• Ian
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Topic: Lyrics, man.

Do any folks here do music with lyrics?

My biggest struggle in life is that I suck at 'em. Which is indicative of a pretty good life, I guess, but it's a thing I probably fight with an hour a day almost every day for years.

I love melodies, I've actually gotten decent at guitar, I think I could even get my voice to an alright place, but the moment I try to put lyrics on it, everything falls apart. You have to be vague, but you still have to have them about something, otherwise it's a waste. They should be potent/relevant without sounding like they're trying too hard.

Is the problem that there's some Lyrical Uncanny Valley? Like, lyrics are usually expected to be inane. A thing you don't listen to. Dumb people have no problem writing lyrics, cause that's the baseline of what lyrics are supposed to be. And if they're not, they have to be these little nuggest of wisdom glowing on the other end of the spectrum? But what if you're not a genius, but also not totally dumb? Maybe it's just a classic example of my ability to criticise overpowering my ability to create.

Or maybe I'm just rejecting the idea of taking a melody and trying to reduce it to whatever concept the lyrics are about? That's kinda a disconnect there; melodies are emotion, and lyrics seem more intellectual (or- probably not, but that's my entire problem). The music in my head usually tends to have a lot more gravitas than whatever I'd be inclined to sing about.

Or maybe it's that I don't think in ways that translate into lyrics? "Why are you getting so upset about this? Let's break it down into its core axioms and identify the actual cause of our conflict, lalala" or "I'm afraid you're judging me for not wanting to go to your stupid party to throw my hands up in the air sometimes, so maybe I'll just go", or, vastly more frequently, bemoaning my personal tragedy of "Why do I suck all the rhino balls at lyrics? Baby?".

So I dunno. Does anyone have any thoughts/advice? Or any bands with lyrics that you just totally dig? I always feel a little thrill when I'm listening to an artist and suddenly realize, "oh man- this is a person who thinks a lot, and is still able to make music-for-the-masses." (or, just as fun, music not-for-the-masses-at-all-actually (or, even more impressive, music that seems like the second one but is actually the first one)). I've tried doing collaborations with people, and that can work, and be super cool, but I also wanna figure it out on my end.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm trying to come across as an intellectual- I'm really not- but I do tend to overthink stuff, and I haven't figured out how to use it for good-not-evil in this case, yet.

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  • Lamer
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Re: Lyrics, man.

http://soundcloud.com/atomiccityband/lost-36
http://soundcloud.com/atomiccityband/at … side-of-me

Here's some of my bands recordings. I wrote the lyrics to most of the songs we used to play. I got better at it while writing for our 2nd demo which has been 'in production' since 2009 so I can't show you those tracks yet (but there is a light at the end of the tunnel).

I start by constructing the vocal lines on guitar as a pure melody. Then I write lyrics on top of that matching the syllables and words to the guitar track. This is good because it limits your choice of words. You can only have so many syllables in a single verse so you have to get creative about how to get your point across and not write an essay on the subject.

As for the subject matter I like to start with a simple idea and explore it 'from the inside out'. So after reading The Bourne trilogy I wrote a song called Identity, which is about having a darker personality stuck inside your head and letting it take over every once in a while out of necessity. At least that was the main idea. The moment you put it down on paper it gets a life of its own and everyone will find a different meaning in there.

Take inspiration and ideas (themes?) from everywhere. Even if you think the source is stupid the idea itself might be cool if think about it for a bit. That's how an episode of Dragon Ball Z turned into a song about an android wishing to be human and going insane at the same time. Or a quick game of Interstate 76 was an inspiration to write about being the last line of defense from total anarchy in a postapocalyptic world. It sounds kind of deep when you spell it like that but I assure you it's not wink

Or you can go the alternative route and write about some stupid shit just for fun with very little meaning behind it. Then show it to people and get feedback. As an excercise. It takes away the burden of being 'meaningful' because you know your writing silly stuff. There's no pressure and it's a good practice.

That's how I wrote a song called 'Life On Mars' which is pretty self explanatory wink

It's the first one on the list: http://lamer.3design.net.pl/music/

Last edited by Lamer (2012-08-11 23:31:51)

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  • Teague
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Re: Lyrics, man.

Here's the secret: lyrics don't matter that much, and the better the song is musically, the less they matter. Typically, the only words in the song that even almost matter are the first line (establishes the tone, the perspective, the style) and the chorus (has to exemplify the point you're making). If every single word of "I Kissed A Girl" was different except for the chorus, it'd be the same fucking song to anybody but Katy Perry. She's the only one who really cared at the time, and might not care anymore. (Supposing, you know, that she wrote that song.)

I'm not saying they're not something you should slave over or anything, I spend ages on my lyrics. But about a week after the song is done, those lyrics which NEVER SEEM RIGHT when the song is in progress, the ones that still suck the most at the end of the day, become something else.

...they become the lyrics.

They're just the words. Do your best on them, but at the end of the day, the song is gonna be what it's gonna be, and people are gonna sing whatever you write.

EDIT: I'll add to this. It might seem like heresy, incorrectitude, sacrilege, or "this guy is a bad songwriter" that I say that, so let me explain why I do. Ultimately, I'm sold on melody and chords. The words are the drink with the meal. Naturally if you're making something incredibly sweet and rich to eat - like a box of Nerds with chocolate on top - you're just gonna want a glass of water with that meal. See "I Kissed A Girl," and the lyrics that aren't so important. If you're writing something a bit more... valid, I guess, like an Elliot Smith song, that's gotta be a nice round meal. Nice chicken, good glaze, maybe some noodles, and a glass of wine for lyrics. They accent everything, but at the end of the day, the chicken and noodles wouldn't be worse if you were drinking water. "Say Yes" would be exactly as listenable if the words were different. "Imagine." "Hallelujah." The really good songs are good enough that you can just hum the tune and ignore the words.

The song is the song. The words are whatever you want them to be, do your best, but don't stress on it. That's my outlook. You're not gonna have ANYTHING if the music is shit, that's where I think you should focus. Great lyrics are great, but they're an afterthought sometimes, and that's okay. Know what the song is about, know what you want to say, and say it. Done.

EDIT: One last idea, this is a trick I've used before. If you're really stuck, start over, and do this. Make the ENTIRE idea you're conveying an analogy, and sing the analogy without ever referring to what you're really talking about. Make it abstract.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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  • Teague
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Re: Lyrics, man.

Damn, Lamer. This is great. Sounds a bit like a forgotten The Birthday Massacre song. More metal-y, with a dude singer. I'm sold.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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  • Lamer
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Re: Lyrics, man.

I can't listen to the song you posted so I don't know whether you're referring to Atomic City or my solo Mars endevour. Either way, Thank You smile

If you like AC there are 3 more songs here: http://soundcloud.com/atomiccityband smile

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