Topic: Movie ratings and children

Over Christmas lunch the topic of movie ratings and how they affect or do not affect children came up. It transpired that one of my nephews was going to be taken to see the third Hobbit movie. He's only 8 years old and so wouldn't likely be allowed in, but had seen the first two movies. His father (my brother) remarked on how violent he thought the Hobbit movies were and how inappropriate they were for children. There's a fair amount of arrows being fired into orc heads, a couple beheadings and takedown moves, most notably during the barrel chase scene. Perhaps it's ok because the orcs aren't human, but it's still technically violence.

So the topic turned to films we watched when growing up and how we saw films that were rated way above our age - Aliens, Predator, High Plains Drifter, the Carry On films, Excalibur and so on. One of my favourite movies is the Vikings, which ends in a spectacular castle battle, as do a number of Bond films. We also had watched a lot of cowboy films with John Wayne (and Eastwood) and the Heston classics. Did these films adversely affect our psyche? Is showing violent imagery to children an automatically bad thing? Children often mirror what they see, but violence is dominant in a lot of stories (Teletubbies aside perhaps) from the old fairy tales (William Tell in the story ends up murdering the bad noble) and classics to the modern cartoons. But does the cartoonish or clean violence (e.g. John Wayne movies etc.) distance children from the reality and consequence of violence? Participants don't feel pain when they're hit, they make the Wilhelm scream when an indian arrow hits, people fall down - the notion of that person no longer continuing to live is usually obscured (except for Optimus Prime).

I guess what I'm asking is whether more realism in violence, e.g. showing what happens when a sword hits someone's body, would actually show children that violence isn't a form of play.

My other brother has a 2-year old that he's been shielding from violent things to the point of obscuring the purpose of guns (in toys etc.) and not promoting play with toys which have weapons - but oddly enough, the little fella will repeatedly collide two cars together and imagine accidents. It got me thinking of whether violence isn't innate.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Movie ratings and children

As someone who grew up with hard-R rated action films since age 6, I can say I both had a way more fun childhood as a result, and grew up into a normal well adjusted adult. I don't see the value in sugar-coating violence, and unless you're a crazy person, I would think you grow up with a certain sense of morality, and are able to separate fiction from reality.

And besides, most AAA videogames are way more violent than anything in these movies, and everyone's playing those, so it's not like you're really protecting them from anything.

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Re: Movie ratings and children

I think it's an interesting question about depicting violence more realistically though, making the weight of it less easy to dismiss. When I was a tiny person, violence was someone shooting a gun and then someone else falling down without any blood. And then I distinctly remember seeing a bit of Die Hard on tv and for whatever reason, the bullet squibs detonated pretty chunkily and I remember thinking that this was more serious, on a different level entirely. So that did do something to me in terms of making some distinction between consequenceless images on a screen and something to take seriously.

Though, the other part of the equation is the way in which you're exposed to these films. As I've gotten older, I've really appreciated my mum's approach to the films she let me and my brother watch. It came down to:
*if there's swearing: "they shouldn't be saying that, and I don't want you to say those words in public"
*nudity: "it's natural, and there's nothing wrong with it."
*violence: "it's not real, it's just a film, but it's wrong to hurt people in real-life".

And 99% of the time she would still let us watch the film. It sounds almost stupidly straightforward. Don't just throw a movie on, have a teeny little talk with your kids and they'll turn out fine.

edit: i think most of the times she vetoed a film was 'cause of sex. but even that she would treat on a case-by-case basis. she was fine with us watching Beverly Hills Cop, which has a stripclub scene with boobies.
the one film i never understood her vetoing though was The Usual Suspects. hmm.

Last edited by Herc (2014-12-30 22:13:45)

Disclaimer: if you dislike the tone of a post I make, re-read it in a North/East London accent until it sounds sufficiently playful smile

Re: Movie ratings and children

Short answer: know your kid.  Know what their limits are, what frightens them, makes them laugh, makes them cry.  Most importantly, know WHY.  My son watched MMA with me when I know its not going to be a bloody fight.  He's not phased by that.  Andy Serkis' voice in the new Star Wars trailer?  TERRIFIED HIM.  Hands over ears, eyes shut, "NO, NO DADDY!"  So what does that (and my countless other observations) tell me?  He's not afraid of the physical.  He's not afraid of stuff happening to our bodies.  But tone and mood can wreck him if I don't present it well.  SO...I act accordingly.  I show him stuff that's within his comfort zone, but up to the edge of it, with the goal of expanding it.  Because that should be the goal of all us parents.  Media is out there and younger an younger kids are getting bombarded by it and with an unprecedented amount of access to it.  It's going to be out of my hands sooner than later.  All I can do is not insult his intelligence, lead and occasionally push, and most importantly of all, digest and discuss everything we see together.  I say, take them to Hobbit.  TALK about beheadings and why in that scenario its ok.  Drew McWeeny just showed DIE HARD to his kids, and his oldest accidentally let a "Yippe Kai Yay MOTHER FUCKER," before realizing what he said.  Drew calmly responded, "Buddy we don't ever say that word.  John McClaine is fighting terrorists, he has an excuse."

Whats the worst that happens?  A discussion?  We should be welcoming all that.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Movie ratings and children

Virtually all play in all animals is a rehearsal for hunting, fighting, and fleeing. If you shield children from that, you merely create a child who can't cope with conflict and can't act in a crisis.

The only things to shield children from, in my book, are excessive sexuality--which is just confusing and gross if you don't have the hormones for it--and very scary things. You and I may get a certain thrill out of being made to feel vulnerable by a movie, but children are so vulnerable already that they just feel terror. Every kid is different, tho, and will come out from behind the couch when he or she is ready.

BUT, I am not a father (just the world's greatest uncle).

EDIT: However, I am on record on his forum as saying I wish that film makers would put the TV cut on disks as an extra. A lot of movies from the '80s (like Police Academy, which I just watched) would be great fun for kids if they weren't filled with F-bombs and a couple of gratuitous nude scenes that were sometimes put in just to UP the rating because R-rated movies were more popular at the time.

Last edited by Zarban (2014-12-30 22:54:40)

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

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Re: Movie ratings and children

doty

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Re: Movie ratings and children

Zarban wrote:

EDIT: However, I am on record on his forum as saying I wish that film makers would put the TV cut on disks as an extra. A lot of movies from the '80s (like Police Academy, which I just watched) would be great fun for kids if they weren't filled with F-bombs and a couple of gratuitous nude scenes that were sometimes put in just to UP the rating because R-rated movies were more popular at the time.

Ohhh! Yes!

Disclaimer: if you dislike the tone of a post I make, re-read it in a North/East London accent until it sounds sufficiently playful smile

Re: Movie ratings and children

Herc wrote:
Zarban wrote:

EDIT: However, I am on record on his forum as saying I wish that film makers would put the TV cut on disks as an extra. A lot of movies from the '80s (like Police Academy, which I just watched) would be great fun for kids if they weren't filled with F-bombs and a couple of gratuitous nude scenes that were sometimes put in just to UP the rating because R-rated movies were more popular at the time.

Ohhh! Yes!

I agree with this sentiment. This should be a thing smile

Edit: I happen to be watching "The Pacifier" and this story time seemed somewhat on topic:

Last edited by fireproof78 (2014-12-31 04:11:28)

God loves you!

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Re: Movie ratings and children

I grew up on TV edits of movies. Blues Brothers, Excalibur, Animal House. It's kind of sad that my niece will have to wait a half decade longer to see The Blues Brothers than I did.

Oh, somewhat related to what Eddy said, when my niece was four I had her yelling "Yippe Kai Yay!" while I pushed her on the swings. I let any adults nearby fill in the rest smile

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Movie ratings and children

Zarban wrote:

EDIT: However, I am on record on his forum as saying I wish that film makers would put the TV cut on disks as an extra. A lot of movies from the '80s (like Police Academy, which I just watched) would be great fun for kids if they weren't filled with F-bombs and a couple of gratuitous nude scenes that were sometimes put in just to UP the rating because R-rated movies were more popular at the time.

Absolutely positively. Only one I can think of is the Criterion Repo Man, which is kind of a special case.

I keep forgetting that, like Invid, I grew up with the tv versions of movies, so I'm watching Top Secret with my 8-year old daughter and she thinks it's the funniest thing ever, and then the scene comes up with the Anal Intruder sex toy.  Whoops.

For the next hour, everything in this post is strictly based on the available facts.

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Re: Movie ratings and children

To be fair the rest of the police academy movies get progressively more kid friendly, and I can attest to growing up with 3-6 on in regular rotation

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Re: Movie ratings and children

I actually watched PA 3 regularly, even when I was younger.

As for ratings, I think Eddie is right about knowing your kids. I am still cautious about things with my two kids, but they have seen some snippets of the Hobbit, and are aware that it is "pretend." My 5 year old is rather precocious in some ways and really can inform me of her feelings about things. I enjoy hearing her thoughts on different topics some times too (especially her thoughts on the sequel for Frozen wink ).

God loves you!

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Re: Movie ratings and children

Recently, I've been making my own "TV edits" for films I want my boys to appreciate but not necessarily scar them. Mostly removing obscene language or bloody violence or nudity (they are 11 & 13)

I think it may be technically illegal but it's only within my home so whatever.

They've now seen edited versions of Crimson Tide, The Rock and Blackhawk Down to name a few. When they were younger, I was editing PG-13 movies like Episode III and Transformers to make them a bit more palatable for their ages at the time.

Now, though, I've been taking them to select PG-13 movies and have introduced them to The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit sagas and they are all about it. I just know which movies are going to be ok for them and which won't.  You just gotta know your kids.

Last edited by pastormacman (2015-01-02 07:26:32)

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Re: Movie ratings and children

While I certainly understand Pastor's impulse here, I cannot agree with that method for my kids.  They're either ready for all of it, or not.  I tend to err on the side of a pinch too not ready for it.  I tell the story of my Dad not showing me Vertigo until I had had the requisite life experience for it to resonate with me.  I had seen much more violent or graphic material prior to that.  It's a different line for each parent and each child, but I don't know that editing the material is sending the right message either. 

Drew McWeeny wrote about his first r rated movie experience with his son, and I think it's a good point of reference. 
http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/f … terminator

Eddie Doty

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