Topic: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Do a google search for trailer images, and it's just a wall of amorphous shapes slathered in toxic gas green.

It's quite stunning to watch the difference from ID4 to this one. The first Independence Day is extremely well photographed, in my opinion, from minuatures up.

I mean jesus, the new film looks like it takes place on an alien planet judging by the look of everything. Not a single image from the trailer reminds me of anything I'd see in real life. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to connect to any of it.

The trend continues, it seems. I'd love to hear the rationale behind the choice. Hell, maybe earth is a cold looking wasteland shrouded in a green mist of toxic fumes for all I know...


I can't believe we've gone from this:

http://i.imgur.com/woSkR70.png


to this:

http://static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/08163142/independence-day-resurgence-trailer-00.jpg


The first image seems so relatable, natural, earth-like colors, a window frame anyone could identify with, and the the huge contrast with the ship.

The second image... jesus, I can't tell what's going on, never mind what planet it's happening on.

Last edited by TechNoir (2016-06-15 17:40:29)

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Remember that Independence Day, Seven, The Princess Bride, and Casablanca were all colored with chemicals and math in a dark room, and everything since the early 2000's has been photoshopped seventeen times before being seen by anybody. *shrug* It's not even a difference in photography after a certain point, but a difference in universes.

I mean, it does look like ass, in my opinion, but I have that opinion about a lot of things.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Teague wrote:

Remember that Independence Day, Seven, The Princess Bride, and Casablanca were all colored with chemicals and math in a dark room, and everything since the early 2000's has been photoshopped seventeen times before being seen by anybody. *shrug* It's not even a difference in photography after a certain point, but a difference in universes.

I mean, it does look like ass, in my opinion, but I have that opinion about a lot of things.


True. I guess my main point is that, indeed, it does look like garbage. I guess I'm just depressed that someone like a director of photography, who I would imagine has quite a say in the visual presentation and probably (hopefully) was with the colorist would let something like this happen.

It just seems entirely braindead and unmotivated, I cannot imagine what it's supposed to do, other than just convey "sci-fi" to a general audience and hope the green buys them some automatic bonus points for looking like the other things in the genre.

I'd imagine at some point there must at least be someone who designed something, like the colors of makeup or wardrobe, and then sees the final images and kind of vomits in their own mouths just a little bit at the monochrome teal.


Maybe I wouldn't even care if I wasn't interested in photography myself.  hmm

A example I did a while ago was the coloring of "The Other Guys", the Will Ferrell comedy. It's not even sci-fi, and skin color looks so disgusting with teal creeping into the shadows, like there's green moss growing in the folds of the actors face. Ugh.

A screenshot from the film:
http://i.imgur.com/FujWUGU.jpg

Corrected:
http://i.imgur.com/Ienc17g.jpg

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Yeah.  hmm

There are answers to these questions, and nobody likes any of them. I'd lay out some of the major ones, but I'm at work and must resist writing a treatise.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Teague wrote:

Yeah.  hmm

There are answers to these questions, and nobody likes any of them. I'd lay out some of the major ones, but I'm at work and must resist writing a treatise.

I'm a few hours ahead, didn't even consider some of us still have work to do.  wink Hope you're doing well Teague.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

TechNoir wrote:

The first image seems so relatable, natural, earth-like colors, a window frame anyone could identify with, and the the huge contrast with the ship.

The second image... jesus, I can't tell what's going on, never mind what planet it's happening on.

It's London, the weather is always a bit shit...

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Faldor wrote:
TechNoir wrote:

The first image seems so relatable, natural, earth-like colors, a window frame anyone could identify with, and the the huge contrast with the ship.

The second image... jesus, I can't tell what's going on, never mind what planet it's happening on.

It's London, the weather is always a bit shit...

Like cats and dogs... Literally.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Teague wrote:

Yeah.  hmm

There are answers to these questions, and nobody likes any of them. I'd lay out some of the major ones, but I'm at work and must resist writing a treatise.

As someone who recently enjoyed your and Ryan's treatise on the issues involved in being a VFX artist, I'll happily devote as many hours as necessary to absorb another one on color in film.

For the next hour, everything in this post is strictly based on the available facts.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Hey, cool! Thanks.  big_smile

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

I would totally listen to a "color in film" podcast. It would also be neat to hear about the reasons why some films have different color grading on DVD/Bluray from their theatrical release.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Thing is, the "corrected" shot from The Other Guys also looks like shit. It looks precisely like the Raimi Spiderman movies.

I think the ideal is some place in between the two, but also, yeah, maybe not so much emphasis on the teal. The Dark Knight and The Matrix pulled off that look, but anything with Will Ferrell just shouldn't even go there.

Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

I don't think we should be so concerned about shots looking "good," or pleasing to the eye. Most of the time, real life doesn't look pretty. I'll take a shot that looks real over "stunning" any day.

This is not to say that stunning and gorgeous shots don't have their place (they have lots of places), but I think it's safe to say that things have gotten out of hand lately.

This is probably my biggest issue with the Hobbit movies, and one of the key indicators of the flawed vision/philosophy behind which they were made.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Alex wrote:

Thing is, the "corrected" shot from The Other Guys also looks like shit. It looks precisely like the Raimi Spiderman movies.

I think the ideal is some place in between the two, but also, yeah, maybe not so much emphasis on the teal. The Dark Knight and The Matrix pulled off that look, but anything with Will Ferrell just shouldn't even go there.


To be honest I don't remember the 1st Spiderman to look bad. I think a few sequences were a bit too red-yellow looking which I think is your complaint (the Green Goblin parade attack being the biggest one, where this still comes from: http://www.rellimzone.com/images/movies … e-06.png), plus the lighting was a bit uninteresting in some sequences.

I'm looking at a bluray copy now and to me the biggest problem I have is that it looks pan&scan due to, in my opinion, slightly too tight framing in most scenes, even though 1.85 was the intended frame from what I've read. I'm skipping around and so much seems to be medium or close-up shots, but claustrophobically tight a lot of the time.

Spiderman 2 has much of the same color palette, only it's widescreen since they wanted to fit Doc Oc and spiderman into the same frame.
Color to me looks fine, neutral, no real tints in either way mostly. Anything in particular that bothers you with the look of the Spidey movies?


I think I read the Dark Knight was finished without a Digital Intermediate, so while they likely did global timing/optical color corrections of scenes in the print, they didn't actually do split toning or any other color changes. At most they likely simply made a blue hour shot slightly less blue or green, basic adjustments to make daylight scenes look neutral and not slightly warm or cold, etc.
I think you and I are the same there, those types of changes never really bother me. It's like looking at a scene through a colored glass. However pushing colors around only in certain areas of the spectrum is where it tends to become more problematic, since you end up with completely normal skintones in the midrange, but then a green tint in shadow areas, which looks very unnatural.

Taking "Heat" as an example, I believe they used Tungsten balanced stock in daylight with no correcting filter, giving the daylight scenes a cold tone. They didn't unnaturally saturate orange skintones back into the image, so it has a very uniform, "natural" looking tint:

http://i.imgur.com/WBY4ZEh.png

However I do remember the 1st Matrix not bothering me, but the 2nd and 3rd ones for some reason I don't like the look of. I think the coloring is pretty much identical between all 3, but the film stock used for the first gives it a grit that the 2nd and 3rd don't have, and that makes the green cast not work as well to my eyes due to the clarity of the 2nd and 3rd. Maybe that's just me though. smile

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

First Matrix is definitely more tastefully done with the green. The sequels are just GREEN, but that may be a feature, not a bug--the Matrix was being "taken over" by Smith, so progressively intensifying the green-ness was a way to show that.

My problem with the Raimi Spiderman movies is pretty much identical to Brian's, so if you've listened to the podcast (which you should) I'm basically just repeating what he's said.

I don't wanna go on forever, but basically the movies are lit and colored like soap operas. Clearly they're going for a "real life with a bit of comic book pop," but for one reason or another it just doesn't take; instead, everyone looks like skin surrounded by primary colors, all lit with no shadows (or too many--either way, it's always unnatural). Maybe it's exacerbated by the fact that every line is written like it's being said by an alien trying to blend in.

I just can't stand those movies. Even the second one, which is apparently the "really good one," is awful IMO. There's more to it than the coloring/lighting/dialogue, though, which is beyond the scope of this thread.

Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Alex wrote:

First Matrix is definitely more tastefully done with the green. The sequels are just GREEN, but that may be a feature, not a bug--the Matrix was being "taken over" by Smith, so progressively intensifying the green-ness was a way to show that.

My problem with the Raimi Spiderman movies is pretty much identical to Brian's, so if you've listened to the podcast (which you should) I'm basically just repeating what he's said.

I don't wanna go on forever, but basically the movies are lit and colored like soap operas. Clearly they're going for a "real life with a bit of comic book pop," but for one reason or another it just doesn't take; instead, everyone looks like skin surrounded by primary colors, all lit with no shadows (or too many--either way, it's always unnatural). Maybe it's exacerbated by the fact that every line is written like it's being said by an alien trying to blend in.

I just can't stand those movies. Even the second one, which is apparently the "really good one," is awful IMO. There's more to it than the coloring/lighting/dialogue, though, which is beyond the scope of this thread.


That clarifies it, thanks Alex. Considering Bill Pope shot both Spidey 2 and The Matrix, it was probably Raimi or someone else who wanted that look.

There definitely seems to be some warming filter at play in the first Spiderman at times (if not achieved in post), and when comparing to a more neutral, conventional look it's kind of obvious, and it does look like a soft, flat warm soap-y scene, shot through a red curtain. At times it looks like the negative doesn't have any contrast put back into it and was just left with the shadows open.

For fun I grabbed a PNG of what is probably the worst-looking scene I remember for the first one:

http://i.imgur.com/da1ocvL.jpg


And here it is with some added contrast, and kind of neutralizing the warming filter:

http://i.imgur.com/uS4BH3P.jpg

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

The term we may be looking for is 'high-key lighting.'

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Teague wrote:

The term we may be looking for is 'high-key lighting.'


Yeah, Spidey 2 is a lot better on every level of cinematography. The more I'm watching the first one, the more claustrophobic I get from the tight shots, the more the skintones bother me, and the overall look. The camera angles seem clunky, there's no sense of the space they're in. Sometimes you don't see the lightsources via an establishing shot of sorts, making the light sources seem nebulous.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

I've decided to prevent myself from ever getting started on Spider-Man 2 again, so I shall refrain from going there, but... you know, as a heuristic, you can assume with relative safety that any negative opinion you have of that film is one that I'd share.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

The Spidey FIYH you guys recorded are hugely entertaining Teague. smile

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

TechNoir wrote:

That clarifies it, thanks Alex. Considering Bill Pope shot both Spidey 2 and The Matrix, it was probably Raimi or someone else who wanted that look.

There definitely seems to be some warming filter at play in the first Spiderman at times (if not achieved in post), and when comparing to a more neutral, conventional look it's kind of obvious, and it does look like a soft, flat warm soap-y scene, shot through a red curtain. At times it looks like the negative doesn't have any contrast put back into it and was just left with the shadows open.

For fun I grabbed a PNG of what is probably the worst-looking scene I remember for the first one:

http://i.imgur.com/da1ocvL.jpg


And here it is with some added contrast, and kind of neutralizing the warming filter:

http://i.imgur.com/uS4BH3P.jpg

Obviously your second pic is a quick and dirty mockup, but yeah, it's a much better direction and Spidey himself definitely looks quite a bit better. Which reminds me--I still love the suit from those movies. The Garfield one is certainly cool (also from terrible movies), but something about the Maguire suit just feels right.

Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Also, yes it's certainly not Pope's fault. He's undoubtedly a badass.

Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

So how about that colour grading in Harry Potter 6...  tongue

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

sad_tennant

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Squiggly_P wrote:

I took a shot at it quickly, though for some reason I didn't just pull your original. I don't know why.
I also know nothing about color correction. Oh, and I'm color blind.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v611/Squiggly_P/Spideyshot_002_zpsuxcnraji.jpg

Mainly done to see if I could do it without blowing out the reds. Fail.
Also, the contrast is too high in your edit (personal preference).

Mine looks like crap, tho.


I like it, to my eyes though the backgrounds shift to magenta a bit in your edit. If we assume this is a fairly cloudless day I'd probably keep it sliiightly bluer than neutral, rather than pushing towards magenta.

I increased the contrast a bit to better sell the feeling of a daylit scene, where the original shot looks quite flat and overcast. MJ also to me in the still looks like she's squinting a bit as if bright clouds only faintly hide the sun above.

I do postprocessing of my own cinefilm-negatives so I've gotten fairly used to doing color work, whether that shows or not is up for debate though. wink

Also I'm red-green deficient, though I think it's fairly mild and I can still see the colors easily, though I think they are less saturated or separated than for other people so color test charts with small dots next to one another don't separate well.

Last edited by TechNoir (2016-06-26 20:50:19)

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Re: Independence Day: Resurgence looks exceptionally... teal.

Ron Howard's In the Heart of the Sea must be the teal-est movie I've ever seen. Set not on Earth but the planet Greeny McGreenface. So much so, it must be more than an aesthetic choice. I suspect they're doing it to cover up green-screen bleed.

not long to go now...

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