Re: Raiders.

Same with people who don't know classical music and John Williams. Or, well, virtually any musician.

That said, I love me some Williams.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Raiders.

All the great classical composers rip-off John Williams.  Wait...

I listened to Howard Hanson's 2nd Symphony the other night and thought, Well that's where E.T. came from.  Especially the 3rd movement.

That being said, I love me some John Williams too.  On topic, the Desert Chase track from Raiders is one of my absolute favorites.  Especially while driving.

Last edited by dbngaa (2012-01-11 21:39:18)

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Re: Raiders.

Johnny Williams loves him some sixth intervals, I tell you what. There's also some Tchaikovsky that sounds eerily like John Williams music. or, you know, the other way around.

Whatevs.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Raiders.

Are you saying John Williams is Surrogates?

I WILL NOT HAVE THAT!

"Life is about movies; anything else is a bonus!"- Me   cool

55

Re: Raiders.

No, James Horner is definitely your Surrogates.

There was an excellent podcast by Film Score Monthly, called Opportunity Makes a Thief, where they laid out a ton of examples of Prokofiev, Rachmaninov, Britten and others showing up wholesale in the scores for Star Treks II & III; however, where the podcast was hosted seems to have re-organized and lost it.

I have a copy if someone wants to hear it, and it's definitely worth listening to if you are interested in the short-cuts some composers take.

Re: Raiders.

fcw wrote:

No, James Horner is definitely your Surrogates.

This is true. Horner even rips himself off on a regular basis  big_smile

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Re: Raiders.

My favorite is the Klingon attack fanfare (that's what I'm calling it anyway - French horns & brake drum) from Trek III showing up in Aliens when they are escaping the first encounter/fight with the aliens. It's been a while since I saw Trek III so it may not be quite copy & paste, just similar.

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Re: Raiders.

From the creator of Star Wars Begins, Back to Empire, and Returning to Jedi...

Raiding the Lost Ark

Re: Raiders.

http://blastr.com/assets_c/2012/06/ImageRaiders061412-thumb-550x538-93813.jpg

Re: Raiders.

This just in from 2112... "I loves me some Clarb Fnarbles, but his film scores sound a whole lot like the Beatles, James Taylor, and the Eagles."

That'll be weird.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Raiders.

One of my fave Futurama jokes evar was a little throwaway gag where Leela finds Fry listening to gangsta rap and says "You can sit here listening to classical music all you want, but..."

Re: Raiders.

Just listened to this for the first time - in preparation for the upcoming IMAX re-release next month.

Great commentary guys - lots of fun.

And just like that...

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Re: Raiders.

Last time I re-watched Raiders I remember being a little uncomfortable with its presentations of race and culture. I mean, I know, but still, I felt it had a gentle racism that I guess was inevitable given the period in which it was made. I'm not sure what to do with that - I mean clearly it's sort of a museum piece, but introducing it to people who have not seen it requires a lot of explaining.
Any thoughts?

Last edited by TheGreg (2012-08-31 10:35:13)

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Re: Raiders.

I don't think it has racism because of when it was made but because of when it was set.

And the second film is waaaaaaay more racist big_smile

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Re: Raiders.

Nazis and racism? No way smile

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Re: Raiders.

TheGreg wrote:

but introducing it to people who have not seen it requires a lot of explaining.
Any thoughts?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-h6RUES4WhwE/TrrJJ2JehGI/AAAAAAAAABQ/RV1QPQMKqvE/NotSureIfSerious.png

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Raiders.

I'm not really sure it's about when it's set - I mean, it would be possible to make a film set in the 30s without that. What bothers me about it is that all of the non-white characters are either punchlines to a joke or painful stereotypes. Yes, Temple is worse. But everyone, from the comical Nepalese, the naive Indians, the comically jovial or bungling Arabs etc etc are shamefully shallow. The Germans are, of course, all scheming villains, but I can forgive that.

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Re: Raiders.

Do you have that problem with Star Wars?

Oh, so it's only real cultures that deserve respect and depth! I see. Hmph.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Raiders.

TheGreg wrote:

I'm not really sure it's about when it's set - I mean, it would be possible to make a film set in the 30s without that. What bothers me about it is that all of the non-white characters are either punchlines to a joke or painful stereotypes. Yes, Temple is worse. But everyone, from the comical Nepalese, the naive Indians, the comically jovial or bungling Arabs etc etc are shamefully shallow. The Germans are, of course, all scheming villains, but I can forgive that.


Is it possible for a film set in the 30s not to have racial stereotypes in it? Especially one based on the old serials and pulp novels of that time? Actually can you name a film either from the 30s or set in the 30s that doesn't have a racial stereotype of some sort? Genuinely curious.

Like I mentioned, I'm not saying 80s films didn't have racial sterotypes and some dodgy material but I think the setting in Raiders for example it kind of makes more sense. I cringe at some racism and homophobia in 80s films (Soul Man step on up, you too Sixteen Candles) but it doesn't bother me in Raiders because of the period setting.

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Re: Raiders.

It may be more disappointment on his part. After all, the difference between a story set in a time period and a movie MADE back then is you can look back and have some fun with it. Either go all Blazing Saddles, or play up the racism to get the point across. I'd love, for example, to see a Buck Rodgers show that had the original evil Mongol Chinese going after white women. The original League of Extraordinary Gentlemen went that way, with the horrible movie changing the bad guy into iirc some German.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Raiders.

Jimmy B wrote:

Is it possible for a film set in the 30s not to have racial stereotypes in it? ... Actually can you name a film either from the 30s or set in the 30s that doesn't have a racial stereotype of some sort? Genuinely curious.

Erm, I think so - Road to Perdition, O Brother Where Art Thou?, They Shoot Horse, Don't They?, The Color Purple spring to mind.

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Re: Raiders.

Teague wrote:

Do you have that problem with Star Wars?

Oh, so it's only real cultures that deserve respect and depth! I see. Hmph.

Actually I kind of do... The whole 'this is a desert planet', 'this planet is high tech' etc recalls the worst of the Star Trek 'planet of the week' episodes where a race or culture stands in for some political point the show wants to make. In the Star Wars movies there are usually so few of any given non-human race that it's impossible to see a diversity in their cultures, and so it's hard to see them as fully rounded representations.

We are shown what tuscan raiders, jawas, wookies, etc 'are like' in the early minutes of Star Wars, and learn little more about them than that. It's a disgrace. ;)

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Re: Raiders.

Invid wrote:

It may be more disappointment on his part. After all, the difference between a story set in a time period and a movie MADE back then is you can look back and have some fun with it. Either go all Blazing Saddles, or play up the racism to get the point across. I'd love, for example, to see a Buck Rodgers show that had the original evil Mongol Chinese going after white women. The original League of Extraordinary Gentlemen went that way, with the horrible movie changing the bad guy into iirc some German.

Yes - I mean, I get that on one level Raiders is lampooning or homaging pulp comics and cheap tv shows of the era, and that's fine, it's just that I think that if that's what you're doing you've got to be a little careful that you really are doing it ironically, not just doing it.

I feel like if you're going to do that (LOEG with Yellow Peril) then you really have to make sure that you hang a lantern on it or subvert it in some way. Simply wallowing in nostalgia of a period when racism was more acceptable seems a little, well, I don't know, inappropriate.

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Re: Raiders.

Captain Katanga was a black guy, and he was one of the smartest people in Raiders. And there's nothing wrong with the depiction of the Arabs. I think you're way over-thinking the subject.

Excessive concern about the depiction of race and gender in movies will only lead to every villain being played by a white Englishman.

Last edited by Zarban (2012-09-01 19:45:28)

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Raiders.

With a good bulk of the movie taking place in Egypt, you're gonna have a bunch of Egyptian bad guys. Indy with a horde of Egyptian henchmen would be a bit silly now, wouldn't it?

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