Topic: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Lexi Alexander (whom I have great respect for, after listening to her and Patton Oswalt explain to Paul Scheer how her film, Punisher: War Zone was a comedy ON PURPOSE, even though I still don't like the movie) recently wrote a blog post about the Hollywood System and their bias towards film makers who are White Men. Adam Quigley (formerly of the /Filmcast and known in some circles for his "You Don't Understand Sucker Punch" video on YouTube) blogged an extensive rebuttal, in which he tracks the career trajectories of some of the Directors that Alexander name-dropped as part of the problem. He's suggesting that while she may have a point or two, it's not necessarily so cut and dry, and he provides some evidence to that, discussing other Female Directors and ethnically diverse film makers as well.

I'm curious to hear from this community on the subject but as for myself, I'm reminded of this line from Kevin Smith's Chasing Amy:

Hooper X: "Screw that "all for one" shit, alright? I gotta deal with being a minority in a minority of the minority, and nobody's supportin' my ass."

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Adam Quigley's rebuttal is extremely misguided. Has he considered that if female directors were given the chance to helm big-budget projects, maybe they'd be successful?

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Not sure what you mean. His point is that virtually all directors start small and then fail or thrive on their ability to turn a profit. Do we know of black, Asian, or female directors who hit big but weren't given another chance? Or who weren't given a second chance after a modest failure?

I think the problem is more basic: black, Asian, and female directors aren't even getting into the game in the first place because they lack many of the resources young, white men have. If Sundance and others had a lot of diversity but only the white male film makers were getting deals to move into major features, then that would be really telling, but I don't think that's the case.

Last edited by Zarban (2014-06-06 22:51:39)

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

johnpavlich wrote:

He's suggesting that while she may have a point or two, it's not necessarily so cut and dry, and he provides some evidence to that, discussing other Female Directors and ethnically diverse film makers as well.

I couldn't read Lexi Alexander's initial blog post, but that rebuttal is ridiculous. He gets hung up on her analogy, of all things, and wastes a lot of time playing a dubious numbers game to try and show just how inaccurate of an analogy it is. No real challenge to the argument itself. Just the analogy. Pages and pages of crap to "prove" that her analogy is wrong. Why on Earth would he do something so dumb?

Because he thinks she's being overly emotional.

*sigh*

I don't have an opinion of his opinion because his opinion is stupid. If you want me to take you seriously, you don't start off talking about how it's okay to dismiss what women and minorities have to say because they're being overly emotional. That's like the very definition of sexist bullshit.

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Wow. That is an unfair reading. He was talking about his emotions, not hers. And the soccer analogy is the heart of her argument. She wants to be picked to helm a big movie, but these these white guys keep getting picked. His point is that those white guys had much the same chance as she did but proved out the gate that they could make money, and she had flops.

Last edited by Zarban (2014-06-06 23:42:09)

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

No it's not.

As I said, I couldn't read her blog post. It wouldn't load for some reason.

But, he clearly says,

Because I’ve watched this debate rage on for years, and I have yet to see an argument supported by anything other than emotion.

He then accuses her of the same thing and provides a ton of shoddy evidence to support his argument. And I say his evidence is shoddy because he qualifies it by saying that the numbers are basically bullshit and everything is based on perception anyway. So, if that's the case, why bring out the numbers in the first place? Because that makes his argument sound less emotional than hers, even though it isn't.

Last edited by Cotterpin Doozer (2014-06-07 00:04:00)

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

There's no denying that her films were financially unsuccessful, and the names she names were financially successful. The exact numbers don't matter. His point remains valid.

And again, he points out that he shares the emotional reaction to the situation.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

To be fair, the soccer analogy isn't a great one because it ignores the social pressures that discourage the other girls from playing with the boys.  Alexander's essay has some flaws but the overall point is fairly incontrovertible.   Quigley acknowledges and then ignores the actual issue to the detriment of the position he claims to support. 

Of course Hollywood has a white male director problem.

Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Yeah, Quigley's counter-argument seems to be "LOOK SEE ALL THESE MALE DIRECTORS ARE GOOD SO THEY DESERVE THEIR SUCCESS SO LEAVE MEN ALONE" which is obviously dumb. He's acting like Monsters and Following were gigantic successes that made the directors' follow-up projects guaranteed successes. That's plain nonsense. Frankly, getting Gareth Edwards to direct Godzilla was a TERRIBLE idea. It happened to work out very well, because the studio was behind him and they helped him achieve his vision. But Quigley is pretending that these male directors all "proved themselves" with their first features, which led to them getting big studio films. Wrong. They proved themselves on those big studio films. Indie success is no guarantee of mainstream success.

So here's an idea, Hollywood. Take a chance on some female directors every so often. Because it might work out really well.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Comparing a (presumably) less-successful female director's track record with the track records of successful male directors is an "apples and oranges" argument, even without raising the topic of gender.  There are directors who have success, there are those that don't.   It's a rough business and if talent were the only factor it might make some kind of sense.  But there's also dumb luck and timing and favoritism and backstabbing and everything else that can affect the success of a particular film, and thus the careers of the people who made it.   

However... Alexander wasn't talking about track records when she named those specific names.  Plenty of male directors have gotten their shot, but had career-killing flops and have never been heard from again.  And there are female directors who have had quite nice careers.  But Alexander was talking about how often men get a turn at bat vs. how often women do.    Men are more successful than women as directors overall because men get more chances to direct than women do.  (Ditto for white vs non-white directors, while we're at it.)

This isn't some specific illness in the movie biz, of course - most of human endeavor in the Western world is dominated by white men.   That is not to say it isn't a problem in showbiz, or that it can't be fixed, or shouldn't be pointed out.  It may seem more odd in showbiz where we're supposed to be all enlightened and stuff... but that's us down here in the trenches creating stuff.  Business decisions at the top are made by the same kind of people who make decisions at Chrysler and Bank of America - mostly white guys.

Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Doctor Submarine wrote:

So here's an idea, Hollywood. Take a chance on some female directors every so often. Because it might work out really well.

Isn't that part of Adam's point though, that Hollywood DOES take chances on some female directors every so often? In addition to his list of working, female film makers, he also talks extensively about women like Kathryn Bigelow, who have made high-profile/high-cost projects, all with varying degrees of success (he forgot about Karyn Kusama, director of Girlfight, Aeon Flux and Jennifer's Body). He also brings up the possibility that some of these women aren't doing big, mainstream films simply because they CHOOSE NOT TO. They may not be interested in telling those kinds of stories.

I think his main argument is that he feels Lexi Alexander's soccer analogy is self-defeating, when she sees herself as a victim of an unfair system. She's using the soccer analogy to imply that she has what it takes but no one will pick her to prove it, because she's a woman. Adam is using the soccer analogy against her to imply that people aren't necessarily being chosen because they have slick moves or cunning strategies, but because they win games (meaning, they turn a profit for the studio) and in some cases, they continue to be invited to play because they ARE talented athletes. He's also using it against her in the sense that she's not being picked regularly because they put her in a game and she botched it up so royally, they're hesitant to do it again.

If we are to go with Adam's assumption of Lexi Alexander and her talent, my advice to her would be, "Stop being a baby and just go out and get what you want, instead of complaining that no one will give you what you want. Get off the internet and go make movies. Do what some of these other, more successful women have done: Make some low-budget films that not only showcase your artistic talents but also show the big studios that you can stretch a dollar like no one else because that's the first thing they're going to notice, especially since these are numbers guys, not artists. Go out and make things happen for yourself, instead o waiting for things to happen to you. If you don't think the men will care, play to the women who are in power because they do exist. If you're as good as you believe yourself to be, then someone WILL take notice and put you on that big, mainstream project you so desperately want. It's only a matter of time."

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Look, whether or not women are treated fairly in the movie business isn't up for debate. They aren't. Saying that studios allow them opportunities "every so often" as if that's acceptable is...not okay. The idea that Hollywood is purely egalitarian and that male directors just happen to be more talented than female directors is absurd. Just look at this recent Ant-Man debacle. Was a single woman up for that project? Nope. You know how many times a female-directed film has been nominated for Best Picture? SIX. And two of those were from the same woman, Kathryn Bigelow. Do you really think that the reason for this drought of female-directed blockbusters is because none of them have ever made successful indie films? Come the fuck on. Denying that this is a problem or brushing it aside as, "Well, women just don't try hard enough!" is sexist, and that shouldn't need to be said.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Look, whether or not women are treated fairly in the movie business isn't up for debate. They aren't. Saying that studios allow them opportunities "every so often" as if that's acceptable is...not okay. The idea that Hollywood is purely egalitarian and that male directors just happen to be more talented than female directors is absurd. Just look at this recent Ant-Man debacle. Was a single woman up for that project? Nope. You know how many times a female-directed film has been nominated for Best Picture? SIX. And two of those were from the same woman, Kathryn Bigelow. Do you really think that the reason for this drought of female-directed blockbusters is because none of them have ever made successful indie films? Come the fuck on. Denying that this is a problem or brushing it aside as, "Well, women just don't try hard enough!" is sexist, and that shouldn't need to be said.

I'm not sure that's what Adam is saying but I agree with you, regardless.

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Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Hollywood is, despite occasional claims to the contrary, risk-averse. This means going with tried-and-tested. And 99% of the time, this means white male directors. It's a self-perpetuating cycle. I don't really see this as something that can be debated with ambiguity.

The thing worth discussing, I think, is how exactly to achieve an actual equality of opportunity. I remember somebody (half-certain it was Geena Davis) saying that if you look at a crowd scene, it's only about 20% female. There's nothing stopping us from having it be 50/50 (and, sidenote, shouldn't this be easier to do, considering women generally get paid less than men anyway?). This is non-speaking, relatively passive work, and we can't even get that right. Pretty disheartening. So having fairer proportions of male/female directors isn't going to be easy to do.

I'm sure that this is a top-down (white males at the top make most of the decisions) and bottom-up (less women pursue directing, maybe?) problem, though.

About that last point. A question, for those of you who went to film school: roughly what was the female/male ratio?

Disclaimer: if you dislike the tone of a post I make, re-read it in a North/East London accent until it sounds sufficiently playful smile

Re: Does Hollywood have a "White Male Director" problem?

Yeah, with Trey, but he buried the lede. This is a world problem, not just movies.

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