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This movie is almost exactly one year old. Crazy.
Thanks to Pavlich for the image I stole for the home page. Nobody listen to Sofa Dogs.
If by "stole" you mean "was practically force-fed", then yeah. And you're welcome. 
Nice bit of reverse psychology there. Nobody leave me an iTunes review, either! Boy, how I hate those.
So, back when you recorded this (one of the few times I was unable to join the live chat), I decided to watch Tron Legacy for the first time. It was streaming on Netflix, through Starz, so I knew the opportunity to essentially watch it for free wouldn't last.
After watching it, I decided that was....fine. Alright. Nothing special. Had its moments. It was at least better than the first one, in that I didn't fall asleep or look at my watch or wish I was doing anything else. However, I've come to realize that both films share a lot of the same problems, in terms of structure, pacing, narrative through-lines and character motivations. What's more, is they share these issues almost verbatim. It's like building a fancy new modern home over the old one, using the same blueprints and doing it right over the original foundation, but being completely unaware that the whole reason you needed to try again in the first place was because the foundation and blueprints were problematic.
One example of this is the Solar Sailor. In both instances, it shows up at about the same time, moves like a snail precisely when time is critical and manages to bring the movie to almost a complete stop. It's weird. For years, I tried to figure out why in the first film, between the few exciting and memorable set pieces, the rest of it seemed so dull, uneventful and forgettable? A friend of mine cracked it for me about a year ago: Though the first film has a score, it's kind of stuffy, old-school and there are big stretches of the film where they just don't use it. It's too quiet and stale.
The sequel at least gets that right this time. Daft Punk's score, at least to me, is ultimately the best thing about this film. For being mostly electronic, it feels so alive, passionate and energetic. I for one will argue that yes, it deserved an Academy Award nomination. Maybe not a win, but at least a nomination.
My other favorite thing about the movie? Olivia Wilde. She played such an interesting character, and looked like she was having fun doing it, which was infectious, I felt.
+1
I love posts like this. I sir have liked your post, because I like that we talk about movies like this.
The Real World: Tron
This is the true story (true story) of one user picked to live in a grid and have his life taped to find out what happens when Clu stops being polite and the user starts getting real.
For serious, I thought Tron was just okay, but reallyu like Legacy, but don't disagree with the criticisms on the commentary. It's a weird one, I guess.
I guess Olivia Wilde (goddamn those eyes) cast a spell on many of us.
Last edited by Mr. Pointy (2011-12-12 11:49:31)
One can easily like a flawed or "bad" movie. I'm not talking about a "so bad, it's good" movie, but more of a "it's full of problems and isn't very good, but it's entertaining/charming/enjoyable" movie. Tron Legacy fits nicely in that category. Another example of this for me would be Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World. The script is a mess. The characters are all vapid, shallow, unlikable caricatures (except for Wallace. He rules all.). Much of the narrative is flippant, arbitrary and almost nothing gets paid off in an organic, fully satisfactory way. However, the movie is also energetic, inventive and damn funny, thanks largely to Edgar Wright. It's not a good movie, but it's fun, so I like it for that.
EDITED TO ADD: Oh! Something I forgot to mention: Tron Legacy suffers the same problem as Once Upon A Time In Mexico. In that film (the third and final installment in Robert Rodriguez's "Mariachi Trilogy"), the "main" character is hardly in the film, it's not even really about him at all and instead, we follow other people the storyteller is obviously way more interested in, namely, Johnny Depp and Reuben Blades. We even get flashbacks to what should have been the actual third film, but we're forced to meander through this one, even though it's not been properly established beforehand because we skipped all that. Tron Legacy does the exact same thing. 
Last edited by johnpavlich (2011-12-12 12:50:54)
In IMAX, Tron Legacy was so loud that the seats literally shook.
I think I'd be okay with this movie if it had been, you know, entertaining. The plot could have been just as dumb, but if we got five more awesome fight scenes, I would have loved this movie. I would have acknowledged how terrible it was, but at least I wouldn't have felt like I wasted my time. Tron Legacy makes the mistake, for me, of being unbearably boring, and that's the worst crime it commits.
Not only was this movie a visual / aural feast, but the 3D was really well done as well. I think the 3D actually helped the light cycle / light jet sequences feel better by better defining the scale and spacial relationships.
Major issues I have with the movie:
1) Did Flynn know that he'd be unable to un-create CLU without killing himself, and if so why in the holy fuck did he create CLU? The whole "no he can't do that or he'll destroy himself" thing is really really contrived and stupid and doesn't work at all.
2) Flynn is god. He creates stuff by touching a wall. He created CLU. Why is it just the three of them going to the portal and not, say, the three of them and their army of dudes that Flynn pulled out of his ass and the cyber tank battalion he created. I can understand why you wouldn't want that sort of logic interfering with your plot, but you need to rewrite and get Kevin Flynn out of the picture if you're going to just ignore his powers anyway. The guy who controls the system is god. Perhaps Kevin loses control? Maybe Cillian Murphy's character takes over the system and as such becomes the all-power god of the system?
Or maybe the users should all have a limited set of 'powers' that allows them to influence certain things and break certain rules but not totally alter shit? In that case, tho, you're looking more at The Matrix than Tron, I think. They don't really clearly establish the rules for the users. In the first film, Kevin could do things that would have killed the programs, and you don't ever really see him get hurt too badly. Was he impervious? The MCP didn't seem to think he was. He could also get the downed rectifier to work. He wasn't pulling new programs out of his ass or anything, tho. He wasn't reshaping the world. He was just more powerful and less damageable. In this movie he's a god, and that's kinda weird. When he created CLU, he wasn't writing code, he was telling the system to create a clone of his program and give it a specific function. But if that's the case, why couldn't CLU do all the things he could do. And why even bother making it a clone of yourself if you weren't going to allow it to do the shit you could do?
GRAAAAAHHH!!!! It's so frustrating to think about...
3) if you're trying to create some kind of utopia, why would you create rectifiers and tanks and weapons and the game grid in the first place? Programs die in the game grid, for fuck's sake! Is Flynn an evil bastard or what? And since when is the 'perfect system' a system where you slowly eat away at the limited population by murdering them all in a gladiatorial arena? CLU couldn't make new programs, right? So he was killing his potential army dudes and subjects, right?
I think the movie spends too much time jerking off over the first movie instead of having it's own ideas and such. Granted, you need conflict, and I think the suggestion that a virus or Cillian Murphy's character going in and corrupting the world would be a worthy excuse to put some of that stuff in there, but I get a sense that this isn't necessarily a sequel to Tron, but a really expensive fan film that got theatrical release.
4) Why the hell would you bleed in a virtual space? In the first film, it would seem that Flynn has been converted into data/a program and simply has some extra abilities as part of his complexity or something. This movie makes it seem as though you're just a regular person that's been transported into a computer or something. It doesn't make sense. They shouldn't bleed. It undermines the whole "this is gonna change everything" speech, because it literally changes nothing, and I think it undermines one of the main things they were trying to go for in the film.
Flynn talks about how the Grid could change medicine, religion, philosophy, etc, but they don't say why. However, imagine being able to take a paraplegic into the grid and then 'debugging' them the way they debug Quorra. Then you pop back into the real world perfectly healed. The ramifications of something like that would be huge, and I think that's what the movie was trying to go after. If that was what the movie was trying to go after, then they should have just come out and said it, or said it more clearly than they did. Making the users fundamentally different in that virtual world, tho, breaks that idea quite a lot.
But even with those problems and the disappointment that the film didn't explore concepts like the internet and all the different technologies that have come since the early 80's, I still liked this movie for the same reasons that some of you guys liked it. It's just nice to sit back and chill out to some awesome music and visuals and some really great cheesiness. The first film was equally cheesy and pretty to look at (even today it's still got some moments that look awesome), but this one has the advantage of not being boring as hell for 50% of it or so. The first film is sloooooooooooow.
One final thing: I never felt like Quorra and Sam had a romantic thing going. I felt like they had more of a sibling thing going on that only started to veer toward a romantic thing right at the end of the film, but only slightly. For some reason, that really endeared me to the characters a bit. I probably would have liked the movie less if they had gone after a more romantic relationship with those two.
And, yes, the last shot in the movie is really good. Olivia Wilde is adorable.
Squiggly_P,
I think you raise some good points, but I see some answers for your questions.
1. Clu being unmade by Flynn. I do not think Flynn was willing to take the risk of potentially being undone by the process. I operated under the assumption that to unmake Clu was to reintegrate Clu with Flynn and destroy them both. Whether or not that happened in the movie is unclear, but that was the assumption that Flynn worked with, making his unwillingness to act against Clu a little more understandable.
2. Flynn as a god in the Grid-I think it was Eddie who rightly pointed out that Flynn was a reluctant god. He did not go around making things and unmaking things because he did not want to abuse his power and cause another genocide like what happened to the isos. I think Flynn was afraid of his power, afraid of his creation and afraid of losing control.
Flynn said he created Clu to basically run things while he was in the real world. Flynn wanted to create the perfect system and empowered Clu with that directive. Simiarlly to WALL-E, CLu followed that diretive to its insanest point-that of completely dominating the system, which was the antithesis of Flynn's dream.
3. Weapons in the Grid-maybe the reasons they used their identity discs as weapons is because those were the first weapons programs used against other programs. All the weapons that were in the Grid were already there from the MCP program. Clu may not be able to make other programs, but he can reprogram them for his own purposes. Even when Tron was derezzed, Clu was able to take his programming and shaped it back in to Rinzler. So, even if programs are derezzed in the games, Clu could take the pieces and rebuild them in to his army. I think the point of capturing programs and deciding to "rectify" them means that those programs are already loyal to Clu.
I agree there are several plot holes, but overall I was satisfied with the movie. I think it did a better job than the original in terms of creating a dynamic story world, and having enough conflict to keep me interested.
One point that I will disagree with the panelists about Tron's sudden conversion back to being for the users. I think that the point was that Tron had not seen Flynn in many cycles, that Clu had reprogrammed him and was in control of him. When he finally saw Flynn, actually saw Flynn in person, it jump started his memory, like a flash back reminding him of who he used to be. I think his change may have been a bit timely in terms of pacing for the story, but it made sense to me.
I'm watching this now... I last week I sat and rewatched Wild Wild West (even with commercials) and asked myself why wasn't this great? The ideas and visuals where there, but it missed. Same with this. It's beautiful (i found myself standing close to my tv just staring at the BluRay version) but... There is a great movie here I agree, but for some reason i'm not watching it.
We have a great episode about WWW exploring EXACTLY that. Also, a lot of fun, because everyone keeps making fun of me for having liked it at all.
I must subconsciously like WWW because I sat though it on TNT or AMC with a commercial every 10 minutes, so I would be on your side Teague...
This TRON: Legacy DiF episode was the first I listened to, and I really enjoyed it - great job. You jump-started my imagination about what it could have been. I also like having perspectives from the FX eyes.. some things I don't notice and appreciate (like the lighting when they are "Deadly - Disc-ing" upside down). It enhanced my second viewing immensely.
I've been wanting to sit and watch the original Star Wars Trilogy again for the umpteenth time and I think I'll download your commentary for it.
I'm not quite ready to sit through "Crystal Skull" just yet. 
I vastly prefer our commentaries for the originals to the prequels. I think this is the opposite of most people. But you know, the prequels are a lot of pain veiled by joking, and the originals are just us discussing the stuff even nerds might not know about them and discussing their awesomeness.
And thanks, wrt TRON.
Then John, please don't do anymore Couch Surfing episodes. If you do anything, please don't do anymore of those.
Teague - I work in downtown San Francisco and decided to put the Tron Legacy soundtrack on as I walked to my office. I worked 1.5 miles from where my bus drops me off, so i was able to get pretty locked in.
Holy cow is that an amazing soundtrack to wander through the city. Timing was perfect, lights where changing in sync with music, cable cars bells adding perfects accents. Man, what a fun way to start the day...I'm glad you recommended it on the commentary.
I get dropped off at the Transbay Terminal (or Embarcadero Bart stop), but my office is right below Coit Tower...basically right by Pier 39 and all the tourists. it's a bit of a hike.
But a great part of town. I actually like the Mission in early morning before everyone wakes up.
Then John, please don't do anymore Couch Surfing episodes. If you do anything, please don't do anymore of those.
This seemed random and I'm not sure I get it, but I thought I'd take a moment to clarify/reveal that Couch Surfing is not dead, just on a long, long hiatus. It is coming back, eventually.
With regards to the Tron: Legacy score, I recently made a mix for a friend that specifically catered to his regular routine of driving to and from places at night. This night driving mix contained tracks from lots of 80s'-style synth music, mostly instrumental. 3 of those tracks were from Daft Punk's score: "Solar Sailer", "The Son of Flynn" and "End Titles." I'm told he listens to it quite a lot.
End Titles is so good. So so good.
I wonder if there are dubstep remixes of these tracks.
EDIT: oh god so many.
I've never really seen the appeal of dubstep apart from when it comes to Youtube parodies & remixes.
Some of it is really good. Like most things, 95% of it is really really bad.
(sorry John, was doing the reverse pyschology/brair patch thing)
Just saw TRON: Legacy. I thought it was a fun, visually stunning movie. But it wasn't a TRON movie... more of a spin-off. TRON wasn't even a character in the film. You could cut TRON out of the movie altogether and the story would be affected. He's only in the movie for the franchise title. So that disappointed me.
Clu was ok, but alittle wonky at times.
Just saw TRON: Legacy. I thought it was a fun, visually stunning movie. But it wasn't a TRON movie... more of a spin-off. TRON wasn't even a character in the film. You could cut TRON out of the movie altogether and the story would be affected. He's only in the movie for the franchise title. So that disappointed me.
Clu was ok, but alittle wonky at times.
I wonder if the movie would have been better off titled "The Grid" or something similar to that. I mean, Tron was technically the main character in the original either, just a supporting character. Part of the drive for me in the movie was wondering when Tron would arrive on the scene.
However, your point is a good one in that Tron is rarely seen in the movie, though I personally liked the implications that CLU was able to rebuild Tron to his purpose. It takes the idea of CLU building the perfect system to its absolute extreme of the very pieces of programs already part of the system and reconstructing them.
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