Re: The Future of Star Wars

SPOILER Show
I looked it up cause I was curious, and Maul was a reoccurring character through the last 3-4 seasons of Clone Wars, and has been in a couple of Rebels episodes as well. And with Disney repeated assurances that Clone Wars and Rebels are part of new canon, it was probably really only a matter of time until he made the transition back to the big screen. I'm just kinda curious why they chose Solo of all things.

But yeah, true to their word, Disney is going off the beaten trail for the SW Stories, so good on them I guess. Definitely would not have called it, but I'm down for it.

EDIT: Also apparently they also killed off Maul in Rebels, he and old man Obi Wan fight it out. So I guess that explains why they're cool bringing him back for this period of the timeline, not really spoiling much if you've already shown his death.

ZangrethorDigital.ca
youtube.com/bigdamnartist

Re: The Future of Star Wars

BigDamnArtist wrote:

SPOILER Show
But yeah, true to their word, Disney is going off the beaten trail for the SW Stories, so good on them I guess. Definitely would not have called it, but I'm down for it.

SPOILER Show
If they were being crazy in a good way, sure, but this is just utter nonsense that shrinks the universe even further. It might even be worse than Darth Vader building Threepio. EVERYONE knows EVERYONE in this damn universe.

Re: The Future of Star Wars

SPOILER Show
"EVERYONE knows EVERYONE in this damn universe."

And yet, almost nobody knows a black person.

SPOILER Show
Hell, they have to keep re-claiming the ones they already know.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Future of Star Wars

  Show
Being the nerd here who watched all of Clone Wars & Rebels, I think Maul's appearance in Solo actually makes a fair bit of sense.

The film itself is worth watching though. Most of the group I went with didn't have the highest of expectations, but everyone came out quite pleasantly surprised.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Future of Star Wars

What's your opinion of... the plot point in question?

(I wanted a temporary repreive from the spoiler tag.  tongue )

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Future of Star Wars

  Show
For anyone who's not seen it/not planning to see it, here's how it goes. Paul Bettany's character works for an organisation called Crimson Dawn, basically another crime syndicate like the Hutt's or Black Sun. At the end, Emilia Clarke gets on the ol' hologram to tell the head honcho that Paul Bettany is dead and ZOMG IT'S MAUL! That's pretty much all there is to it really. He's voiced by Sam Witwer, who voices Maul in the animated shows and according to the credits was physically played by Ray Park again.

(edit: Almost forgot, but it does set up potential sequels and I can see Maul working well as an 'iconic big bad', not central to the Empire vs Rebels conflict, that can be used for stories told in this time period.)

Now maybe it's because I'm a fan of Clone Wars/Rebels, but I actually really like having Maul here. There's a nice gap that this helps bridge between where we left Maul in Clone Wars; fueled by anger, rallying together all the crime syndicates to fight on his side, and when we meet up with him again as an almost sad old man in Rebels.

To the casual fans/anybody who doesn't keep up with the animated stuff, I can totally see it as coming out of left-field and just being an absolutely baffling decision. But for someone like me? I think it's a great touch.

Last edited by Queefward (2018-05-24 22:45:01)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

132

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Just saw it. I'm with Queefward. Odd decision but after my initial "C'mon, really?" I'd say it works.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: The Future of Star Wars

SPOILER Show
Haven't seen it yet, but I didn't care about spoilers so here I am tongue
I personally didn't like any of the animated stuff, particularly the fact Maul survived his bisection. That was very dopey...

but it's Star Wars, lot of the stuff is dopey. I think the fact he's in here is dumb, but that's because I think him surviving Menace is dumb, but that's because I think him being killed in the the first place is dumb. So, my issue with him being in Solo just goes back to my problem with Menace....

So meh, I'm good with it. Doesn't make me want to see the movie more or less tonight. And, what does tip the scale in favor of Maul is that maybe Ray Park gets to play Maul going forward for a while. Sure, these "star wars story" movies are "unnecessary" in the sense that they don't need to be told...but most stories are?

Sorry, now I'm getting into other criticism, but whatever. Rogue One wasn't necessary, but I thought it was great. Solo may not be necessary, but apparently it's not bad. Boba Fett or Obi-Wan are apparently getting movies. Necessary? No. But if they're good, who cares? And if they're bad, I can still enjoy the good ones.
People often remark that we're scraping the barrel with origin stories, but it all depends on whether effort is put into making the story good.
Hell, Ice Cream Maker guy could be given a truly deep story that surprises everyone. So could Boba Fett, or Lando. No story is necessary. Star Wars wasn't necessary. Empire wasn't. Jedi wasn't. But that doesn't mean they can't be good. Doesn't mean they can't be terrible, either.

Mod edit: Spoiler tags.

Last edited by Boter (2018-05-25 14:22:56)

Witness me!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Might wanna add some spoiler tags there!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Oops. Sorry tongue

Witness me!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

136

Re: The Future of Star Wars

I just saw it and...man, you know what? I really fucking liked it.

I noticed something with this movie: With the Anthology movies, Star Wars is a serial now. Congratulations, George, the thing has come full circle. And with that, a lot of things fall into place for me:

  Show
They all don't even try to sound like the character they're playing, and the robot doesn't fit into any version of the Star Wars universe that I know of. But...who cares? We've gotten medieval Batman and...the entire Marvel Universe and all its batshit crazy hijinks, so why can't the Star Wars universe get some more departures or stylized interpretations?

This movie is if Steven Spielberg had directed a Han Solo movie in 2018 rather than an Indiana Jones movie in 1981 (the similarities between this and Raiders are too numerous for it to be just a coincidence). It's kinda dumb, and sort of tacky at times, but it also has a ton of style (I fell in love with the WWI/II aesthetic...very interesting idea) and is just fun as hell. I found myself laughing and smiling a lot, but also a few moments in this movie really qualified for "spectacle," which doesn't happen so often anymore. Though, the fan service got a bit out of control.

The Maul thing? I loved it. Great idea. It really solidifies the very EU-esque feeling that the newer Star Wars movies are starting to adopt (most notably with The Last Jedi), which is a thing I was really hoping Disney would do. It also leaves room to develop more standalone movies in this era (which is cool, since this is really the first movie that's taken place in the years between III and IV -- I'm not counting Rogue One since it takes place literal days before IV), with Han a recurring but not necessarily at-all-times an important or central one.

Oh, and John Powell is the John Williams successor we deserve. Jesus christ, man. What a score.

All in all...yeah, I think I might just be on board with this Disney Star Wars thing. I think I'm getting it, and it's a cool thing to watch unfold.

Re: The Future of Star Wars

I would put Solo in the "a little flawed, but enjoyable" category, just like the previous three Disney SW movies.

SPOILER Show
Seems like 99% of videos about The Last Jedi were made by right-wing kooks who can't stand a Star Wars movie that passes the Bechdel Test. I wonder if L3's "robo-feminist" personality was a conscious attempt to troll those yahoos big_smile

We all float down here...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Future of Star Wars

SPOILER Show
I hate what they did to the Kessel Run and the Maw (Pretty CG clouds full of lightning signalling 'scary dangerous place' is not that interesting anymore), and I especially hate the wacky tentacle monster they put in it (That thing and those stupid things from TFA just don't feel like they fit the star wars aesthetic to me), but other than that I actually really liked this movie. I'm not into the fact that Maul survived, but if we're already committed to that, then having him here is fine, whatever. I'm totally loved Tobias Beckett, what a perfect badass to be Han's mentor. Dryden and the Crimson Dawn where great, Enfys Nest and the marauders where great, the way Qi'ra leaves Han but doesn't actually betray him is perfect. Whether or not it was intentional, I loved the homage to Squeaky and the Runaway Droid Ride. Basically, 90% of this movie is fucking great.

"ShadowDuelist is a god."
        -Teague Chrystie

Thumbs up Thumbs down

139

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Cool podcast between YouTube channels The Templin Institute, Spacedock, Star Wars Explained, and Eckart's Ladder.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Welp, despite insisting I wasn't gonna see it I got dragged anyway. God, what a nothing of a movie.

SPOILER Show
The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi both engage with the iconography of the OT in really interesting ways, as a commentary on both the world of Star Wars and our relationship with the franchise. Solo uses it as cheap fanwank. In this movie, we learn the origins of

1. Han's last name
2. Chewie's nickname
3. Han's blaster
4. The Millennium Falcon's navicomputer
5. Han's familiarity with YT-1300 freighters
6. The helmet Lando wears in Jabba's palace
7. The fucking dice that hang over the windshield

among other things. Never once did it occur to the screenwriters (Kasdan and his son) that most if not all of these things are all just, y'know, textures of the universe that don't need any kind of fucking explanation whatsoever. Instead we get to see them explained at eyerolling length so fans can pat themselves on the back for spotting the obvious reference. It's kind of nauseating.

Not a single action sequence is filmed in a unique way. A maglev train that rotates round its track is something you could do so much with, and the movie basically abandons the concept after a single beat. Ehrenreich is fine as Han but has absolutely nothing to work with; Emilia Clarke is an utter void of charisma as his love interest; and Donald Glover is basically doing a very one-note impression of Billy Dee Williams.

The plot is a structureless mess that drags on longer than Revenge of the Sith for no real reason, and then decides it's a good idea to tie Han into the birth of the Rebellion because of fucking course it does. It can never let him be too cynical—rather than characterizing him as the heel he was before he met up with Luke, it has to play things safe by making him a generic, quippy hero with a heart of gold and it's just. So. Fucking boring.

Oh, and the idea of a suffragist droid who has sex with Lando was horribly executed from beginning to end. It's a terrible idea to open the whole can of worms that is droid rights in the first place, but couple that with obnoxious characterization and the sheer gall the writers have to call Lando "pansexual" in interviews while having him hook up with a robot for laughs rather than an actual human male and it's just appalling. What a joke.

This is making it sound like I hated this thing way more than I did, because it's already fading from my memory. It's just another generic, bloated, structureless action slog that no one will remember in a decade, like every other bad reboot or sequel made these days. And say what you will about the prequels, they're at least memorable in their badness.

I love the direction Disney has taken the main saga movies, and I'm so excited for IX. But if this is the direction they go with the spinoffs, I'm out.

Revised ranking:

ESB > SW > TLJ > TFA > ROTJ > RO > ROTS > TPM > Solo > AOTC

Last edited by DarthPraxus (2018-06-04 04:34:11)

Re: The Future of Star Wars

In short; I surprisingly enough, enjoyed it.

More detail to come in the next EE podcast!

Tomahawk Ellingsen

www.extendededition.net

Re: The Future of Star Wars

DarthPraxus wrote:

Welp, despite insisting I wasn't gonna see it I got dragged anyway. God, what a nothing of a movie.

If you're really saying this is worse than The Phantom Menace, I think you'll need to hand in your pass to review movies.

sorry!

Extended Edition - 140 Solo: A Star Wars Story!
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Faldor wrote:

If you're really saying this is worse than The Phantom Menace, I think you'll need to hand in your pass to review movies.

sorry!

Hey, like I said, at least ROTS and TPM are memorable in their badness. The same goes for AOTC, but it's literally nauseating to sit through.

The friend I went with said "You can tell this was stapled together from 20 different drafts." He was wrong--this was apparently Kasdan's dream project--but the fact that he got that impression says a lot about the movie, I think. For better or worse, the prequels were clearly written and directed by George Lucas. If I hadn't known going in that Solo was written by Kasdan and his son I would have thought it was assembled by a committee of writers too. And when it comes to Star Wars, for the most part I'll take horrible but memorable over inoffensive but meaningless any day. (Except, again, where AOTC is concerned.)

Re: The Future of Star Wars

You know, I think you're coming at it from the wrong angle.

First off, you come across as someone who absolutely didn't want it. Me too, honestly, I didn't like the concept at all.
But then you fire off all your cylinders as someone who hates this with a passion, almost as if you went into the cinema with a desire to shit so hard on this film, it was bantha poodoo before it was even able to convey one frame of information.

Was it the best? No, not by far. But was it up to Star Wars par? absolutely. People of your kind tend to praise the OT like it was the best thing to happen to cinema ever, but also tend to forget that the PT is by all accounts, also Canon. As is all the new moview happening right now, and, judging by all now 10 movies, this felt a lot more like "Star Wars" then the PT ever did, regardless of what 2 movies you'd prefer over Solo.

I won't go into too much detail, because I'm not putting spoiler tags into it, but as far as character development and writing, this one does a helluva better job than the stale performances and lines of the OT, and while the story isn't at all neccessary, it sure as hell delivers a much more solid story and plot than AOTC/TPM/ROTS ever did.

What I'm saying is direction and script is key, and simply because Lucas didn't write or direct Solo, or R1, for that matter, should automatically make it better, but, just so turns out to; it does.


Now, I'm not getting into a debate whether or not your personal opinion is sound here, I just think from a cinematic/screenwriter/director point of view; you're wrong.

Tomahawk Ellingsen

www.extendededition.net

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Love ya, Tom, but at least two things in this post aren't okay: A) 'people of your kind'; B) the whole last sentence.

You can contribute to a conversation involving personal opinions, or stay out of it. What you can't do is A) shoot unsupported ad hominems at someone else's opinion, and then B) refuse to debate your reasons. That's trolling.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Future of Star Wars

*shrugs* I mean, you're free to consider my approach unsound, but I really don't consider the OT holy. TLJ and TFA are both leagues better than ROTJ  (which I still adore, mind you). And I'm also forgetting the prequels are canon even though I ranked two of them over Solo? I'm honestly just confused by that remark.

I agree that direction and script are key; you'll notice I criticized both in my initial post. It's not that I think the direction and the dialogue of the PT are *good*; I don't like those films and think they're atrociously executed. But there is a mad vision there, one that I find far more compelling in its failure than I find Solo in its middling success. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the direction of Solo (though I'll contend there's a ton wrong with the script)--there's just also nothing breathtaking or ambitious about it either. And while I hate the prequels, they have those qualities in scads.

As to whether I was determined to hate the movie going in--yeah, I'll admit, I wasn't looking forward to it. But I also... don't think that renders my opinion invalid? I went into Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets, for example, expecting it to suck and had a blast instead. Just because my initial feelings toward Solo were that it would be bad doesn't mean I twisted everything about it to fit my worldview. It's a workmanlike, uninspired, bloated film that I just have no interest in ever revisiting.

Star Wars was a massive part of my life and still is, but just because I love the OT doesn't mean I'm incapable of looking at its flaws or appreciating new Star Wars. Leia's role gets less vital with each installment of the trilogy. The dialogue in the first film is wooden. ROTJ has massive structural and tonal issues. I don't think they're some holy gospel. But that doesn't mean I can't still find them good and find Solo a nothing movie, or that my reasons for each can be completely dismissed because of "people of my kind."

Last edited by DarthPraxus (2018-06-04 22:30:00)

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Also, I feel like I should make it clear since I came off as pretty grouchy in my first post--I have absolutely no problem with people who did like the movie. I love TFA and TLJ and lord knows there are segments of the internet that hate both, so it's not like I think you're not a true fan or good movie critic if you like this one. We all have our facets of SW we enjoy. And hey, I liked Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets. tongue

Last edited by DarthPraxus (2018-06-04 22:50:20)

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Whilst I enjoyed Solo, I know where people are coming from with the whole "Does this story need to be told" angle. When Rogue One came out I said how I was surprised they didn't schedule Solo first as it seemed like a pretty safe bet.

When the new films were announced a lot of people were wary of these movies being pumped out like this and I wouldnt be surprised if Disney didn't slow things down for a while or if it was the reason that we havent yet had an official announcement for Kenobi and Boba Fett just yet.

Extended Edition - 140 Solo: A Star Wars Story!
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Faldor wrote:

I wouldnt be surprised if Disney didn't slow things down for a while

They're going to, apparently. Can't remember where I read this but Solo not exactly being a huge box office hit, they're gonna go back to a one-per-year ratio.

Sébastien Fraud
Facebook | Twitter | 500px
"We're gonna build a great green screen, and make the traditional matte painters pay for it"
Saniss for President 2016 - "Make VFX great again"

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

150

Re: The Future of Star Wars

Faldor, I was one of those that found Solo unneccesary, but I still enjoyed it. The A.C. Crispin trilogy is still a more complete story in my opinion (it better be) but Solo works well for a movie.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.