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So, I've seen Ark and Just finished Episode 3 of Video Game High School. I was wondering what everyone here thinks of the Web Series that are out there. I've seen some of the Fall Out 3 Nuka Break series. That one was sorta fun. VGHS seems to have cool visuals, but no strong story yet.
Discuss your favorite web series and what does and doesn't work in them.
I hate VGHS, and wish FreddieW and his friends would use their considerable talent and money to make a REAL movie instead of more internet/video-game fan-wank.
I can't think of the last webseries I've enjoyed.
I like some ongoing vlog projects, but as far as webseries go... um.
I enjoy The Guild although I kinda stopped watching halfway through season 4 or somewhere around there. Not because it got bad or anything, I just never really had any strong desire to keep watching. (I'm neither an MMO-er or anything even close) Though I'll probably get around to watching the rest eventually.
I haven't seen any of VGHS but I've seen enough of his youtube stuff to know what he does, and while technically pretty decent, I just don't care.
I hate VGHS, and wish FreddieW and his friends would use their considerable talent and money to make a REAL movie instead of more internet/video-game fan-wank.
They get millions of views because of the video-game-fan-wank not because of their talent.
The guys from Corridor Digital are a good example of that. Their last 'video game' video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwNVQvygCNQ) has almost 3 million views in 3 weeks while their original webseries Sync (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBftzMxDtIg) has little over 500k and it's been online over 2 months.
The majority of YT users want to see familiar shit that blows up and looks nice.
Last edited by Lamer (2012-06-01 23:27:07)
The majority of YT users want to see familiar shit that blows up and looks nice.
I knew there had to be a reason Transformers made all the money it did-...oh right, we're talking about webseries.
And I'm much like Sguiggy. I have yet to find a solid non comedy webseries that doesn't make me groan or want to throw a shoe at something at how bad it is. That is also longer than 3-10 minute episodes.
Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-06-01 23:22:22)
Blood and Bone China is rather well put together
While I don't like Red vs Blue or give a shit about its terrible convoluted story or mythology, Monty Oum has been doing some of the most impressive action choreography I've ever seen since he joined that series. Someone seriously needs to get that guy into a pre-viz department, or fund an animated film of his.
Look at 1:25 onward in this: http://roosterteeth.com/archive/?id=376 … re&s=9
And the trailer for season 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN1IwxXU748
Holy shit, how did I forget RvB?!
I, unlike bullet, love the ever living shit out of RvB. Of course it is still mostly comedy and it's own very bizarre form of dramedy and short episodes. But yeah, RvB is awesome.
Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-06-02 00:24:28)
Ya, it's more just not my cup of tea. I can see how it was funny when they started out, but it's kind of crazy that the series is still going and actually trying to justify storylines and mythologies and what-not, and that stuff doesn't work for me. I think I'd have loved this thing back in high-school (and I really remember the days of Halo machinama being a big deal in my friend circles), but I think I've outgrown it and looking back, it's pretty silly.
With the animation team they have now though, and the apparent free reign from Microsoft to do whatever, I wish they'd just do a spin-off series or something that's not connected to the old series. I think with a more serious bent and better writing they could do some outstanding stuff. It kinda reminds me of that Starship Troopers CG cartoon from the early 2000's.
I can understand that, and actually agree with most of it. But I still love it, and I can't really explain why. It's just stupid and silly and ridiculous fun that doesn't really care that it's stupid and silly and ridiculous and just embraces it.
But idk, I'm not sure THAT crew doing a "serious" series would work. I believe that the reason it works the way it does now is because the guys at roosterteeth are just laid back and silly and not very serious and that comes through in RvB. I think that if they tried to shoe horn themselves into doing something serious it would come off as forced and stilted. But then all the Project Freelancer stuff has been pretty awesome and more serious, so who knows.
http://www.youtube.com/user/LaDiDaSongVideos
Start at #1! There's an insane narrative, and would probably only take like 20 mins to watch all of them.
Oh, and.
YUUUUP.
Last edited by paulou (2012-06-02 01:06:44)
That Sync show is pretty decent looking, judging from the first episode. Neat idea. Unfortunately, it's got a lot of problems other web series have in terms of how it looks and the way it's shot, edited, written and performed. Not just talking about Sync here unless I specifically say that:
1) Ever notice how all the tutorials and information out there on color grading and general 'look' of video tend to focus on making everything look like a Micheal Bay movie? Why is that, exactly? It looks like crap. People on the internet should stop doing that. Sync isn't all that bad, but it's close in some sections.
2) Every shot is handheld. Every other shot is some kind of gimmick shot where the camera is panning up or down or snap-zooming or shot from above, or shot from the ground, or doing some sweeping move, etc. Further, most of these series don't have many interesting angles. They're mostly shot in a very basic way to either get as much of the action in camera as possible or with the focal point being dead-center frame the whole time. They're either being flat and boring or trying WAY too hard.
3) The editing is very basic. Cut to the guy saying the line. Cut to the beginning of the action and cut after the entire action has taken place. A leads to B leads to C. It's usually not BAD, but it's very simplistic and dull. Predictable.
4) The writing in Sync is interesting because the concept is interesting. I liked how they approached the first episode, so I can't fault the writing there. Normally the writing in web series is as predictable as the editing. The dialogue however... The dialogue is typical. Every line is trying to be the most clever or bad-ass line ever written. The characters in these series often end up being the same character, or one of a few different archetypes. They are generic, though that is also partly due to the acting...
5) The acting sucks. It's a web series, so maybe I should grade on a curve or something, but the acting in most of these things is pretty terrible, bordering on mediocre if you're lucky. Line delivery is an issue, but often the real issue I have is the way things are happening. I'm an actor standing here waiting for my turn to say my line. This guy has said his line, and I'm reacting to it. I need to move to this spot here and then say this line and then do this. When they're not speaking, they just sit there or stand there. I dunno if these guys have gone to film school or taken an acting class, but if you watch more than a few truly good movies, you kinda notice that most decent actors don't just sit there waiting for their turn to deliver a line. They do stuff. There's a back-and-forth between them and the director where they try different things.
Overall, I think the main problem with web shows is that they go way overboard in some aspects and then barely try at all when it comes to the actual story and performance. You can tell they're trying to go for a big-budget sort of 'feel' to things with all the crazy ass color grading and the effects and camera moves and the clever / bad-ass dialogue and shit, but they end up trying so hard that it's too much. Not to mention the fact that movies like that generally suck balls, so why the hell people keep trying to make that sort of crap without any money I'll never know.
I get that these are little low-budget hobby things a lot of the time, but you can make a really good scene that relies very little on effects or gimmicky shots or overly clever writing or crazy genre concepts or anything like that. If I had a camera that could shoot video and friends I would do them myself. Unfortunately I have none of those things.
Also, case-in-point of a series that actually has great effects, but is well written, shot and edited in an interesting way, has a neat concept and I, for one, think that the middle bit is pretty well acted. The dialogue is good, the characters are characters... It's got some rough edges and shit - the last bit could have been read a bit better - but fucking great overall:
This is something that's been bugging me a ton the last few years. I don't know if the shitty hollywood blockbusters are to blame, but I'm seeing incredibly talented people on youtube wasting all this hard work and crazy vfx on terrible writing, acting, and general fan-wankery. The advent of digital technology was supposed to enable anyone to be a film-maker, and it has made this much easier, but it seems to me that people are simply not embracing the opportunities at all. I've brought this up before, but you look at some of the early John Carpenter films, like Assault on Precinct 13. Those were made on a shoe-string budget back then, nowadays you could probably make the same exact film for under 10 grand if you were creative about it. So why are we not seeing more young film-makers making simple genre films in that type of mold? Obviously not all of them would be successful/good, but it seems to me that people aren't even making the attempt for the most part. I see the behind the scenes stuff in FreddieW's channel, and they have so much talent/equipment/stunt-people at their disposal, it staggers me that they don't apply that towards a simple narrative genre film, which would be not a huge leap from the work they do now.
Monsters is the only real recent example I can think of where someone really went for it and applied their hobby VFX skills to make a good breakout feature film. I kind of hoped we'd have a whole wave of that kind of thing, but it seems to not be happening.
So why are we not seeing more young film-makers making simple genre films in that type of mold?
I think it's probably 2 fold.
Firstly the type of people that have the capabilities to actually do that sort of thing, aren't the people who would (See FreddieW and the general visual effects based youtuber community), they are perfectly happy to make stupid little 3 min videos of fanwankery and other related things because it makes them youtube famous. They have their audience of thousands of people who do nothing but love everything they do and never have a bad thing to say about them. So why would they do something more?
And secondly, there's no market for that anymore, or more accurately there's no perceived market for those types of movies anymore. With Michael Bay BS fests and Battleships being the only thing coming out of hollywood for so long, an entire generation of amateur filmmakers have grown up thinking that's what you have to do to become popular. And everything they see that tries to do something else fails miserably.
Along with that I don't think amateur filmmakers have any good role models right now. We have FreddieW and Andrew Kramer out there basically, while not outright saying anything, being the examplke that if you do this and this and this you be famous and rich. So an entire generation does that and that and that and everything looks exactly the same. And sure, we have Monsters. Which is one film created on a shoestring budget (Name me another one in the last 5 years), but look at the response to it, it's praised as this feat impossible to match, this holy idol of filmmaking that only a filmmaking god or a madman would have attempted.
I know that's really really painting the entire issue with one brush, but I think a lot of the problems stem from those 2 things.
All right so here's the $10,000 question, and I think this was touched on a bit by the DIF crew during one of the first intermissions (I think I now how you will answer too), can one "graduate" from Youtube and really go for it and make a name in feature filmmaking. Or is that just a happy place pipe dream?
I see 0 reasons why someone can't, I just don't see anyone stepping up and attempting to do so. The guy who made Monsters is now doing the Godzilla reboot, Totally Rad Show guy's portal fan film largely got him a big studio gig, and the there's Paranormal Activity, which has turned Oren Peli into somewhat of a horror brand name. If the youtube generation isn't graduating, it's their own damn fault for not taking any chances, and I think BigDamnArtist is completely right about the reasons why.
They perceive the market for them. They just perceive that market to be a lot smaller than the one for Transformers. It wouldn't be so bad if they'd allow some movies to be made specifically for that smaller market, but they usually demand that all their movies have some level of mass market appeal to them, either via some hot star or by demanding changes to the script or to the movie that would allow them to market the movie that way.
What I meant is that from the youtube/indie filmmakers perspective, there isn't a market for the early carpenter, super low budget genre films anymore. Because all that they see on the market, and all people talk about are the big explodey movies. BECAUSE the small narrow focus movies aren't being made so they arn't being there to be talked about. I'm sure there's some fancy word for it but it's basically the assumption that people don't want something because no one talks about it, but no one talks about it because it's not being produced. So the indie filmmaker has nothing to base their work after.
And I mean sure we can say, well just look at carpenter or X director or movie from 30 years ago. But I mean a movie that is 10 years older than i am is going to hold very little practical advice on making those kinds of movies today. (AGAIN. this is not what I actually believe, this is just what I think is running through the heads of a lot of people trying to make indie films today)
As far as the youtube people getting off their asses and making movies, I think a lot of them still think they have to have a ton of money and have to do it through the studio. You kinda do if you want to get a wide theatrical release, but there's nothing stopping you from just making a DVD. You can self-publish though a number of websites. Hell, you can burn the discs yourself if you're desperate. There's literally nothing stopping people.
Again, I think this comes down to the fact that there are is practically nothing in way of role models for making good indie productions on shoestrings budgets in popular knowledge. You have to be willing to brute force bludgeon your way through that kind of stuff and that wall of failures is gonna stop a lot of people from even trying it. Or most people don't even realize the wall is there and just think the studio route is the ONLY way to do it. Which granted is mostly their fault for not doing the research to figure it out, but it's still a thing that exists.
The only thing stopping me is my lack of hardware and money and friends. Which is why I'm trying to make zero-budget animated silent films.
I'm ina very similar position, which is why I'm trying to use the unfortunate situation I've been forced into (Going back home and living with the rents for a while) to try and get myself set up, at least a little better, financially and equipment wise to start making my own live action short films. And hopefully a couple years down the line start making longer peices.
Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-06-02 03:31:49)
Not everyone has to make movies. FreddieW and other people like it don't trick you into watching their stuff. They're pretty open about the fact that they love Transformers type of movies and enjoy making short, goofy action shorts. They make that they want to make, have fun while doing it, millions of people love it and they get paid. On top of that it doesn't cost you anything to watch it and you can ignore it if you want to. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Not everyone has to make movies.
I get that and if it were just a couple of people then fine, the issue is that no one is.
It's a few outlying people actually attempting to make actual movies while the vast majority is not, instead of the other way around. Basically no one out there is making solid indie movies or anything besides transformers, blow-em-up, fan wankery.
Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-06-02 10:46:30)
Theres more people doing it then you would think, I mean how often do you get kickstarter spam from someone wanting you to pay for their feature?
whilst very few distributors seem interested these days in features without a 'name' for them to stick on the poster and there is a lot of talk of self distribution theres no 'hub' for them. No equivalent to an indie band sticking their album on itunes where everyone can find it.
You know, unless you get a sales agent who will put it on itunes and between them take something like 70% of your sales.
Theres also the logistical side of things, you can shoot a youtube short in an afternoon, a feature takes weeks (unless your going French New Wave) and getting locations, crew and cast to commit for that long is not nearly as easy.
But I agree theres no Robert Rodriguez or Kevin Smith to inspire the latest bunch of filmmakers in a way the dude who made Red State and the Spy Kids guy never will.
Monsters is the only real recent example I can think of where someone really went for it and applied their hobby VFX skills to make a good breakout feature film.
Important distinction here, not hobby skills. Gareth had been a professional effects artist for years.
isn't the idea that there isn't a market for small genre films more a perception of hollywood suits that has trinkled down to the creative types?
isn't the idea that there isn't a market for small genre films more a perception of hollywood suits that has trinkled down to the creative types?
Thats basically what I've been trying to say. Albeit confusedly and not very well 
I don't really understand the point of doing a web series. Like shorts, it's hard to make any money from them, so when they announce a Halo 4 series or a Battlestar Galactica prequel series, but it's a web series format, I know what they really mean is either a series of extended adverts to push something else or that they didn't think the story was good enough to bring to TV (which in turns means very little money since the return is minimal). As commercials, they're limited and as shorts, they're limited.
It's one thing to have a TV series that is distributed via the web, but that seems not to have occurred. Everyone appears to be making frustratingly too long or too short shorts.
The YouTube revenue model encourages web series. The YouTube partner system pays between between 1-5 dollars per thousand views, depending on factors such as the video content and type of ads shown*. Releasing multiple shorter videos over a number of weeks leads to more views and more chances people will share your links since the content is "new" for longer.
For things like Halo or Battlestar Galactica they probably aren't using YouTube, but the ad revenue math is likely similar.
* Disclaimer: I am not a YouTube Partner
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