Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

avatar wrote:

Second viewing.. some observations

Saw it on the biggest IMAX screen in the world tonight. More questions...

* Why did Fin want to leave in Rey in the bar? And 10 minutes later he was freaking out when she was being carried away. It's like that contrived rom-com formula where they have be break up for a bit, except this one felt totally unmotivated.

* Why doesn't Chewie fire his bow several times when Han dies? Just one lame shot and a long pause and then turns to stormtroopers. His best mate just died. He should have been hammering Kylo with rapid fire as soon as the saber went through Han. And what's he doing during the whole duel scene? He could've helped them out. Lucky the planet took so long to explode as Poe blew up the thermal oscillator ages ago.

Okay, that first one is unfair. There's a big difference between leaving someone who's safe and with friends (and pleading with her to stay safe) and watching her being carried off unconscious by the enemy bad guy. They were parting as friends the first time, the second time he was seeing her being captured by the man he watched slaughter an entire village.

Considering all the other enemies that were decimated by it, Chewie probably assumed Kylo was dead. Plus if he hadn't immediately dealt with the other troopers he and the others would probably have been shot to pieces.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Darth Praxus wrote:

Considering all the other enemies that were decimated by it, Chewie probably assumed Kylo was dead. Plus if he hadn't immediately dealt with the other troopers he and the others would probably have been shot to pieces.

Also, I mean, Wookie psychology is probably not horribly well established, but I imagine he went into shock for a few seconds there having just watched his best friend and partner slaughtered in front of him.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

avatar wrote:

* Why did Fin want to leave in Rey in the bar? And 10 minutes later he was freaking out when she was being carried away. It's like that contrived rom-com formula where they have be break up for a bit, except this one felt totally unmotivated.

I forget the details, but he wanted, if I recall correctly, to escape to the outer rim, and wanted Rey with him. He then felt compassion to help her out.

avatar wrote:

* So R2D2 had the map the whole time and was just sulking? Didn't anyone know that? And Kylo knew what piece was missing and couldn't figure it was the Jedi Temple?

If I told you this important stone is on our planet, why can't you just find it? I mean, it's definitely here.

avatar wrote:

* Is the Falcon a piece of shit or not? They want it both ways. Traders steal it off each other (so it must be in demand) then it sits under tarps collecting rust and is their second choice.

By people who don't know it, it's a piece of shit. I wager the current trader is just sick of this ship getting in his way, and just tucked it away instead of risking it get stolen again.

avatar wrote:

* Why doesn't Chewie fire his bow several times when Han dies? Just one lame shot and a long pause and then turns to stormtroopers. His best mate just died. He should have been hammering Kylo with rapid fire as soon as the saber went through Han. And what's he doing during the whole duel scene? He could've helped them out. Lucky the planet took so long to explode as Poe blew up the thermal oscillator ages ago.

Yeah, I got nothing.

avatar wrote:

* Han seemed to frequent Maz's bar a lot but was unaware Luke's saber was stashed in the basement.

Obviously the saber is on a need-to-know basis. Han simply didn't need to know.

avatar wrote:

* Still not clear if the Empire is the same as the First Order and what the relationship between the Sith and First Order is (is one subordinate to the other?)

Owen explained this pretty good further up.

avatar wrote:

* Rey has to be Luke's daughter, right? There were a few subtle clues in the flashback sequence. Luke got drunk around the bonfire on Endor and knocked someone up.

It certainly is played out like that, and I would be surprised if she isn't.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

The Falcon IS a piece of shit, and that's part of why we have such affection for it. It's a smuggler's ship. Han was a blue collar type, and the Falcon was his work vehicle for hauling loads, almost like an space UPS truck or an 18-wheeler. Is a Mack truck that's been in service for many years a piece of shit? It may well be--in the sense that it's not a luxury vehicle with leather seats, not a hot rod, not a limo. But the trucker who's driven it all those years might think it's the best vehicle ever, might have given it a name. Are there "better" vehicles? Hell yes. But old Susie gets the job done, even if she doesn't always work perfectly. That's the Falcon. (I like to imagine that Han's Kessel Run record had more to do with savvy smuggler piloting skills than having a fast ship, even if Han likes to brag about the Falcon.)

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I still think the final duel started off as an inside joke. I can see the story meeting right now...

"Hey, I've got an idea! Lets have a lightsaber fight in a forest! No one has ever done that before!'

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

That fight immediately had me planning an extravagant scene where saplings are being sliced with every swing. Then they started doing that on screen.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

It's really easy to nitpick this movie, but some of the issues being brought up (not just here, but elsewhere) are really trivial. Couple of thoughts below.

avatar wrote:

* So R2D2 had the map the whole time and was just sulking? Didn't anyone know that? And Kylo knew what piece was missing and couldn't figure it was the Jedi Temple?

R2 has the overall galaxy map which allows them to position the smaller map provided by Max Von Sydow. I think the system where Luke was found was uncharted. It's not like it was the Statue of Liberty and they wouldn't need New York to find it - they didn't even know if it was in the States or not (to continue that analogy).

I don't think the graphical puzzle bit at the end is very helpful on selling the logic behind the maps though and that's where the problem comes from. If you didn't have that and it was simply just a map or location, then it would be fine. But I guess they wanted that 'aha moment'.

avatar wrote:

* Is the Falcon a piece of shit or not? They want it both ways. Traders steal it off each other (so it must be in demand) then it sits under tarps collecting rust and is their second choice.

It's "garbage" at the time on Jakku, and it hadn't been flown in years, but that's not to say it didn't have trade value previously. It indicates the passage of time better than an 'as you know' scene.

avatar wrote:

* Why doesn't Chewie fire his bow several times when Han dies? Just one lame shot and a long pause and then turns to stormtroopers. His best mate just died. He should have been hammering Kylo with rapid fire as soon as the saber went through Han. And what's he doing during the whole duel scene? He could've helped them out. Lucky the planet took so long to explode as Poe blew up the thermal oscillator ages ago.

Chewie was surrounded by stormtroopers which were posing a more immediate threat and Kylo was a long way away. He was lucky he even made the shot that he did. He makes a run for the Falcon after he blows the charges and probably isn't even aware that there's a duel going on. Heck, he may not even realise that Kylo is still alive. In terms of storytelling though, what purpose would Chewie serve being there as well? It's a key moment in the arcs of Finn, Rey and Kylo. It would not do anything for Chewie's story that hasn't already been done with his almost suicidal rampage which has him blowing up the base that they're all still inside!

avatar wrote:

* Han seemed to frequent Maz's bar a lot but was unaware Luke's saber was stashed in the basement.

Why would he know what's in Maz's personal quarters or storage room? This seems an unrealistic expectation.

avatar wrote:

* Still not clear if the Empire is the same as the First Order and what the relationship between the Sith and First Order is (is one subordinate to the other?)

The First Order arose from the ashes of the Empire, it says as much in the scrawl. The relationship is presumably subordinate, but who knows at this point. Something to find out more about in the next movie.



edited to add - regarding the score. At first, I thought it wasn't particularly good but with successive viewings and the soundtrack itself, it's actually very good. Much better than any of the prequels stuff. It's possible that the film is so overwhelming at first that you just forget it in light of everything that is going on.

Last edited by redxavier (2015-12-22 22:50:57)

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I don't know, after seeing it three times, I can't remember a single new theme. The music seems pretty forgettable. And this is from a guy who, as a kid, would listen to the Star Wars record on our hifi and watch the movie in my head.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I'd say you should try listening to the soundtrack to this one then. There is some really good stuff there along with the classic themes.

Rey's theme is great and very recognizable once you know what to listen for. Kylo Ren and Finn also got their own solid themes, but not nearly as developed as Rey's.

I do think that JJ's approach doesn't lend itself as well to showcasing the music as George's did. Because the movie doesn't stop to breath as much, the music doesn't feel as integral to the storytelling as it did in the other movies.

I'd definitely say that John Williams delivered. But then again, I'm not one of those crazy people who thinks he's been on autopilot for twenty years. So I would say that  tongue

Last edited by Hansen (2015-12-23 04:29:45)

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

avatar wrote:

Luke got drunk around the bonfire on Endor and knocked someone up.

Well, we'll know, if Rey takes off her top and reveals a luxurious coat of fur.

/yub nub

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Zarban wrote:
avatar wrote:

Luke got drunk around the bonfire on Endor and knocked someone up.

Well, we'll know, if Rey takes off her top and reveals a luxurious coat of fur.

/yub nub

You're sick, there were Rebel pilots and ship crews there. Mon Mothma might've been handy.

...But yeah that was my first thought too tongue "Yub yub, Commander."

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I've been in and out of hospital over the last week but was finally able to watch it yesterday and loved every moment of it.

The best use of Chewbacca of any of the films!

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

BigDamnArtist wrote:
Darth Praxus wrote:

Considering all the other enemies that were decimated by it, Chewie probably assumed Kylo was dead. Plus if he hadn't immediately dealt with the other troopers he and the others would probably have been shot to pieces.

Also, I mean, Wookie psychology is probably not horribly well established, but I imagine he went into shock for a few seconds there having just watched his best friend and partner slaughtered in front of him.

"Let him have it. It's not wise to upset a Wookiee."
"But sir, nobody worries about upsetting a droid."
"That's 'cause droids don't pull people's arms out of their sockets when they lose. Wookiees are known to do that."

I expected Chewbacca to go mental and kill everyone.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Lamer wrote:

I expected Chewbacca to go mental and kill everyone.

I'm not sure what more people were expecting. He shot everyone in sight and then blew the hell out of the place. It's not like he was going to charge all the way down to the bridge to try to tear Ren's arms off. He may have a bloodlust but he's not stupid.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Lamer wrote:

I expected Chewbacca to go mental and kill everyone.

I'm not 100%, but I think that might be racist.

Chewie has repeatedly been established as a thoughtful, and caring guy that loves his friends deeply; and even  ignoring the fact that Han was most likely saying that just fuck with Luke, based on what we know about Chewie he's not really the type of person that's going to fly into a raging fury at the drop of a hat. He'll protect them furiously, and obviously he's a huge presence and incredibly powerful, but he's also just as much of a person as any one else, and is going to feel a loss like that deeply....and THEN fly into a fuck-you rage and blow the entire planet into oblivion if he can.

Which is exactly what he does.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2015-12-23 18:26:19)

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Which brings me to one of my only big issues with character interactions in TFA (I might write a full review some day but I need a second viewing) : they don't acknowledge Chewie's loss. When they get back on the Resistance planet, who comforts Leia? Rey. Who met everyone a few days ago. Chewie just walks by. It really felt wrong to me.

Last edited by Saniss (2015-12-23 18:46:30)

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

There is one shot of Chewie obviously mourning Han in between Leia and Rey comforting each other and Artoo waking up. It's fairly brief, and I too would have liked some interaction between Leia and Chewie, but it's not like there's nothing there.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

BigDamnArtist wrote:
Zarban wrote:

Also, does JJ Abrams not know how maps work? To find the Statue of Liberty, you don't need the part that shows how to get from my house to Pittsburgh.

There is a line in there that hand waves it away. But the hand wavey in and of itself is kinda...."thaaaat's not really how this works JJ". But whatever, Star Wars is full of those.

Yeah, we've seen that JJ doesn't mire himself in little details like this... or like how field promotions work in a quasi-military organization (*cough cough* STAR TREK).

Next summer: JJ Abrams' SUPERHEIST. A ragtag group of con men and thieves steal a fortune in blank credit cards. "Ha ha ha! I've never SEEN so many credit cards! There are thousands for each of us!"

Summer 2017: JJ Abrams' WINDCAR. An eccentric inventor and his beautiful daughter overcome great obstacles to invent a car that runs on wind. "And THIS... this is the key: it has a fan mounted right on it, pointed at the wind turbine so the car MAKES ITS OWN WIND."

Summer 2018: JJ Abrams' VENGEANCE IS MINE. A retired assassin seeks out the thugs who almost--but didn't actually--hurt his family. "There's so little to go on!" "That's because nothing happened! They just drove past us!"

Last edited by Zarban (2015-12-24 19:29:59)

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I loved the first two acts. The third act fizzled fast.
1. Rey going from no force knowledge to controlling a storm trooper and then fighting a powerful dark force user was lame. Even if Ren was wounded and trying to take her alive, it seems he completely forgot he has this ability to freeze people with the force. That would have been smart, obvious, and him not even trying took him from being a powerful but conflicted character to being an IDIOT. I lost all sense of a compelling villain after that fight.

2. They repeated the third act of a new hope and rotj almost point for point: death star, bigger death star, even Bigger death star. Which would have been GREAT if they FAILED. I thought for one minute that this movie would end with the death star 3 being unharmed and the resistance (totally not the rebels) having to run for it and deal with it in the next movies.
Nope.
They win. It ends with a ship flying in through a hole and blowing it up from the inside. After the people on the ground disable the shields from the inside (due to an oddly pushover Phasma).

They could have subverted all expectations by having the good guys fail their primary mission (still saving Rey so it's not a complete downer). But they chose to repeat the old thing almost exactly.

To sum up, JJ made another Star Trek Into Darkness

Witness me!

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I feel like we've covered the duel a lot already, but as for Rey mind tricking the trooper:

I don't think that's at all a stretch because exactly one scene prior we saw Kylo breaking into her mind and her fighting back. We know she's just witnessed someone use the Force to attempt to read a mind and that she's resisted it; it's not a big leap from breaking into minds to suggesting those minds do things. And it's not as if she succeeded at first either, it took three tries.

At the end of the day Luke using the Force to take down the Death Star would seem to come out of nowhere as well, but we all accept that just fine. Not sure why this scenario is any different.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

It just hit me again: the bad guys built a third superweapon with a single weak spot capable of destroying the whole thing.

But that is a good point about the mind control, Praxus

Last edited by Writhyn (2015-12-25 07:29:25)

Witness me!

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I minded Starkiller a whole lot more after the first watch. Upon rewatches, however, it matters less and less to me because it isn't ultimately what the climax is about. What it's about is the characters, Starkiller is just an excuse to get them there. Unlike the ending of the original film, in which the focus is very much the battle itself. In that regard TFA has more in common with the ending of ESB or ROTJ. Is it still a problem? Yes, but not nearly as big as I initially thought.

Not to mention that, while this is still an excuse, it's not wrong either:
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc517/darthpraxus/Mobile%20Uploads/tmp_3583-Screenshot_2015-12-25-01-44-40-1-1531075543_zps9wlq8qye.png

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Maybe we'll get some interesting backstory about Rey in the next film that mitigates it, but for now being able to use the Force with no training is a major break with canon. The prequels make it clear that Jedi normally trained intensively for years before even becoming knights. Luke got some training but more important he got guidance from Obi-Wan's ghost WHILE trying to destroy the Death Star.

It's the difference between being coached on making a souffle while you make the souffle vs spontaneously making a souffle after someone hits you with a souffle pan.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

The prequels also have Anakin using the Force to survive podracing despite being untrained. And Obi-Wan's training for Luke amounts to little more than what Rey had from Maz--a brief lecture in the nature of the Force and its binding effect on life, plus a vague "Stretch out with your feelings!". Plus, again, Rey had just gone through being mind raped by the Force, which while twisted is its own sort of demonstration.

Plus, honestly, screw the prequels in that regard. The Force is magic, and George trying to bind it up with hierarchy and rules and such was one of the worst aspects of those films.

Last edited by Abbie (2015-12-25 07:58:01)

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

We cut away after her first couple attempts to mind control and cut back when she gets it. I like to imagine that there's a whole bunch more failed attempts in the meantime while she figures it out. I just picture the stormtrooper getting more and more confused and pissed off, but unable to really do anything to Rey without risking pissing off Kylo Ren, so he's just kinda cussing her out while she tries to tell him what to do.

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