Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

fireproof78 wrote:
avatar wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

The extras are very much worth it, delving in to so much of the production and actors and character development. I loved all of that stuff and well worth it.

At least if Hobbit 2 & 3 are bland/lame, we'll have the superb extras to look forward to.

I'm surprised how 'honest' these behind-the-scenes are - very rare for tentpoles so soon after they're released. Ian McKellen is shown spitting the dummy at least twice, the production crew are shown resistant to Peter Jackson's hare-drawn sled idea (is he becoming Lucas?) , the actors who played goblins are shown disappointed at being replaced by digital goblins, the actors are shown workshopping the script in the council of Eldrond scene, the AD is shown impatient with Christopher Lee's endless stories, etc.

I missed the AD part, but wow...really?

Anyway, I love the honesty of the BTS and making off featurettes. The actors are incredibly generous with their time and and I love the way they describe the process of getting in to character and working. Scene 88 is incredible.

As for Jackson's excess, I think he is becoming Lucas in the sense that he feels he will never get to visit Middle Earth again so he is pouring so much in to it, possibly without thinking. That may be one of the reasons Christopher Tolkien is getting so annoyed with the films is the amount of liberties they are taking due to Jackson's whim.

It is an incredible process that is going on, and I personally, am looking forward to seeing the rest of it unfold.

I've now seen all the Hobbit 1 extras, and the video blogs / trailers for the upcoming Hobbit 2, and to be honest, there's no indication these prequels will improve.

1. The move away from models and prosthetics to CG has allowed endless consequence-less action sequences that are shot/edited too fast for the audience to enjoy, especially in 3D. Having it PG13 and with indestructible characters doesn't help. Just looks and feels cartoony.

2. There's too many dwarves, and most have no personality or individual skills. It's a movie limitation that you have an upper limit on the number of characters the audience can have empathy for, especially if 50% of the movie is chasing/action/fighting scenes. In addition, half the dwarves don't even look like dwarves. Killi and Filli look like rangers. And at least two of the dwarves look retarded. Only Balin and Thorin stand out.

3. The humour doesn't work. At all. We get it - dwarves aren't well behaved at dinner.

4. Martin Freeman - wanted to like him, but he's too whiny. All he does is bitch. The emotional beats with Thorin were forced. And Bilbo is bland e.g. he expressed no wonder at seeing Rivendell the first time. Why does he suddenly want to help the dwarves with their quest at the end of AUJ - it was a pay-off with no set-up, as was the Thorin reconciliation. In LOTR, as Frodo became possessed, Sean Astin carried the emotional weight of the quest. There is no equivalent character here.

5. I get the sense Peter Jackson now has too much money and time and an sense of infallibility and he's lost his ability to generate interesting new ideas. This has happened to Lucas and Ridley Scott and no doubt other directors what have been showered with accolades.

not long to go now...

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Good points all.

avatar wrote:

...and he's lost his ability to generate interesting new ideas.

I actually think this is the problem. He's generating new ideas which aren't in any way necessary. I really enjoyed watching the film, but if there was any one problem which I had to pick, it would be that The Hobbit suffers from having too many ideas, which inevitably pull and push it into all sorts of directions.

It's exhausting.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

avatar wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:
avatar wrote:

At least if Hobbit 2 & 3 are bland/lame, we'll have the superb extras to look forward to.

I'm surprised how 'honest' these behind-the-scenes are - very rare for tentpoles so soon after they're released. Ian McKellen is shown spitting the dummy at least twice, the production crew are shown resistant to Peter Jackson's hare-drawn sled idea (is he becoming Lucas?) , the actors who played goblins are shown disappointed at being replaced by digital goblins, the actors are shown workshopping the script in the council of Eldrond scene, the AD is shown impatient with Christopher Lee's endless stories, etc.

I missed the AD part, but wow...really?

Anyway, I love the honesty of the BTS and making off featurettes. The actors are incredibly generous with their time and and I love the way they describe the process of getting in to character and working. Scene 88 is incredible.

As for Jackson's excess, I think he is becoming Lucas in the sense that he feels he will never get to visit Middle Earth again so he is pouring so much in to it, possibly without thinking. That may be one of the reasons Christopher Tolkien is getting so annoyed with the films is the amount of liberties they are taking due to Jackson's whim.

It is an incredible process that is going on, and I personally, am looking forward to seeing the rest of it unfold.

I've now seen all the Hobbit 1 extras, and the video blogs / trailers for the upcoming Hobbit 2, and to be honest, there's no indication these prequels will improve.

1. The move away from models and prosthetics to CG has allowed endless consequence-less action sequences that are shot/edited too fast for the audience to enjoy, especially in 3D. Having it PG13 and with indestructible characters doesn't help. Just looks and feels cartoony.

2. There's too many dwarves, and most have no personality or individual skills. It's a movie limitation that you have an upper limit on the number of characters the audience can have empathy for, especially if 50% of the movie is chasing/action/fighting scenes. In addition, half the dwarves don't even look like dwarves. Killi and Filli look like rangers. And at least two of the dwarves look retarded. Only Balin and Thorin stand out.

3. The humour doesn't work. At all. We get it - dwarves aren't well behaved at dinner.

4. Martin Freeman - wanted to like him, but he's too whiny. All he does is bitch. The emotional beats with Thorin were forced. And Bilbo is bland e.g. he expressed no wonder at seeing Rivendell the first time. Why does he suddenly want to help the dwarves with their quest at the end of AUJ - it was a pay-off with no set-up, as was the Thorin reconciliation. In LOTR, as Frodo became possessed, Sean Astin carried the emotional weight of the quest. There is no equivalent character here.

5. I get the sense Peter Jackson now has too much money and time and an sense of infallibility and he's lost his ability to generate interesting new ideas. This has happened to Lucas and Ridley Scott and no doubt other directors what have been showered with accolades.

Good points smile

1. At the risk of sounding nerdy, someone rang the physics of some of the more improbable stunts in AUE, including the bridge fall. Apparently, it works in the math lol
But, yeah, it just seems all so contrived at points. Goblin Town worked for me until the bridge fall. Also, the Goblin King's EE song  hmm

2. Yeah, this is one of the reasons that I honestly think that the Hobbit should have never been made a film. There is too big of an ensemble to make both memorable and work on screen. I mean, Firefly to Serenity struggled with it and that was with 7 characters. not 14! The human brain works well with 7 characters, as far as memory goes, but exceeding that runs in to problems.

Though, I do like Balin and Dwalin and Oin and Gloin. Those four work the best as dwarves for me, and Thorin's character arc is at least interesting to me, as a tragedy. I'm having a hard time with the fact that the whole point of the movie is to follow his character only for it to end badly, but Armitage's pefromance is so good that I willing to go along with it.

It's interesting, that when Tolkien wrote his books, he conceived Elves as being more powerful and beautiful than the current idea of little Tinker Bell-esque figures who fix shoes. While the Dwarves are not the classic Dwarves that we would come to recognize, I think there is an aspect of Tolkien's evolving mythology that allows for the different looks. A mixed bag.

3. Yeah, I really don't need more bad table manners on screen. Though, as I'm sure you've heard, they behaved well at Beorn's house wink

4. I think that Martin works in spots but doesn't in others, because the movie does not give enough time to his reactions. Like you said, it moves from action beat to action beat. Where Bilbo's arc starts to come through is the whole part before Goblin town with Bofur about being home sick. I think that is what feeds the reconciliation at the end. It's brevity, in part, may come from the fact that their character arcs are incomplete.

5. I really wish Del Toro had stayed on. However, with all the pre-preproudction trouble, you would think someone would go "Hm, maybe we shouldn't make these movies..."

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Similarities between Star Wars and Lord of the Rings/Hobbit:

1. Both original trilogies have great critical acclaim, box office revenue and awards. Subsequently trilogy cashes in on the goodwill with high box office, but less well received by fans and critics.

2. Original trilogies are trailblazers in VFX and receive many awards. Subsequent trilogy is largely ignored in major VFX awards. Matrix beat Star Wars Prequels, Life of Pi beat Hobbit 1, and Gravity will trounce Hobbit 2.

3. Original trilogies use a lot of real sets, models, locations, etc. Subsequent trilogy relies more on green screen and CG and digital characters.

4. Original trilogies feel like they're for adults too, subsequent trilogy feels like it's more for kiddies. This goes against the trend of other franchises (e.g. Dark Knight Trilogy) that become darker with each reincarnation.

5. There's a gap of over 10 years between production on the original trilogies and the subsequent prequel trilogies.

6. Both directors created their own private effects studios.

7. Ummm.. and they both have beards.

Having said that, the Hobbit is still better than Phantom Menace, but you'd think some of the obvious pitfalls (e.g. less is more) would be avoided with that much warning, given the backlash against the Star Wars prequels.

not long to go now...

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

avatar wrote:

3. Original trilogies use a lot of real sets, models, locations, etc. Subsequent trilogy relies more on green screen and CG and digital characters.

Starting at 1:30:


I sad.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I just heard the Special Edition DOS soundtrack - but I'm not feeling it. There's a couple of okay sections, but no where near the quality of the original scores. And that can't be blamed on green screen and CG. Just like John Williams' prequel scores weren't up to the standard of the original scores.

not long to go now...

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Ya, I wasn't a fan of the Unexpected Journey score either. One decent theme and that's pretty much all it has to offer, compared to like 6 amazing themes in Fellowship.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Well, I have pretty much given up on the Hobbit. I will watch it and I will enjoy the spectacle, but LOTR is firmly my favorite book adaptation and Jackson work. All the leaky info for DoS has pretty got me going *shrug*

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Sam F wrote:

Starting at 1:30:

"...a maaaaster..."

Oh god, the suppressed sarcasm, you could cut it with a knife, it's painful.

Yep, my anticipation level for DoS hasn't changed since I walked out of the theater for the first one. Not interested, probably see it when my parents buy it on blurry and I stumble across it in the house a year and a half from now.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2013-12-12 02:41:38)

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

My little sister is 13 and she loves the book. She's super psyched for DoS, so I'll take her to see it.

Maybe this trilogy isn't for us. Maybe this is her thing. She'll probably love this year's Hobbit, and next year's. She'll grow up remembering how much she loved them. We got a great Middle-Earth trilogy from Peter Jackson. We can hand off the next one.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:

My little sister is 13 and she loves the book. She's super psyched for DoS, so I'll take her to see it.

Maybe this trilogy isn't for us. Maybe this is her thing. She'll probably love this year's Hobbit, and next year's. She'll grow up remembering how much she loved them. We got a great Middle-Earth trilogy from Peter Jackson. We can hand off the next one.

I would agree with this and this is why I have no problem with the tone choice of the first one, even compared to LOTR.

I just feel like the Hobbit cannot be adapted very well, but that is just me. The movies overall will probably be well done, but just not my thing in terms of their replay value.

However, I will still see it next week and am amazed by the work done.

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Maybe this trilogy isn't for us. Maybe this is her thing. She'll probably love this year's Hobbit, and next year's. She'll grow up remembering how much she loved them. We got a great Middle-Earth trilogy from Peter Jackson. We can hand off the next one.

I like the thought, but there's a generation of kids who grew up loving the Phantom Menace too.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I love the book too. And it's because of this that I strongly dislike the direction Jackson went. There's no consistency between these movies and the ones Jackson made a decade ago. I was worried back when this was just going to be two movies, because I didn't see how the Hobbit could possibly be more than one movie (even if it said movie was closing in on 3 hours). Now we have 3 movies, each jammed to the brim full of shit that completely deviates from the original story line (of course this is only an assumption for the next two, but based on the trailer...)

If your sister loves them, great. But in know way does that justify what Jackson did, at least in my mind.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Withkittens wrote:

If your sister loves them, great. But in know way does that justify what Jackson did, at least in my mind.

I mean, yeah. It's less a comment on the films' quality and more me ceasing to care.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:
Withkittens wrote:

If your sister loves them, great. But in know way does that justify what Jackson did, at least in my mind.

I mean, yeah. It's less a comment on the films' quality and more me ceasing to care.

Yeah.

For me, the Hobbit book is not really why I'm annoyed by the movie so much as I don't think it should have been made in to a movie. So, it has kind of divorced, in my mind, from the book and from the LOTR trilogy. I still think it is a pretty film, there are some fun, entertaining bits, and it is fine for me like that. I love seeing Gandalf and Radagast, and highly anticipate Cumberbatch's performance.

Oh, there is more I am looking forward too...cool smile

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

avatar wrote:

I just heard the Special Edition DOS soundtrack - but I'm not feeling it. There's a couple of okay sections, but no where near the quality of the original scores. And that can't be blamed on green screen and CG. Just like John Williams' prequel scores weren't up to the standard of the original scores.

So far, I have not been impressed by the DOS soundtrack but this cover of the credits song impressed me:

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Empire magazine have given it a five star review, althouh they gave the first one four stars.

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Honest Trailers just did the Hobbit 1...

"Shot on location in some of New Zealand's most beautiful green-screen studios"  lol

not long to go now...

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

"yet more walking!"  big_smile

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

120

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Just got back from the premier and I'm exhausted. I think half my brain cut out about halfway through the movie so I really don't want to say much about it. I'll have much more to say later but for now I'll keep it simple and say one good thing and one bad.

Good: Smaug was really cool.
Bad: The cinematography, for the most part, was detestable (in my opinion).

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