Transformers 2 nostalgia (Page 3 of 6)

But those shows are clearly parodies of actual cooking shows. CinemaSins presents itself as actual criticism and more importantly people treat it that way. And let's not pretend that these comedy channels on Youtube aren't insanely popular and influential. Hell, I stopped reading Slashfilm because they couldn't stop posting articles about the latest Honest Trailer. And you know why they post them? Their readers eat that shit up. This is not separate from the online film community. It is a part of the online film community. And it's a REALLY bad part.

I'm now more annoyed with Honest Trailers than I was previously; I just took a look at the Amazon reviews for Gravity and a bunch of negative ones said "Yep, the Honest Trailer pretty much summed it up." Way to really think deeply for your review, guys.

Ouch. I felt that burn all the way to Sweden.

Sorry, should've used better language—more annoyed with their effect on the yahoo-ish portion of their fanbase.

Haha, fair enough.

Maybe a better example (to go back to the point of the thread) is the Transformers series. Plenty of people will choose to see Trans4mers this weekend instead of Edge of Tomorrow.

Maybe it's just Sturgeon's Law for people. 90% of people think no more than 2 minutes ahead when it comes to making tv/movie-viewing choices, and viewed in this light, appear to be idiots.

Disclaimer: if you dislike the tone of a post I make, re-read it in a North/East London accent until it sounds sufficiently playful

Okay. I don't think it's unfair to say that people with bad taste shouldn't dominate any arena. These should, ideally, be niche interests. My point was more that people prefer shit that goes down easy to something interesting and challenging. The fact that people like something doesn't make that thing good.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the conversation. This isn't about how the fans act towards the creators. It's about what the fans do with the product outside of the product itself. Fans of CinemaSins don't dictate the content creators, it's the other way around, and that's the problem.

Okay.

1) My argument is that CinemaSins exerts a negative influence on the film community at large. That is all that my argument is.

2) If YOUR argument is that it's okay to knowingly sell something false/bad to unknowing consumers, then I don't understand where you're coming from at all. I don't think that CinemaSins is aware of how shitty they are. But that doesn't excuse their shittiness.

3) I don't think that CinemaSins should change. I don't think that it should exist at all. And if it didn't exist, maybe people would stop using that mode of critical thought. And that would be nice.

4) "I can't believe I have to say this, but content creators don't actually have some amazing mind control over their audience. HT and CS arn't sending out vast waves of ignorant movie goers to plague the internet.  People will do what people are gonna do."

Uh...

I can't believe I have to say this, but ALL media has the ability to influence its audience. Shit, FIYH has been a huge influence on the way I approach film. If you wanna call that "amazing mind control" then whatever.

5) Okay, Pewdiepie is a great example here. His fans are annoying and they suck. But you know why that is? It's because they parrot and praise his original shittiness. You know what this is? It's an anti-gun-control argument. "If people want to [kill/be annoying], they'll find a way to [kill/be annoying] even without [guns/shitty Youtube videos]." But can't we agree that the world would be a better place without ANY guns or shitty Youtube videos? Pewdiepie and CinemaSins aren't "sending out vast legions of people screaming on forums" in that they aren't literally commanding their fanbases to do that. But if you're seriously going to argue that people singing the praises of either of those two things aren't influenced by those things to do so, then I don't know how to respond.

You're losing me here. Are you saying plot hole criticism is the reason people flock to see movies riddled with faulty logic (like Transformers) and shy away from well-made, tightly-written movies (like Edge of Tomorrow)?

It seems to me that the movies that CS and HT tear apart the worst tend to be the worst movies. Not just because of their logic issues, but because they're truly pissed at those movies for lots of reasons and they really want to rip into them.

Sorry, my brain is still just getting caught up on the whole "Shut them down cause they don't believe what I do thing". That just seems remarkably drastic for a comedy show on the internet

1) And that's fine, you can think that all you want. I'll still don't believe it, and outside of a few anecdotal pieces about annoying memebers of the vocal fanbase, I have yet to see any proof of it.

2) See answer number 1. But further, as far as do I think it's okay to say something false/wrong to an audience. That's a very slippery line that has way to many nuances for here, but as a rule, fuck yes I think anyone should be allowed to say whatever they damn well please. That doesn't mean I as a consumer am going to believe whatever you tell me. It's part of being a grown-up type person to actually do your research and not trust the first thing you read in the morning. If you have an issue with that, that's an issue you have with society at large, not CS or HT.

3) A. See my remark at the top. B. Because the most proactive thing to do when encouraging free thought and a society built on critical thinking is to limit public access to only the things you believe in.

4) When it comes to this, I am actually referring to the literal interpretation of it. Clearly all media can be used to coerce or change minds (but see my point in #2), but unless it's something malevolent and conscious on part of the content creators, you have no right to get angry AT THEM about it. They are simply producing content that they think people will watch/enjoy, the fans are the ones that get attracted to it and become vocal. And again if that's your issue, you have a problem with society, not CS or HT, as that happens EVERYWHERE.

EDIT: Couple posts in the time it took me to write this. Teague, I am...now... pumping the breaks. Leaving this here cause *ehh* I wrote it, might as well.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2014-06-29 02:01:59)

I was more comparing plot hole criticism as a concept to Transformers, in that they're both very popular because they're dumb and easy to swallow.

First off, sorry if I've been a dick in this thread. This is something I feel passionate about and sometimes it gets the better of me. Let me answer with a cooler head.

1) You don't have to believe it, but it's happening. Maybe not in the communities that you frequent (i.e. smart communities) but it's allllllllll over the place. Just look at the comments of the videos. Very few people just take them as "comedy videos."

2) That is an issue I have with society at large. I don't think it's okay to peddle garbage. That's a malicious action and I'd stop it if I could. Saying, "Well, I'm able to tell right from wrong so I don't care if people sell bad things because everyone is just as knowledgeable as me!" is not reflective of how the world works. It's like saying, "Part of being a grown-up is learning to recognize poisoned food, so why should I care if people serve poisoned food to other people?"

3) You're twisting my argument. I'm advocating for an open-minded approach to a wide spectrum of criticism, not the narrow-minded, reductive stuff that CinemaSins promotes. And I wouldn't even care about it if it wasn't so popular. If it wasn't the majority.

4) It really doesn't matter what the creators intended. It's having an effect, so it's fair to say, "Hey, maybe they should recognize this effect and change their content to avert it." I honestly can't comprehend this argument. Their content contains a rhetoric that I find poisonous to a community that I love. They created this virus. You can't pin the blame solely on the people spreading it.

Again, I really don't mean to sound like a jerk about this. I'm just trying to defend my field.