Topic: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Bringing this back from the grave because Disney is talking about rebooting the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise with the writers of Deadpool and Zombieland.

I am so fucking sick of this shit. Five more Harry Potter movies. Three MCU movies a year. A new installment of Star Wars every year from now til doomsday (and I like the sequels). An ugly, plastic live-action remake of every single animated Disney movie. A PG-13 cut of Deadpool 2 released the same year as the original film. The level of content cannibalism we've hit is just demoralizing. Nothing much original to add, since we've had this conversation countless times, but with Disney officially buying Fox, who were doing the most of any big studio to fund interesting/independent films, it's just gonna get worse and worse. They've paid lip service to the notion of continuing Fox Searchlight's work, but if Disney ever actually funds a movie like The Tree of Life or 12 Years a Slave I'll eat my hat.

Last edited by Abbie (2018-10-24 04:11:11)

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

...and with that, you've not only brought back this thread, but also stirred within me the original inspiration I felt to start that other 'lost' thread, asking if anybody's movie-viewing habits have changed lately... and, thereby, also stirred my compulsion to explain the Giant Stupid Theory Of What Might Be Goin' On With Movies which originally inspired me to post that thread, but which I then never got around to explaining, despite false starts.

So I'm gonna take another few swings at that.

In the meantime, fuck yes. Fuck fuck fuck yes.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Teague wrote:

In the meantime.

neutral

Extended Edition - 141 Doctor Who, Medicine Woman
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Heh — it's definitely a "Teague loosely outlines his thoughts beforehand and then just rants into camera" thing.

But your disappointment fuels me, so that's nice.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Teague wrote:

But your disappointment fuels me, so that's nice.

I was just pointing out that you said something I sometimes say on a podcast, it's like I own it or something wink

Extended Edition - 141 Doctor Who, Medicine Woman
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

I feel ashamed and unfueled.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Ashamed and Unfueled: The Teague Chrystie Story

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Abbie wrote:

A PG-13 cut of Deadpool 2 released the same year as the original film.

Yeah, that has horrified me as well. For it to work, they'll have to make a really good joke of this concept in the movie itself (they'll probably try, after all it's Deadpool).

We all float down here...

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Literally just Deadpool sitting and drinking tea, making incredibly sanitized jokes for 90 minutes. To make the point.

Witness me!

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

I made a joke to my buddy years ago that they were going to put out the movie and then the reboot of that movie after 6 months.   we're on our way.

but at least then we'll get some sort of super meta take on that about a movie that is rebooted within that very movie...some sort of movie singularity.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Oh hey, I'm back, about streaming this time because Filmstruck is being shut down by Warner.

The FilmStruck indie, arthouse and classic film subscription-streaming service will shut down next month, Turner and Warner Bros. Digital Networks announced Friday.

The move appeared to be the latest by WarnerMedia, under AT&T’s ownership, to streamline operations by cutting niche-oriented business ventures. Two sources familiar with the decision said the plan to kill FilmStruck was made prior to AT&T’s closing the Time Warner deal; in any case, the strategy aligns with the new WarnerMedia blueprint to shift resources to mass-market entertainment services.

[. . .]

In a statement, Turner and WB Digital Networks said, “We’re incredibly proud of the creativity and innovations produced by the talented and dedicated teams who worked on FilmStruck over the past two years. While FilmStruck has a very loyal fanbase, it remains largely a niche service. We plan to take key learnings from FilmStruck to help shape future business decisions in the direct-to-consumer space and redirect this investment back into our collective portfolios.” [Emphasis mine.]

Our cultural heritage is being held hostage by people who will gladly let it fall by the wayside to save a few dollars.

The most frustrating thing about this is Netflix could take the budget for ONE SHOW out of the hundreds they produce and use it to expose so many classic movies to modern audiences, but they just don't give a damn. There's less than 20 movies on there from before 1980 at any given time, and meanwhile they're choking everyone's feeds with gallons and gallons of medicore–terrible content. I used to collect physical media just because I preferred the feel of it, but at this point I'm also doing so out of the knowledge that the arbiters of our artistic past all too often just don't give a shit about it.

Last edited by Abbie (2018-10-26 20:06:02)

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

My violent agreement with your point pushed me out of my procrastination, so, fine: here's some dumb-ass shit.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

YESSSSS (required lc letters here)

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Thoughts tomorrow, but for now: Holy god those last ten minutes are some horrifying shit, Chrystie.

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Yessir.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

You on a quest to become a Moby lookalike, Chrystie?

Also, what you said. All the fuck thumbs over here.

Sébastien Fraud
Facebook | Twitter | 500px
"We're gonna build a great green screen, and make the traditional matte painters pay for it"
Saniss for President 2016 - "Make VFX great again"

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Saniss wrote:

All the fuck thumbs over here.

*like*

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Holy shit, Teague.

I've had a few similar thoughts myself, but never really connected the dots and looked at it this way. I have a feeling I'm gonna be mulling over a lot of what you've said for quite some time

(btw this really made me realise how much I miss the podcast)

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

^^ I feel the same way. I could totally see it being a discussion topic on The Intermission.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Phyew. I was half-convinced I'd just lost my mind, so I'm glad you guys are digging it.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

I... feel bad that I couldn't get through it, I got lost after about fifteen minutes. I must be part of the problem sad Will attempt to give it another go, or download the audio and throw it on my phone for a longer drive maybe.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

Art optimization seems to be present in every aspect of entertainment and I definitely feel the fatigue. In the movie world, I used to enjoy superhero movies in the early 2000's. The genre at the time wasn't new, but studios hadn't systematically gotten those movies down to a cold formula. And so things still felt fresh. Now I feel the fatigue of similar types of "charming" characters, similar pacing, similar editing, and similar color grading.

I bet no one here watches the show Survivor (that show is still on?), but I've been watching for nearly two decades. I still enjoy the show but even a reality show is not immune to optimization. There are certain elements of the game that have evolved seemingly to keep the audience more superficially entertained. There was a hidden immunity idol that made for a thrilling moment last season? Let's put in more of them! Let's throw in multiple hidden advantages! Let's swap the tribes multiple times! Let's do everything we can to create surface-level excitement at the expense of conveying a real and genuine experience. I still enjoy the show though because the social dynamics are fascinating enough despite the "optimized" nature of everything else.

This is even true of movie documentaries. Remember "The Beginning", a documentary on the DVD of The Phantom Menace? It was so raw and so fresh. Then, as the prequel movies went on, these documentaries became edited with more and more intention. By the time we got to The Force Awakens, one might get the feeling that everything was great & everybody got along fantastically while making that movie (even though we know that's not the case). Although here, the optimization is not so much about the dopamine, but rather about the most efficient way to use the documentaries as propaganda.

Hell, even YouTube is not immune to this. The most successful YouTubers nowadays have gotten things down to a formula. They'll be talking to the camera with quick cuts as they move from topic to topic. They'll have someone off camera that they have "banter" with to give the appearance of authenticity. They'll insert multiple "calls to action" in their videos (remember to subscribe......hit that subscribe button......rate, comment, and subscribe if you like this video....etc.).

In general, things seem much more fresh and natural when they're just starting out. But it doesn't take long before companies or creators start to embark on that path of "optimization". It's not always bad though. But past a certain threshold (which is different from person to person), it becomes noticeable, tiring, and......unappealing.

Boter wrote:

I... feel bad that I couldn't get through it, I got lost after about fifteen minutes. I must be part of the problem sad Will attempt to give it another go, or download the audio and throw it on my phone for a longer drive maybe.

Personally, I'm not all that knowledgeable about music theory or music history, so some parts of that got a little confusing for me. But the main point was still very fascinating. I think he might need to get an editor to tighten up his videos to allow for better audience retention in the future......I kid! Un-optimized Teague is lots of fun to listen to haha. (It sort of reminds me of when everyone used to talk over each other on the early DIF commentaries. It felt so real and raw! Then it became more optimized over time as they realized how things are "supposed to be". There's no escaping optimization. Even when it's not an intentionally calculated move, it still ends up happening.)

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Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

theMaestro wrote:

Hell, even YouTube is not immune to this. The most successful YouTubers nowadays have gotten things down to a formula.

Youtubes actually a really bizarre example, because while the old school systems were just trying to optimize for what got people in the door, full stop. Youtubers have this whole other layer now, where they have to optimize for the algorithm. They're trying to figure out what is the best way to stay in the light of the algorithm, and sure part of that is just getting eyes on content, but it's also getting people to interact in comments, motivating people enough to actually subscribe, getting people to hit the bell so they can be notified when a video goes live because maybe sometimes it's hard to know if youtube is actually sending out the notifications to subscription boxes, and mostly producing enough content at a fast enough rate that the algorithm doesn't forget about them but still producing high enough quality that they don't lose the audience.

It's like the entire phenomenon of film and music Teague was talking about, condensed into this little hyperspeed simulation bubble. Either you figure out what works and keep riding that wave until you burn out, or you fall off your board and tread water with whatever audience you managed to build up, and that can all happen in like, a year. It's crazy.

EDIT:

And oh yeah... about the actual thing. I've had pretty much the same opinion that the studio-system-movie was a dying breed for a while now, at the rate budgets keep increasing and the increasing rise of streaming platforms and people looking elsewhere for content (Youtube), it's only a matter of time until it can't sustain itself, and either the system falls back to the more-lower-budget-projects or the entire thing collapses under it's own weight and Netflix swoops in to pick up the power vacuum.

I've pretty much just stopped caring about almost everything coming out of the big studios, partly cause I just don't have the time or the money to bother, and partly because there are so many more interesting things happening in smaller indie levels (Youtube, podcasts, web series stuff). And honestly, my life has gotten so much better since I did. Let them fall, there's more than enough other stuff out there, something else will fill the pop culture void, just like something else was there before, and just like something else will be there in 50 years.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

RE: Big-studio-movie. Same thing with big-studio-video games. Though I don't know how much that's due to optimization (this year's Call of Duty didn't have single player, but it did have a battle royale mode!) and budgets just getting untenable. Shamus Young made a point when talking about the evolution of Bioware (in the context of the Mass Effect series) that the early 2000s seemed to be a good mix of creators able to make art with the time and money needed to do so vs. huge teams needing to be able to have the latest graphics and physics, all with aggressive deadlines and budgets. As a result, I haven't been interested in any AAA titles this year, but I keep playing stuff by indie developers (Bendy and the Ink Machine) and midsize developers (American Truck Sim, Stellaris) that don't have conglomerate publishers - the studios, by way of comparison - holding things (optimization?) over them.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: Thread for being deeply, non-fatalistically worn out about something

theMaestro wrote:

I think he might need to get an editor to tighten up his videos to allow for better audience retention in the future......I kid! Un-optimized Teague is lots of fun to listen to haha.

1) I do think this argument could be effectively made in less time than I took to make it — especially with editing.

2) So, sorry.

3) Hey, I told you the previous ramblings were two hours long!

4) I'm pretty sure "ugh, I really need to plan / edit this better" was the reason it kept never-getting-done before.

5) So.

6) Six.

7) fwiw, Boter, I actually name-check you at one point, regarding marches. Not worth looking forward to, but.

8) If y'all have thoughts that'll help me develop this bullshit further, definitely share them. Stuff that seems totally superfluous to the argument (in which case I failed to clarify why I think it's relevant, which... almost certainly happened repeatedly, because improvised argument), or stuff that seems especially convincing, etc.. I'm quite happy, but not totally surprised, that folks seem to agree with the general givens I'm talkin' about; what I was mostly curious about was how far from the pack I've strayed in terms of the specifics.

Anyway, sorry for being rambly, and thanks for spending any time with it at all.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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