Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Looks like The Last Jedi is gonna be the first Star Wars 4K Blu-ray - Zavvi.com is already taking pre-orders.

We all float down here...

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Saw it. I liked it more than 7.
I agree that the plot felt messy, the first half being hard to focus through. The casino planet sequence was hard because, frankly, it felt like they were trying to make a thing about animal abuse while people were dying in the fleet. I get that it was thematically a point about the kids rather than the animals (kids theme was cool BTW), but it felt weird.
And was anybody else wondering why the long-distance shots at the fleeing cruiser were flying in an arc?

The second half was mostly awesome and the several character twists and turns did keep me pretty tense. Overall, I liked it, and aside from the plot messiness I really liked the different vibes from previous movies. Plus, it fixed a couple of problems I had with 7 by hanging a lantern retroactively in a sensible way.

Good themes, good character stuff, Hamill killed it with his performance, and finally, like others have said,

Why bother with weapons when you can throw a ship at your enemies? Why didn't they empty one of the earlier ships before it ran out of fuel and jump it into the enemy fleet??? But lordy, lordy, lordy, that shot sequence was almost the coolest thing I've ever seen. And everything was silent during! So goooood!


And Teague owes me $20 wink

Witness me!

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Oh and when Luke completely subverted the grandiosity of the scene from TFA's end by tossing the saber...that was sooooooo good.

Witness me!

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

I feel mostly positive. Glad to see John Williams is absolutely at his A-game, and that he scored it entirely to picture (really made it feel more like a Star Wars film than TFA, which had quite a lot of suites and music edits).

Biggest issue for me was pacing, but that's an issue with literally every Hollywood I've seen for the past 5 years...and also the inclusion of Rose. As genuinely happy as it makes me to see a Chinese woman with a big part in a Star Wars movie, I feel that her and Finn's story would've been better with Poe and Finn (would've been nice to see the buddy-buddy thing actually in action, and letting Finn take the lead at the end would've nicely cleaned up his and Poe's thematic arcs). Plus, I like the idea of making a nameless Rebel soldier (her sister) dying a big deal to really underline the fact that loads and loads of people die all the time without being a hero or being worshipped (would've worked nicely with the rest of the film's themes), which is what I thought they were doing at the beginning of the movie.

And shit, this movie is meta. On several levels. I'm not really willing to type it all out (and if you didn't catch it...well, I'm not sure how you couldn't), bottom line really being "stop worshipping shit," which man, many many people need to hear that.

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

(also, how about that Ryan vs Dorkman moment in the throne room? Yay!)

Witness me!

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Writhyn wrote:

(also, how about that Ryan vs Dorkman moment in the throne room? Yay!)

Hmm, I wonder if that was actually an intentional thing. The Praetorian Guards they're fighting are wielding weapons from Bloodborne so Rian will definitely reference things he finds cool.

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Alex wrote:

And shit, this movie is meta. On several levels. I'm not really willing to type it all out (and if you didn't catch it...well, I'm not sure how you couldn't), bottom line really being "stop worshipping shit," which man, many many people need to hear that.

(UTC-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada)

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

I'll just leave this here...

  Show
Breasticle Milk

Hurroo

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Regan wrote:

I'll just leave this here...

  Show
Breasticle Milk


Cool throwback to A New Hope, btw (blue milk anyone?). That and the setting suns at the end show a nostalgia in him, a link to his youth when things were simpler - not necessarily happier, because all he wanted was to leave Tatooine, but a time when he hadn't failed yet. And I guess this final vision of him is the peace he's found, righting his wrongs.

Last edited by Saniss (2017-12-20 16:31:08)

Sébastien Fraud - Compositing Artist / Currently VFX Supervisor at TRIARII Prod, France.
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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

I'm still sort of trying to piece together how I feel, but in general, I left the theatre with an overwhelming sense of meh, and it hasn't really gotten better since then.

Chaotic in all the wrong ways, there weren't really "scenes" so much as characters exchanging 1-3 lines that didn't really do or say much, before cutting away to something else. The unfortunate "every character is a comedic releif" thing of the Disney Star Wars' worsens, BB-8 exists solely to a derp whenever ever at all possible, Finn is just...Fucking Finn.... "Okay, we're on a secret mission to recruit the ONE GUY in the galaxy who can help us, and he's a suave high society mother fucker in a central planet casino, what should we do?" *WILD FUCKING FLAILING AND SCREAMING THROUGH THE HALLS.*

There was the opportunity for a REALLY REALLY fucking cool James Bond-y sequence in this cool new central planet location we haven't seen in the new Star Wars yet (Outside the 5 seconds we saw before the rebulic gone gone the fuck up), but instead it was just wild flailing, and going out of their way to be idiots (Seriously, Rose is supposed to be VERY familiar with this sort of place, and maybe, just maybe not illegally parking their ship on a public beach 5 meters away from the casino was too strange a concept?)

But yeah, mostly I just keep coming back to how chaotic this movie is, and granted this is a problem of most blockbusters these days, but it's utterly TERRIFIED of any sort of real intimate moments. The closest it gets it with Luke and Leia at the end, but even that's 3 lines and the movie just peels out going "NOPE NOPE NOT COMFORTABLE GOTTA BLOW SOMETHING UP." I'm very seriously considering going through and breaking down Force Awakens or TLJ and one of the OT just to see how massively different the pacing and gag placement is.

(I do agree Force Awakens is WAY better pacing wise, even though it still had... a lot... a LOT of other issues.)

Also last thing for right now, FUCK HOLDO. Seriously fuck this woman. "So you're plan is to purposefully withhold information from the pilot you know is twitchy and prone to rash moves on the basis of....what? Teaching him a lesson?... It's my ship so you'll do what I say because I say it?....well congrats, you didn't tell him the plan (Whish she definitely already told the entire bridge crew because they were already enacting it), he did exactly what you knew he would, knowing it might fail, and got the majority of the LAST REBELS IN THE GALAXY wiped out of the sky. Good fucking job woman, no I'm not going to feel sorry for you sacrificing yourself, if that's your idea of leadership the rebels are better off without you. Seriously Poe waking up and Leia being there to go "Here's the plan" "OH SHIT THAT'S GENIUS, THIS'LL TOTALLY WORK." was just the ultimate insult.

UGH.

Anyways, good things. I do like the concept of the direction they went with Luke. A man so completely broken by his own failure and dark impulses that he just shut down is fantastic. The finer points of all that got lost in the chaos unfortunately.

The whole Rey/Kylo force linked scenes were a really really damn cool concept, I was not expecting that in any way. Killed me just a little bit inside that it was Snoke doing it and not the force itself, there was a really really cool concept to play with there for a minute.

The new dark side cave was cool as hell. The Porgs were very cute until they just became more slap stick fodder overused and placed in all the wrong moments. (Seriously you guys, these movies are just tension killing machines... ooooh a little too many emotions there gotta throw a Porg at the window*)

That shot of the Cruiser going to lightspeed through the First Order fleet was stunning beyond anything I thought these movies were capable of. Bra-godsdamned-oh to the team behind that one, dropping out all of sound was just brilliant.

I'm sure there's other stuff I liked but it's all just clouded in the noise right now... but yeah, fuck Holdo**, Finn is an idiot, and these movies really need to figure out their emotional issues.

*I would like to formally request adding Throwing A Porg At The Window to be entered into the Difctionary

**Laura Dern is amazing, and I love the concept of the character, but the fact she was used purely to make the idiotic choice that would give them the initial domino falling to start the chain reaction of the rest of the movie and a reason to kill off most of the rebel force is just aggravating.

EDIT: These movies also need to get better at naming thier characters...does ANYONE actually know what Benicio Del Toro's character is called? Or is he just "Random Convenient Plot Movement Device #68™"?

ZangrethorDigital.ca
youtube.com/bigdamnartist

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

I'm not that into Star Wars anymore so I didn't have an agenda going in other than to be entertained. Which I was almost all the time, so, it's a win.

Star Wars has always been at its worst when Jedi are discussing Jedi bullshit, so the greatest achievement of TLJ is they're talking very new and different Jedi bullshit for a change.  I actually stayed interested during the obligatory "now let's sit in on a meeting at the Vatican" scenes for the first time in eight movies.  Because when you tell me the Pope now lives on an island because he decided Catholicism was such a bad idea he once tried to kill some priests... well, you have my attention.  Finally we're back to what Jedi used to be - crazy hermits your uncle will warn you to stay the fuck away from.  Turns out the Force isn't magical space karma, it's meth. So of course I loved that.

Everything else, mostly thumbs up.  I gather there's some controversy about tracking ships in hyperspace but I do not care because hyperspace is pretend.  What did bother me was the uber-conceit of having an ongoing space chase/battle that you can take a break from to do a side quest when you want to.  Not that that couldn't work, but I thought it coulda been staged differently so it didn't seem so odd.   Why can't the bad guys blow up the good guys - they're RIGHT FRICKIN' THERE IN FRONT OF THEM.  Jesus, the French ship in Master and Commander was farther away than that.

But there was a lot that I liked, especially when things went in unexpected directions.  Didn't expect Snoke to leave so soon. Didn't expect Rey and Dark Nose to team up - I would have loved it even more if they had stayed teamed up.  Loved that Rey's parentage turned out to be a total airball.  Loved that Luke had issues.  Loved that Yoda showed up to say, yeah, let's burn this fucker down.  (And was a puppet again!)

So of the latest round of Star Wars flicks thus far: Force Awakens was okay I guess, I don't really remember it now and Rogue One was painful and I nearly walked out of it, but I did like that they all died.  Among that crowd, TLJ is easily the frontrunner for me.

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

I agree with a lot of what Trey said. I also want to address some things BDA said.

BigDamnArtist wrote:

The unfortunate "every character is a comedic releif" thing of the Disney Star Wars' worsens, BB-8 exists solely to a derp whenever ever at all possible, Finn is just...Fucking Finn.... "Okay, we're on a secret mission to recruit the ONE GUY in the galaxy who can help us, and he's a suave high society mother fucker in a central planet casino, what should we do?" *WILD FUCKING FLAILING AND SCREAMING THROUGH THE HALLS.*

Because of the pressure of the chase scene, they can't really have moments to allow people to just sit back and relax, so they try to help regulate the tension with the humor. It ends up feeling forced because it is forced, and is definitely a problem. A lot of what happens on the casino planet plays to this, and it is definitely the weakest portion of the movie.

BigDamnArtist wrote:

(I do agree Force Awakens is WAY better pacing wise, even though it still had... a lot... a LOT of other issues.)

TFA has really fucked up pacing in its own, different way. While I do agree TLJ's pacing better, I wouldn't call it way better.

BigDamnArtist wrote:

Also last thing for right now, FUCK HOLDO. Seriously fuck this woman. "So you're plan is to purposefully withhold information from the pilot you know is twitchy and prone to rash moves on the basis of....what? Teaching him a lesson?... It's my ship so you'll do what I say because I say it?....well congrats, you didn't tell him the plan (Whish she definitely already told the entire bridge crew because they were already enacting it), he did exactly what you knew he would, knowing it might fail, and got the majority of the LAST REBELS IN THE GALAXY wiped out of the sky. Good fucking job woman, no I'm not going to feel sorry for you sacrificing yourself, if that's your idea of leadership the rebels are better off without you. Seriously Poe waking up and Leia being there to go "Here's the plan" "OH SHIT THAT'S GENIUS, THIS'LL TOTALLY WORK." was just the ultimate insult.

I figured she didn't actually have a plan yet the first time he confronted her, and when when they did have a plan they wanted to keep it under wraps for as long as possible because they don't know if there's a spy on board (which is a reasonable suspicion given that they were just tracked through hyperspace). The second time Poe makes a scene and accuses her of treason before she can say much of anything. It's a weak point, but I don't think it's a full on plot hole.

"ShadowDuelist is a god."
        -Teague Chrystie

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

ShadowDuelist wrote:

TFA has really fucked up pacing in its own, different way. While I do agree TLJ's pacing better, I wouldn't call it way better.

That's fair, I was just thinking in terms of actually letting the movie sit for a second to breathe and let us actually feel something.

ShadowDuelist wrote:

I figured she didn't actually have a plan yet the first time he confronted her, and when when they did have a plan they wanted to keep it under wraps for as long as possible because they don't know if there's a spy on board (which is a reasonable suspicion given that they were just tracked through hyperspace). The second time Poe makes a scene and accuses her of treason before she can say much of anything. It's a weak point, but I don't think it's a full on plot hole.

I'll need to see it again to double check the timing of things. But I still don't buy her with holding info from Poe because there might be a spy on board (Which is a fantastic idea they decided not to do anything with), her first real interaction with Poe is to basically go "Hah, you're an idiot and I hate you, didn't Leia demote you? She hated you to." and then every move from there is just purposefully not telling Poe anything, which okay...Poe has been one of Leia's most trusted pilots, missteps in judgement aside, far as I know there is zero reason for her to be paranoid of him being a spy. Which hell, if they went that route that would have been something at least. Holdo takes over, is super paranoid about a spy on board and refuses to tell the crew anything, so Poe steps up and launches a mutiny and his plan. But instead it's "I'm not going to tell you anything." *Poe goes and gets most of the rebels blown up* "You know, I like that boy." I- guh- wha?! ....Holdo needs her pills back guys.

ZangrethorDigital.ca
youtube.com/bigdamnartist

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Seriously, they could have simplified the Poe/Holdo subplot by half and it would've been far better. Too many twists and turns for zero reason or payoff. Same with the Casino subplot.

Also, I actually think TFA and TLJ have equally bad pacing. They have the same issue, and it's what BDA said: no time to feel anything. Remember how they didn't really do anything with the emotional impact of Han's death?

But like I said, that's not just Star Wars -- that's nearly every movie I see now, and it drives me up the fucking wall. Same with the forced/terrible attempts at humor that rely mostly on the fact that the we know that the movie is trying to be funny so the movie kind of talks at us about it, like, 'how weird is this that we're being funny right now, right?,' rather than making any actual sort of joke. That shit is an epidemic in the current era of movies, and I find it as grating as I do baffling.

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Alex wrote:

But like I said, that's not just Star Wars -- that's nearly every movie I see now, and it drives me up the fucking wall. Same with the forced/terrible attempts at humor that rely mostly on the fact that the we know that the movie is trying to be funny so the movie kind of talks at us about it, like, 'how weird is this that we're being funny right now, right?,' rather than making any actual sort of joke. That shit is an epidemic in the current era of movies, and I find it as grating as I do baffling.

Yeah, this. It was about the time the movie interrupted what was otherwise a really cool interesting character scene with a joke about shirtless Kylo Ren that I was pretty much just done with the attempts at comedy.

ZangrethorDigital.ca
youtube.com/bigdamnartist

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Trey wrote:

So of the latest round of Star Wars flicks thus far: Force Awakens was okay I guess, I don't really remember it now and Rogue One was painful and I nearly walked out of it, but I did like that they all died.  Among that crowd, TLJ is easily the frontrunner for me.

And this is why I enjoy Trey.

Also, I saw this-discuss

https://i.imgur.com/jIrPhAK.jpg

God loves you!

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

I very much enjoyed it as a film, though I felt it was overlong, and kind of riddled with puzzling choices.

I think when the furry penguin things popped up they might as well have just put up a lower third with the character name and a price tag. Same with the frog monk things that sweep up Luke's squatter pad. As for him milking that thing and then drinking it...the movie collapses in upon itself without that scene!

I took it as a personal shot at Trey that Luke apparently STILL can't use the force enough to recover his Xwing from underwater. 

Zero issues with Leia in space using the force like that...

I liked Luke's sendoff...I can see Hamil's disappointment with the direction they took his character in, and applaud him for doing a great job even though he disagreed with it.

The casino sidequest is problematic in a half dozen ways I think, because the overall plot for the Rebellion 2.0 was...it's kind of dumb in concept and execution but this is a character-driven film so...not a big deal.

Overall I think it's an impressively good film with for having such a bad plot...the fact that I was able to enjoy it despite it having so many flaws possibly means I'm growing as a person.

Yoda destroying a Jedi temple and holy manuscripts with force lightning mean's he's obviously turned to the Darkside post-mortem, right, or maybe he was just wasted.

The empire should really get in the habit of parking closer to the people it wants to murder or kidnap.

--
One Time @ Bland Camp...

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Jdubs wrote:

The empire should really get in the habit of parking closer to the people it wants to murder or kidnap.

Not to worry, they had a battering ram cannon handy, for just this sort of thing tongue

Tomahawk Ellingsen

www.extendededition.net

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Related to the discussion about John Williams and scoring to picture way back in the TFA thread: regardless of the quality of TLJ, it fucking sucks that the movie-making process is getting reduced to this. From an article about Ben Burtt getting shut out of the most recent Star Wars movies:

Burtt worked on the sound design for this year’s animated Star Wars micro-series Forces of Destiny, plus a Star Wars video game that has since been suspended. But after contributing sound design on The Force Awakens, Burtt did not work on last year's Rogue One or The Last Jedi, the first Star Wars films to be made without Burtt's direct involvement. “On The Force Awakens we had veterans from previous Star Wars films work with the new generation of talent and in many cases the new talent then took the baton and ran with it on The Last Jedi,” a Skywalker Sound representative said in a statement. “Ben will always be a treasure at Lucasfilm but we also want to give the new generation of talent an opportunity to shine as well.”

Early on in my conversation with Burtt, we're interrupted by a mechanical rattle emanating from something on his desk. Nice sound, I say. “Those are my rejected sounds for BB-8,” says Burtt, referring to the painfully adorable spherical droid who rolled into the hearts of audiences in The Force Awakens. “I use them as ringtones.”

[. . .]

Burtt tends to speak about his career in past tense. At the moment, he’s developing a documentary on movie sound-design history, and a documentary on his other love, the space program. He’s also “looking for feature-film work, but nothing’s come my way.”

Cinematic tastes have evolved: today’s frenetic blockbusters, he says, have little need for his meticulously orchestrated sound design. But mostly, there’s no patience—and no allocation in production budgets—for his preferred mode of peripatetic sound-searching and experimentation.

“I don’t see that happening at all today. Not just with Star Wars, but in general,” he says. Burtt’s original Star Wars sound-collecting was so comprehensive, it turns out, that he may have contributed to his own redundancy. “They know there are big libraries”—created in part by Burtt—“that people can just click and drag things out of and make a lot of noise.”

First contacted in 2015 about a story on Burtt, Disney ultimately declined to assist in arrangements for this interview. I asked Burtt himself if there’s bad blood between them since his work on The Force Awakens.

“I don’t know if there’s bad blood,” he answered. “Nobody . . . I was just never consulted or hired to do any of them. No one’s ever told me why. No, I was told—on the new regime, I was just told, ‘Just stay in your room and make sounds and just send stuff to us. We’ll decide what to do.’” It was a change in philosophy that, Burtt thought, would “doom the whole process.”

It was a considerable demotion as well. Burtt was deeply involved in Lucas’s prequel trilogy, working as an editor and second-unit director in addition to his usual role in the sound department. “I had a lot of influence on all that,” he said. “It wasn’t always easy working with George, but at least it was one voice. And you could get his attention and have your say and present something and get a yes or a no. But it was just one person you had to get past. Not banks of different people who want to have a say.”

Burtt has a model plane, a Nieuport fighter aircraft, dangling from the ceiling; there’s a miniature cutout of Force Awakens director J.J. Abrams standing in it, waving anachronistically from the cockpit. “Matt [Wood] put that there to torment me. I came in one day and he’s flying my plane.” Burtt laughed. “Anyways. That’s reality.” He also explained his decision not to use any Star Wars footage in a sound-design class he taught earlier in the year: “Then I’d have to deal with Disney.”

[. . .]

With the extra time on his hands, Burtt is now at work trying to persuade the decision-makers at Skywalker Sound to turn his accumulation of physical artifacts and curiosities into a museum.

“You know that line in Indiana Jones, ‘It belongs in a museum’?” he says. “That’s me. I’m a museum piece.”

Last edited by DarthPraxus (2017-12-26 04:52:07)

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

I actually heard that Ben Burtt had a huge falling out with JJ on The Force Awakens.

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Context-ignorant proclamations are very unwise — and, reflexively, I'll spend the rest of my life siding with Burtt.

*signature, date*

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Bit of a long watch but worth it, Colville lays out some really great dissection of the OT and how that is both affected by and affecting the Disney Star Wars'. I also agree with pretty much everything he says in this fwiw.

ZangrethorDigital.ca
youtube.com/bigdamnartist

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Just saw it a second time, and I have to say, basically all of my issues disappeared this time around -- including, surprisingly, my issues with pacing and the humour. I definitely got what Disney is trying to do here. It all just sort of fell into place, and the pacing felt right, and the humor worked,* and the story felt altogether tighter.

*One important factor with the humor is that the theater I was in was basically empty (due to a snow storm). The humor definitely plays much better when the rest of the audience isn't laughing (because I'm not -- at most I chuckle internally). Instead, a lot of it feels like genuine character moments as opposed to forced attempts humor. Definitely wouldn't have called that, to be honest.

I'm finding myself wanting to go back and watch TFA, and am feeling these movies fit better into the overarching story with the OT. I'm slightly stunned.

My ranking is still the same (best since Empire), and my script suggestions still stand (1. Get rid of Phasma, she's pointless and adds an unnecessary, slightly exhausting battle that steals thunder from the final one; 2. Either kill Leia off straight away in the bridge attack and let Ben live with the guilt of almost killing his mother, or let Leia not be written out of the script and take Laura Dern's place, sacrificing herself to save the Rebellion...either of these is more thematically rich; and 3. replace Rose with Poe on the Canto Bight adventure), though the fact that what we have could potentially be improved really didn't bother me at all -- what's there works for me.

Oh, and Benicio still chewed through so much scenery, I'm surprised there were any ships left to blow up. That man is just a joy to watch.

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

God I cannot wait to watch this movie again.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Have to agree, movie feels much smoother on a second watch. The pacing somehow feels way better when you know exactly where you are in the story. Some of the jokes still don't quite land, and I found myself tuning out a bit during Canto Bight, but man do I like this movie. RotJ's nostalgia factor has it edging out this movie in my rankings for now, but that could change in the future.

Also, I have this amusing re-cut in my head where after the scene of the alien complaining about their illegal beach parking it just hard cuts to Finn and Rose in jail, and it's up to us to assume what happened in between. But given how mad some people are that we didn't learn every little detail about Snoke, I don't think that'd go over well.

"ShadowDuelist is a god."
        -Teague Chrystie

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