone from a 5 or so to a 6 or maybe 7. I have a hard time getting past why the Dude would hang out with Walter. It doesn't seem right for his character, and it makes no sense as part of the sly take on the noir subgenre.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Walking It Back?

Biggest ones I can think of:

Inception is one of the best 1st time viewing experiences I've ever had, but it definitely dropped a notch for me on subsequent viewings when I was really able to pick apart the logic and structure.

Star Wars original trilogy have definitely dropped down a lot for me as I've grown up (especially Jedi, which is largely terrible to be honest), while the Star Trek original 6 films have grown a lot in my estimation.

Others have mentioned Blade Runner, and I strongly think that's a movie that demands multiple viewings. I remember seeing some of it on cable as a kid and thinking it was terrible, and now it's easily in my top 10-20 favorites. The older you get, the more the underlying themes resonate, and every time I notice some new details in the atmosphere and world-building.

I also for the longest time thought Aliens was better than Alien, and I think I've finally come to the point where I've flipped on the two and enjoy the ominous dread and atmosphere more than the all-out-action of Cameron's film.

Last edited by bullet3 (2014-05-08 07:14:50)

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Re: Walking It Back?

http://www.empireonline.com/images/image_index/original/45507.jpg

Alien3 must be one of the most 'walked back' movies ever. After the first two universally loved perfect movies in the franchise, the initial response to Alien3 was WTF? But when one has seen the 3-hour Anthology documentary (Wreckage and Rage: Making Alien 3) you realise it wasn't Fincher's fault. And then you see the extended workprint, you get a new appreciation for it on its own terms. It's got an uncompromisingly bleak tone (opens with a downer and descends from there), a great score, a great look, and a great performance from Charles Dance. Its new reputation is more 'flawed masterpiece' than 'what a clusterfuck'.

not long to go now...

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Re: Walking It Back?

First time I saw Dredd was with some friends, and I thought it was terrible simply because the mood was "Judge Dredd was terrible, so Dredd must be terrible". We chose to laugh at everything simply because of our expectations.

Then I saw it again while listening to the WAYDM commentary, and I completely walked back on that. It's not my favorite movie in the world, but it has its strengths.

I still think Karl Urban wasn't the best choice, though. He looks a bit ridiculous with this big-ass helmet.

Last edited by Saniss (2014-05-08 09:46:03)

Sébastien Fraud
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Re: Walking It Back?

Owen Ward wrote:

I went through the same thing with Avatar and TDKR myself, both times probably having something to do with my expectations beforehand.

Expectations are why I didn't like The Final Cut that much on the first viewing; I enjoyed it a lot more the second time around, and it wasn't that long between viewings.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: Walking It Back?

My second viewing of Blade Runner definitely improved it in my eyes—the story made more sense (though there are still holes), and seeing it on a bigger screen allowed me to appreciate even more just how flawlessly gorgeous the effects are. Still not one of my favorite movies, but one I'll definitely revisit just for looks alone.

Vertigo is one that I saw as an eleven year old and didn't very much care for; I saw it after I'd watched and loved Rear Window and The Birds, and it was rather a letdown for me. Six years later, I listened to the WAYDM commentary and was intrigued enough that I decided to see it again, keeping in mind Eddie's experience of not being able to appreciate the film until you've had your first love shattered. It's still not my favorite Hitchcock film—the pacing is an issue, as discussed in the WAYDM—but I was far more able to appreciate it now that I'm a mature viewer. The cinematography is gorgeous, the score is utterly fantastic (I was surprised Teague, music aficionado that he is, didn't bring it up in the episode), and Stewart's performance is deeply unsettling. I'm very glad I decided to revisit it as an adult and develop a greater appreciation for it.

Last edited by Abbie (2014-05-11 22:31:28)

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Re: Walking It Back?

Ooooh ya, Vertigo is one that I distinctly remember seeing as like an 8 year old and totally hating and not understanding anything. As an adult, I love the movie (and the pacing doesn't bother me at all either).

Dredd I enjoyed a lot in theaters, but subsequent viewings have really elevated it to the point of genre masterpiece in my book. I think it's the best film of 2012, and I think 10 years from now people will recognize it as an action classic along the lines of Robocop or Terminator.

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I don't usually re-watch films I didn't like or thought were 'meh' but it has happened a few times. Here are two examples-

Star Trek Into Darkness didn't make me want to claw my own eyes out on second viewing, so there's that. The Tintin movie was just 'ok' the first time I saw it but I thought it was bloody good fun the second time and have watched it a third and still enjoyed the heck out of it.

Last edited by Jimmy B (2014-05-08 18:48:40)

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Re: Walking It Back?

I've walked back on Inception BIG TIME. It's a cold, unimaginative movie.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Walking It Back?

I've walked back on The Dark Knight consistently. When I first joined the forum here I actually hadn't seen very many movies and as such listed it as in my top ten films. tongue On every subsequent viewing, its flaws stand out more and more to me: as discussed in the WAYDM, it most definitely drags after the hospital scene, Harvey's arc is far too abrupt, and some of the stuff like the magic bullet reconstructor is just dumb. It would've been a much better film, I think, if Nolan had been free to direct a similar script as a straight crime film rather than a Batman film. Watching The Prestige was the final nail in the proverbial coffin—it let me see what Nolan can do when he's really free to do whatever he wants, and it's a markedly better film than either Inception or the Batman films. Do I still really enjoy watching TDK? Of course—Ledger alone is worth it. But I no longer count it as one of my favorite films, or as Nolan's best.

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I think the more you watch movies, the more your appreciation of Nolan declines. Not that he's bad or anything, but I think post-Dark-Knight, he became this go-to "great" filmmaker for 20 year-olds who don't watch a lot of movies. I admire a lot about him and his approach, particularly when it comes to using old-school practical effects whenever possible (from a technical standpoint he's one of the absolute best in the business), but on re-watch, most of his movies suffer from being ridiculously plot-driven and hollow. 

We've replaced an appreciation for complexity of character and emotion with a complexity of plot mechanics, and I think this is a major problem with movies today in general, and Nolan's work in particular.

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Re: Walking It Back?

bullet3 wrote:

 

We've replaced an appreciation for complexity of character and emotion with a complexity of plot mechanics, and I think this is a major problem with movies today in general, and Nolan's work in particular.

Fucking nailed it.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Walking It Back?

Well, we'll see how Interstellar turns out. I'm pretty pumped, mostly thanks to McConaughey.

Sébastien Fraud
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Re: Walking It Back?

Just like Kubrick and Lynch, Nolan has a very specific style. I think it works pretty well for the movies he made so far, but not all movies should be like that.

So honor the valiant who die 'neath your sword
But pity the warrior who slays all his foes...

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Re: Walking It Back?

Marty J wrote:

Just like Kubrick and Lynch, Nolan has a very specific style. I think it works pretty well for the movies he made so far, but not all movies should be like that.

You're conflating style with substance here. Nolan has a very particular style and a very particular absence of substance. DARK KNIGHT works as well as it does because of the Joker. Not only is he entrancing to watch, but he represents a force of chaos opposing order (represented by Batman) in a battle for the soul of Gotham (represented by Dent). There's actual themes and shit going on here. Given the rest of Nolan's work I almost feel like this was a lucky accident. He just does such a good job of making his every film a ride that a lot of people -- myself included, I'll admit -- don't really care. But, ask me what his best film is, and I'll say DARK KNIGHT hands down, and that's why.

You know ultimately, this is the same problem with AVATAR, and why it was so disappointing. AVATAR started with the worldbuilding and put so much effort into it, had this whole world of imagination and style, and then once that was all in place laid it over the least imaginative structure imaginable, just a totally generic hero's journey as an excuse to show the pretty pictures, and it didn't make for a good enough ride -- for my money -- to be forgivable.

I mean, Cameron admits that he only wrote the thing as a way to force the hand of computer graphics and advance that side of things, so it's not all that surprising, but I think the frustration was in knowing that Cameron is capable of being just as imaginative in his storytelling as he is in his visuals.

Having had some years to get over the initial shock, AVATAR isn't "incompetent," it's just clearly not applying itself. But the thing is, nobody really talks about it anymore, because the initial thrill of the visuals has worn off and there's nothing really to connect to underneath. It was supposed to be the next STAR WARS, but Jake isn't Luke, Neytiri isn't Leia, nobody is even trying to be Han, and everybody's Chewie. And we saw how that went for the Holiday Special.

So AVATAR is particularly interesting because I think both sides of the reaction have kind of walked it back and both find themselves with just tepid feelings about it, if they remember it at all.

My walking-back usually happens within the first 24 hours after watching a film. I'll come out thrilled in the afterglow of a film only for the fridge logic to tear it all down (e.g. most Abrams); or I'll come out meh but then mull it over and realize the movie was doing a lot of stuff that I didn't notice as it was going -- fridge genius? -- and decide I actually love it now that I'm on the same page (e.g. most Aronofsky).

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I've walked back on the Kill Bill films and Cloud Atlas, and in both cases it was because of an online movie reviewer. I didn't walk them back very far, but I'm significantly less annoyed with them than I was initially.

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Re: Walking It Back?

Dorkman wrote:

My walking-back usually happens within the first 24 hours after watching a film. I'll come out thrilled in the afterglow of a film only for the fridge logic to tear it all down (e.g. most Abrams); or I'll come out meh but then mull it over and realize the movie was doing a lot of stuff that I didn't notice as it was going -- fridge genius? -- and decide I actually love it now that I'm on the same page (e.g. most Aronofsky).

This.  All day.  THere's literally no point in asking me if I liked a movie as soon as the house lights come up because I'm almost always, "HAPPY!  FILM HAPPENED AT MY FACE AND POPCORN."  It took about two days for my issue with MAN OF STEEL to manifest.  Rare is it a film that I walk out completely hating (BATMAN AND ROBIN) or completely floored because I loved it so much (HER). 

In terms of me walking something back.....The Matrix.  And yeah....I mean the first one.  To me it does not hold up, and it's just not something I particularly enjoy rewatching.  Even the fights feel really old and not terribly good at delivering story or character.

Eddie Doty

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