Topic: PotC On Stranger Tides

So I'm halfway through watching "Hunt for Red October" for the first time when the phone rings at twenty to midnight and its the girlfriend saying if I leave immediately she can hold off the projectionist putting on a staff showing of Pirates 4.

My expectations were quite low after... well the last couple of attempts at sequels and Brit film mag Empire giving it only 2 stars.

However I have to say whilst not nearly as good as the first it still managed to be bloody enjoyable, after a slow start a brillaint sequence with mermaids really works and from there its a proper adventure romp.

in a way it felt cheaper then the other entires with what felt like less settings and smaller battles but the more linear narrative makes up for it.

It's nothing amazing but it does what it sets out to do.

What did yo guys think?

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

You bastard.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Saw the trailer before Thor and noticed that there's no Will and Elizabeth, which seemed like a sensible choice. I'm looking forward to it in a modest way.

After following along with the DIF Pirates 1 and 2 recording, I watched Pirates 3, and my view softened on all of them. What generated confusion and exhaustion the first time around in 2 and 3 weren't so overwhelming.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Well considering it's not even out yet, I can't really say ho i feel about it. But i am really excited, especially since i don't hate the sequels nearly as much as others do.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Yeaaaaahhhh.

I'm gonna wait for Netflix.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

I like the character of Jack enough to see this in the theaters, but if the story is as muddled and confusing as At World's End, I might actually demand my money back.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Doc, It's probably the most straight forward plot they've ever done.

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

I'm skeptical, but I love all 3 of the films equally, so I will be checking it out in a week or so.

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

I liked all three of the films as well. I can understand why people hate the third one, but I personally love when they can put some kind of weird visual stuff into a film. The first flick is straight up fantasy adventure, but the second and third - especially the third - feel more like fairy tales to me, and I kinda dig that sort of story. I can get why a lot of people aren't going to let you get away with something like sailing over the edge of the earth or coming back from the land of the dead by flipping your boat over, but every once in a while it's cool to see a movie where crazy stuff like that happens and it's done with that much technical skill.

The trailer for the third one looks good to me, though I've seen a clip of one scene and it felt kinda cheesy. I'll still go see it, tho.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Dead Man's Chest and At Worlds' End are both better than the first film.

Yeah, I said it.  Davey Jones is the coolest shit imaginable, Jack's death and Barbossa showing up at the end of DMC are both awesome moments.  And if you don't like At World's End, you are watching a pirate movie for the wrong reasons.  It ends with a giant pirate war around and inside a whirlpool, and that film has both Barbossa AND Davey Jones, which means it has very little room for suck.  Every character's arc is wrapped up perfectly, and all the relationships find closure- Davey Jones and Calypso, Will and his Father, Will and Elizabeth (sea battle sword fighting marriage, come the fuck on), Jack and Will, Jack and Elizabeth, Norrington and Elizabeth...

I understand the words people use to say those two movies fell short of the original, but I was on board for every single second of that series.  This one... well, Blackbeard showing up is going to have to work to win me over, as much as I loved the guy as a kid.

When.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Hear, hear.

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Now the downside to working in a cinema - standing up for 8 straight hours with PotC in 5 screens. Eck =/

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Kyle wrote:

Dead Man's Chest and At Worlds' End are both better than the first film.

Yeah, I said it.  Davey Jones is the coolest shit imaginable, Jack's death and Barbossa showing up at the end of DMC are both awesome moments.  And if you don't like At World's End, you are watching a pirate movie for the wrong reasons.  It ends with a giant pirate war around and inside a whirlpool, and that film has both Barbossa AND Davey Jones, which means it has very little room for suck.  Every character's arc is wrapped up perfectly, and all the relationships find closure- Davey Jones and Calypso, Will and his Father, Will and Elizabeth (sea battle sword fighting marriage, come the fuck on), Jack and Will, Jack and Elizabeth, Norrington and Elizabeth...

I understand the words people use to say those two movies fell short of the original, but I was on board for every single second of that series.  This one... well, Blackbeard showing up is going to have to work to win me over, as much as I loved the guy as a kid.

Okay, all of that stuff is cool, but none of it makes a lick of sense. I could at least follow Dead Man's Chest, but At World's End didn't make any sense whatsoever. No matter how many times I watch it, I still don't understand it.

Basically, Pirate Whirlpool Battle is cool, but the movie that surrounds it is the problem.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Squiggly_P wrote:

I can get why a lot of people aren't going to let you get away with something like sailing over the edge of the earth or coming back from the land of the dead by flipping your boat over, but every once in a while it's cool to see a movie where crazy stuff like that happens and it's done with that much technical skill.

I think you're misunderstanding the objection. I, for one, have no problem with implementing pirate/seafaring lore in a rollicking high fantasy adventure. The first movie established a world where supernatural seaman's legends are all true, so all of that is perfectly allowable. Hell, if you're going to tell a story with that setup, you'd BETTER sail off the edge of the earth at some point or I'm gonna ask for my money back. The problem is that the story around those cool crazy happenings is incoherent, which is not what I signed up for, especially when the first movie was so tightly written.

Kyle wrote:

Every character's arc is wrapped up perfectly

Every character's existing arc is abandoned and replaced by a new one, laden with retcons, and wrapped up halfheartedly amid the whirlpool fighting.

More power to you if you can enjoy it, but the first one is brilliant and the sequels are a mess that flail wildly from one half-baked storyline to the next. They're only "better" if you use that word to mean "more spectacular and expensive." Which, to be fair, a lot of people do.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

I dunno. I don't get the objection. Incoherent isn't the word I would use. Maybe "too busy", in that there are like 4 or 5 plot threads going on in the third flick, but by the end they've all pretty well converged into the one sequence. They pull a few things out of their ass, to be sure, but aside from maybe a bit of lazy writing I didn't find the flicks to be at all hard to follow along with or understand what was going on.

But yeah, I have to agree with Kyle that the sequels were good, or at least satisfactory to my viewing needs. I think the first was the best, the second one was right up there (had some awkward humor bits which I generally don't like in any movie beyond Woody Allen flicks and their ilk), and the third one was slightly worse due to the kinda weak "pirate king" section with Fat. They're all still very watchable, entertaining, etc.

But lets put them into perspective, now... Compared to a movie that has actually been crafted in an effort to be a 'good' movie, and not just an entertaining movie, ALL of the POTC movies are kinda crap. They're all really good for big stupid action/adventure movies, but it's not like the creators went out of their way to inject tons of subtlety, nuance or emotionally or intellectually complex subject matter into them. Curse, boat, kidnap, swordfights, save the damsel in distress, beat the bag guy, the end.

Last edited by Squiggly_P (2011-05-20 05:57:44)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Squiggly_P wrote:

But lets put them into perspective, now... Compared to a movie that has actually been crafted in an effort to be a 'good' movie, and not just an entertaining movie, ALL of the POTC movies are kinda crap. They're all really good for big stupid action/adventure movies, but it's not like the creators went out of their way to inject tons of subtlety, nuance or emotionally or intellectually complex subject matter into them. Curse, boat, kidnap, swordfights, save the damsel in distress, beat the bag guy, the end.

I have to wonder when the last time was that you actually watched the films. YMMV whether you find them all to be fun and watchable, but to make a broad statement that none of them are well-crafted, 'good' movies is just plain incorrect.

The first film IS an intentionally crafted 'good' movie by any objective measure. There's plenty of subtlety, subversion of tropes alongside celebration of tropes, setup/payoff, etc. Pick your screenwriting theory of choice -- McKee, Campbell, Vogler, Snyder -- CURSE OF THE BLACK PEARL nails every beat. There is no "pulling things out of their ass" to be found (beyond the extent inherently involved in creating any work of fiction, of course) and nary an extraneous plot thread. It may be pulpy popcorn fare, but it's built on a rock-solid foundation.

The sequels, on the other hand, are indeed blithering messes of big stupid action/adventure, grasping desperately at tropes and hoping that with enough action and VFX we'll be convinced it's a plot. And if you think that's fine, then hey, the sequels are, by definition, fine. But to lump the original into the same category as the sequels in terms of how capably and carefully they're written is not only factually untrue, but the difference is exactly the source of my (and others') objection to the sequels compared to the first.

Watch them again back to back. Whether or not you find yourself able to enjoy them all equally -- purely subjective -- if you really can't tell any objective difference between the quality and economy of storytelling in BLACK PEARL vs. the sequels, I'll be shocked.

Not to belabor the point, but I want to be clear that I am talking about the writing/storytelling, not the technical aspects of the filmmaking. Certainly the sequels are superior to the original in scope and scale, absolutely the action and effects are cranked to 11 and a damn fine job of it. But that's not how a movie wins me over.

All that said, I had tentative hopes for STRANGER TIDES. It was based on a book, so the story was already sorted out, and they had time to write and develop it rather than being in the middle of a production rush like the sequels, particularly AWE, suffered from. Will & Elizabeth were out so the story didn't have to be contorted to include them, the budget was reduced so they wouldn't be able to get too slaphappy about the FX, and CHICAGO is one of my favorite movies so Rob Marshall directing seemed promising. Thought it might well be a return to form. But it seems it was not to be.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Just saw it. DON'T BOTHER!!!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Almost went to the midnight screening tonight.  I get a student discount at AMC on Thursdays, and the range I've been getting some trigger time in on is just down the street, so Thursdays have become my "going into town" days.  Stopped by to see what they were offering this week and, no shit, I think they were showing it on every screen at midnight.  Figure I'll give it a week and catch it next Thursday unless the reviews are utter shite, otherwise, Netflix.

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Dorkman wrote:

The first film IS an intentionally crafted 'good' movie by any objective measure. There's plenty of subtlety, subversion of tropes alongside celebration of tropes, setup/payoff, etc. Pick your screenwriting theory of choice -- McKee, Campbell, Vogler, Snyder -- CURSE OF THE BLACK PEARL nails every beat.

I think what Squiggly_P is saying is that Pirates 1 didn't set out to be profound or meaningful, which is to say a GREAT movie. I've said before that Pirates 1 contains no themes, motifs, or symbolism, and the character arcs are rather weak, but it does swashbuckling adventure right, and that certainly makes it a GOOD movie.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

I went in having read terrible reviews and having recently tried to explain the motivations in DMC on the internet.

Disclamed.

But I liked it. It was different, it felt different, but I liked it. I don't think it stands up to much scrutiny, but it's now my second favorite in the series.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Eh, I didn't care for it very much, I found it to be tedious and even borderline boring. The charm for Sparrow felt tired and despite what should've been great casting, Ian McShane was kind of forgettable. There were a couple funny scenes otherwise it's just a mundane film which is a shame since the production and costume designs, as they were in the first three, were top notch.

Last edited by JPV555 (2011-05-24 15:36:00)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

I'm gonna write up a full review with spoilers as to why I really didn't like it. In short, it was clustered, full of characters I didn't care about, and felt more like a "Hey kids, it's Jack Sparrow!" thing than a PotC-film. In fact, had they called it "Jack Sparrow and the Fountain of Youth", I think I'd be much more OK with it.

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Fuck it, the film isn't worth a full review.
Basically; Jack is used too much, Gibbs is just tagging along, Blackbeard is weird, and a poor substitute for Davey Jones, Barbossa rather pointless, Angelica is boring and annoying.. Gah. Don't even get me started on the priest and the mermaid, which the film wanted us to care about, but failing to do so in every aspect.

In comparison to Indiana Jones, this is 'Temple of Doom'. It's one plot all the way thru, with very little switching between threads. Possibly done to try and go a different direction that AWE, but done in a way that you get tired, bored, and ultimately sleepy. I know I did.

Jack is still fun, at times, but mostly, it's just a toned down version of him. Barbossa really doesn't make any sense at all, and it seems like Rush didn't even try to portray him even close to what he's supposed to be. Blackbeard was an interesting character to begin with, but I soon realized I didn't care what happened to him either. Angelica was off to a cool start as well, but I wound up hating her fairly quickly.

The mermaid made sense in a no-sense-at-all kind of way, and the love plot between her and the priest was poorly written, poorly executed, and downright boring.

Basically, none of the characters had interesting arcs, the sets are way smaller and the plotline in general left much to be desired. If you're a fan of the first three like me, seriously don't bother watching it. At least unless you're absolutely sure you want a story that doesn't need telling, with laid-back versions of otherwise great characters.


**SEMI-SPOILERS**
Honestly, the only parts I can remember actually laughing loudly to, was Jack the monkey, and Sparrow's moment with Angelica in the end.

And why the fuck did Teague Sparrow just disappear with no reason?

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

I killed him.

http://images.wikia.com/indianajones/images/c/c7/SimonKatanga2.jpg

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: PotC On Stranger Tides

Well, he was of no use to us.

Congrats on making the world's most obscure Raiders reference, Teague.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down