Topic: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

I might be off-base with this.  I seem to be in a forgiving mood lately, as I didn't mind prometheus.  But here it goes...

I had a weird relationship with Star Wars.  Revenge of the Sith came out when I was 13, and I saw all six films that following summer.  Not enough of a Star Wars fan to have my childhood raped by any of the films, and not old enough really to pick out the "good ones," I just sort of casually enjoyed all six.  Years went by, flaws grew apparent, and I tried to distance myself from them.

But last night I did a weird thing.  It was the middle of the night, I couldn't fall asleep, and I went over to a pretty sizable DVD/Bluray collection and decided to pop in...Revenge of the Sith.  And for the following 2 hours, I laid in bed watching the film for the upteenth time, and was genuinely engaged with it.

This is not the first time this has happened.  While never really crossing that threshold into Star Wars geek (I had always been more drawn towards Spidey and Pirates), I can safely say that I have spent much of the past decade watching the prequels.  On DVD, and on TV.  And I always find myself enjoying them.  First out of excitement and curiosity, then out of shame, and lately with a genuine (if glossy, and distant) appreciation.

The transition from shame to appreciation has happened in the last two years, as my own admiration of the movie industry itself has plummeted to an all-time low. 

Now, I guess my question is....given all the shit we have to put up with now at the movies, were the prequels really that bad?  I mean, they had cringeworthy dialogue, were often incoherent, and clearly valued spectacle over characters.  But given that's what seems to be what's in style nowadays, I find there to be a lot of redeeming qualities to them.

1) The spectacle has some form of context.
2) Even given the 30 years of blockbuster cinema, and thousands of years of storytelling, they don't feel nearly as derivative. 
3) John Williams score
4) The overall ambition, and (forgive me) artistry behind them.  They do not feel cookie-cutter and cranked out by a studio.  They all feel like they were made by someone, and are all of a piece.  George Lucas is (forgive me, again) an auteur.  An incompetent auteur.  But an auteur nonetheless.

Is this really a good, and productive, reason to like a movie?  Justifying crap with other crap?  I guess not, but it is at least interesting.  I think there's something to be said about expectations and the state of film in general, when in the dreaded summer of 2011, any given Star Wars prequel might have been my favorite movie (Maybe, save for Super 8.  Was unimpressed by X-Men and Planet of the Apes). 

So how do the prequels measure up for you in 2012?  Are they any better than battleship and snow white, or should they all rot in movie hell just the same?

Last edited by gzarra (2012-06-10 16:20:12)

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

Oh boy. If the majority of today's movies are starting to make the Star Wars Prequels look good, Hollywood is really starting to shit the bed.

I'd go with the rot in movie hell option.

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

Sith gets the least complaints from fans. There's effectively no Jar Jar, less awkward romance, and more of a darker tone. If the other films had matched it, I think people would be fairly happy overall.

Jar Jar alone derails Phantom Menace. I honestly think that without him the film would play fine. There would still be things to complain about, but without that one thing to totally hate, the rest would feel like nitpicking.

Clones suffers terribly from Anakin's whining and the awkwardness of the romance. It's much worse than Phantom Menace because of that, and there's no easy fix for it, altho recasting Anakin would have helped.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

The prequels were, and always will be bad... (which is why I haven't watched them willingly in years)
...
But honestly, nothing could be worse than mass effect 3's ending.
...
* goes to cry in the corner *

Protection and power are overrated. I think you are very wise to choose happiness and love. -Uncle Iroh

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

I still haven't seen the Apes prequel, but I think X-Men First Class was easily better than any of the star wars prequels.

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

Oh, it was loads better.  I still had several issues with it though.  And it's more of a taste thing. 

That might have not been the fairest comparison.  My larger point was towards the film industry in general.

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

This thread makes me sad.

I mean, you could build an argument on this line of thinking. Alas, I don't think it'd be wise to do so, because it's fucking hard to tell where legitimate storytelling complaints end and general "this is the way of things" fatalism begin.

Let's call the whole thing off. Who's got a cave and some bits of charcoal?

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

Meh, I still like the prequels. I can recognise their flaws, but I still get a kick out of them. I do wonder if I'd feel differently if I were older though.

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

You would feel different. A lot of it has to do with what movies you grew up on and were surrounded by. I grew up on Star Wars, Close Encounters, ET, Alien and Jaws. If you grew up with Jurassic Park, ID4, Stargate and Home Alone, then Episode One probably fits right in.

But, personally, while I like Jurassic Park (for the most part), I hate every single one of those other ones. Just a totally different approach to how to tell a story. There's a fundamental difference in those movies, beyond just acting or editing or whatever.

EDIT: But then, I don't know how old you are, either. That's just my own history.

Last edited by Squiggly_P (2012-06-10 22:03:26)

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

I don't really see how TPM fits rights right in with those movies, Jurassic Park and Stargate in particular don't really have anything in common with the first of the SW prequels. (I also think Stargate is an underrated classic.)

Zarban wrote:

Sith gets the least complaints from fans. There's effectively no Jar Jar, less awkward romance, and more of a darker tone. If the other films had matched it, I think people would be fairly happy overall.

I've heard this sentiment from a few folk in the years since its release and I don't really agree. Personnally, I find ROTS the most 'offensive' of all films, simply on the basis of its astounding failure to tell a convincing and coherent story about a hero's fall. I challenge anyone to explain the 3 or 4 180s that Anakin does in the span of 5 minutes. It gets a pass mostly on the basis of its glossier lipstick, but it's still a fugly pig. And the way it panics and rushes itself to tie up loose ends is horrible (during which Lucas chooses to 'rhyme' with Owen looking at the Binary Sunset, a shot that makes no sense in terms of character).

Zarban wrote:

Jar Jar alone derails Phantom Menace. I honestly think that without him the film would play fine. There would still be things to complain about, but without that one thing to totally hate, the rest would feel like nitpicking.

I find TPM to be the best of the prequels but it's fundamental problem is its story and structure, upon which it adds the double threat of Jake Lloyd's Anakin and Binks. Remove Binks and you still have an atrocious performance in Anakin and no real protagonist to root for except Neeson's QuiGon Jinn, who isn't really that likeable anyway.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

redxavier wrote:

I find ROTS the most 'offensive' of all films, simply on the basis of its astounding failure to tell a convincing and coherent story about a hero's fall.

I find TPM to be the best of the prequels but it's fundamental problem is its story and structure, upon which it adds the double threat of Jake Lloyd's Anakin and Binks.

Yes and no. TPM IS the best of the prequels EXCEPT that Jar Jar makes it almost unbearable. And yes ROTS is bad because of Anakin. But, like I said, get rid of Jar Jar and make Anakin cooler and less whiny in AOTC and ROTS and fans would be happy with all three films. They would still have problems, but the fans would mutter about them instead of ranting about George Lucas raping their childhoods.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

I really wish we would stop talking about the prequels.

Edit: Not in a "let's forget they exist" kind of way, but more of a "I think we've talked about them enough over the last three years" way.

Last edited by Holden (2012-06-11 06:24:40)

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Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

I was fortunate enough to be born in 1990, And to have an uncle who was a movie buff. By the time I saw episode one I was 9, but had seen the original trilogy enough times that I had to get another copy of Star wars (..... a new hope.....) due to the tape wearing out.

And I enjoyed it. Jar jar was never a funny character even at that time, but I thought of it as the C-3P0 of this movie, someone annoying, but basically acts at the 'vessal' for the audience.

I got older, saw Episode 2 with middle school friends, and then finally episode 3 as an awkward high schooler...  alone.
It was then I discovered what I loved in Star Wars, the production design/modelwork and whathaveyou... WORLD BUILDING. All of which weren't present in the newer 3.
It became a fanservice fiesta.

and its hard for me to look at it in any way but that.

Re: The Prequels. In 2012, how bad are they ACTUALLY

Holden wrote:

I really wish we would stop talking about the prequels.

This.

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