Squiggly_P wrote:

Tune in next year to find out!

Given the high expectations for a new Alien movie, Prometheus was a disappointment. But for the Blade Runner sequel, now that we've got stung once with Ridley Scott, we're all going to dial our expectations way way way down, like with Attack of the Clones. If the Prometheus sequels and Blade Runner sequels aren't a complete steaming pile of shit, it'll be a triumph. It's hard to judge a movie objectively if there's so much history with previous instalments.

Matt Vayda wrote:

Great post avatar, thanks for that.

No probs. Who's going to volunteer to watch the 3h:40m making-of documentary (The Furious Gods) & another 1 hour+ enhancement pods on Prometheus and report back?  big_smile Five hours of Scott telling you how cool his "vision" is and all the actors/crew blowing sunshine up each other.

bullet3 wrote:

I dunno though, it might be more of just a personality thing on his part. I get the feeling he's always just kind of been that way, hence all the on-set conflicts on things like Blade Runner back in the day.
I don't sense a not giving-a-fuck vibe from him on this movie, maybe not giving-a-fuck on the story level, but his taste and sensibilities are all over the production design choices on this movie. And from interviews it sounded like he genuinely had a great time making it.

It's definitely not a case of someone just coasting for the paycheck, like McTiernan on Rollerball or John Woo on Paycheck.

There's no question that Ridley Scott movies are a triumph of production design... Duellists, Alien, Blade Runner, Legend, Black Rain, Gladiator, Black Hawk Down, Kingdom of Heaven, and Prometheus. No issues with him there. But he's not known for being an actor's director. The style-over-substance accusation has been levelled at him more than once. Have a listen to the Prometheus commentary - he's very smug and doesn't at all appear thoughtful when it comes to the story. More of a box-ticker. Personally I  think the problem is just (1) RS is now an old man with less patience, energy or enthusiasm than before (2) having past success causes him to feel entitled not to have his judgements questioned.

He'll be close to 80 when the sequels to Blade Runner or Prometheus come out. How many octogenarians make cool movies? Scott should look at Weyland: "A King's reign comes to an end, it is inevitable"

954

(51 replies, posted in Episodes)

I'd like to reiterate the opening comments about the BIG difference between seeing scary movies in a cinema (on an immersive screen with surround sound) versus in the comfort of your lounge room with distractions.

It's like two different movies. You can have a great experience in the cinema and then you recommend it to someone who watches it on their 22" monitor while texting and eating and listening to it on laptop speakers, and they don't know what you're talking about. That was lame, bro. No, how you watched it was lame.

Invid wrote:

Don't see why that's bizarre. Who's going to know more about your life, you, who has stuff to do, or a stalker who has memorized your entire family tree and what you had for dinner for the past eight years?

I know extreme fandom can get dysfunctional, but still, wouldn't it freak you out if you met someone who knows your life better than you do?

But that's a separate issue to, say, George Lucas referring to a lightsaber as a 'laser sword'. Are we 'stalkers with no lives' for laughing at, or correcting, or being disappointed at Lucas for not knowing/caring about his own creation?

redxavier wrote:

I believe the greater problem from this subplot stems from the fact that David demonstrates absolutely no further interest in the experiment, nor in the baby that's created in Shaw's womb as a result.

Actually the writers address this point. As soon as David found the sleeping Engineer, the 'former lines of enquiry' were abandoned. But you're right - that fact that none of this is spelled out and you have to piece it together from commentaries, deleted scenes, and interviews is evidence enough what a cluster-fuck the movie is.

It is bizarre when the creator of something seems to know less or care less than the fans. I remember watching a quizz show where the topic was the career of Alice Cooper. One of the contestants was an Alice Cooper fan, and the other contestant was... Alice Cooper. And the fan did better.

The trailer for the PROMETHEUS Blu-Ray declared 'Questions will be answered'...

I've now had an opportunity to listen to both Ridley Scott's and the screenwriter's commentaries, and here's a summary. I've also seen the deleted/alternative scenes which also add a bit more detail.

1. Jon Spaihts and Damon Lindelhof recorded their commentaries separately and before the movie even premièred. The comments were merged together to form one audio track. Lindelhof is used to being hated (after Lost) and anticipated the abuse in his self-deprecating way. Nevertheless he likes adding mystery. Both acknowledged potential problems and both had issues with the final theatrical release (e.g. whistle password, rapid growth of the fetus, etc). Both writers (& director) seemed scientifically illiterate - whenever they talk about biology or astronomy, they make serious blunders.

2. Ridley Scott delivers a laconic 'phoned-in' commentary - half of which is just describing the bleeding obvious. For the rest of the time, he's being satisfied how well everything turned out. Not once does he acknowledge any problems. In fact, in an eye-opening section between 31min and 33min, he says that anyone who questions his judgement can fuck off - they must be either inexperienced or stupid. He's got 3 movies in the Library of Congress, therefore he's earned the right to be surrounded by 'yes men'. For him, the movie is perfect. But there's no indication that he's into the story or even the genre. It's just a job he does. He repeatedly states how pleased he is in knocking out the movie in 82 days because he doesn't bother with rehearsals, etc. (I wonder if he got a bonus in keeping the movie to 2 hours as he eagerly dispensed with many interesting scenes the writers came up with.)

3. Why did David spike Holloway's drink? Because Weyland implored (from his dream-state) 'try harder' to find a cure for mortality. After Holloway admitted he'd do anything to find answers, David had carte blanche to use him as a guinea pig. (The second law of robotics obviously doesn't apply). David didn't know what the goo would do, nor was there an ulterior corporate motive. (No, it doesn't make any sense why the robot would potentially infect the entire crew simply to see if the goo made you live forever. Ever heard of a lab rat?)

4. Why did the Engineer go 'aaaaaah' and rip off David's head? According to Ridley, he was offended at being addressed by a synthetic being. According to the screenwriters, he was offended at being woken up and addressed by 'chimpanzees' (i.e. us). (yeah, real god-like).

5. Why did the Engineer not talk? In a longer deleted scene, he did talk. But it was felt during editing that speaking removed his god-like aura. Apparently making him go 'aaaaaaah' and act like a WWF wrestler is more god-like. Idiots.

6. Where do the Engineers come from? Paradise. (does that clear things up?)

7. Why did they change their mind in respect to Earth? No one knows. (No one attempted to speculate what threat iron age humans have to any thing else in the universe).  If the intention was always to use Earth as a weapons testing ground, then why graffiti our caves?

8. When was the opening sequence set? According to Ridley Scott, 10 million years ago before there was any life. (Which is completely wrong. Life began on Earth at least 3.5 billion years ago. In an alternate extended opening sequence, you clearly see trees and moss as the Engineer sacrifices himself. )

9. Why is the ship in the opening scene a saucer and not the iconic Giger horse-shoe ship? Because their ship design evolved.

10. Why can David speak the Engineer's language? Because he learned sanskrit and other ur-languages and somehow the Engineer language got transmitted in the DNA that seeded life. (Doesn't make any sense, but that's what you get when you have arty people writing science fiction.) No mention that they would have had to come back around 35,000 years ago and scribble on our cave walls.

11. Could staples really work on Shaw's caesarian? Ridley once got his knee stapled, so yes it could. (I'm serious - that's what he says).

12. Was there any significance to "Christmas" or events 2000 years ago? Nothing was mentioned. But the theme of children wanting to kill their parents was often mentioned. Charlize wants Weyland to die. David wants his creators to die.

13. David's motives? The screenwriters spoke at length about David's thoughts towards humans and the Engineers and his own artificialness, but not wanting to go down the Pinocchio route. For all of Fassbender's terrific performance, he actually doesn't convey half of what is supposed to be attributed to him by the writers.

14. Other issues? Ridley Scott repeatedly says that he decided to do something that way because it was cool or 'seemed right'. No explanations. No justifications. Doesn't matter if it doesn't make sense. Sean Harris, the actor who played Fifield the geologist suggested he go 'punk' and Scott simply said 'okay, why not?'. Can you really re-animate a 2000 year old head? Doesn't matter. Just add some techno-babble and it's fine.

In summary, I get the impression Ridley Scott doesn't really care. He's suffering from 'George Lucas Syndrome' (his shit don't stink), and is more concerned with delivering a product on budget, on time for the studio, than pleasing the fans. I did investigate the issue of science consultant, and amazingly the The Science & Entertainment Exchange was used, but only minimally and I can only conclude that most of the scientific advice was ignored.
Had it just been Jon Spaihts original script and had it been given to a director that cares about the material and who listened to a science consultant, it might have been a good movie.

959

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

But still, Scott has the clout/seniority of final yea or nea over any of Lindelhof's ideas. So the buck stops with Scott. btw, listen to how Scott deals with questions and criticisms by listening to Scott's Prometheus commentary at the 32minute mark. Someone asks 'what are you doing this for?' Scott's reply is 'fuck off, I've got three movies in the Library of Congress'.

When an actor is miscast in a movie - do you blame the actor or do you blame casting? Take Kingdom of Heaven - do you blame Orlando Bloom for not having the gravitas to carry the weight of the role, or do you blame the people who approved his casting? Jake Lloyd surely is Lucas' misjudgement.

Lindelhof does what he does. His Prometheus script is not out of left field given LOST. So the film-makers (Scott, etc) can hardly claim to be surprised when he turned in that script.

What the movie needed was a science consultant - many sci-fi movies and TV series have them, but there didn't seem to be one here. Didn't anyone spot one in the credits?

960

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

Dorkman wrote:

but instead Scott and Lindelof decided to have the characters carry on about incoherent philosophies in between acts of blithering, unaccountable stupidity.

Here's a theory - Scott got so much mileage from the 'was Deckard a replicant' debate, that the lesson he learned from the sci-fi genre is to 'vague it up' so that the nerds will debate it incessantly for years. So he instructed Lindelof to stick in more questions than answers in the hope that it'll become this enigmatic classic that'll get everyone talking.

Okay, sold. I'll see it next week. Wasn't going to, but given the glowing reviews and the lack of anything else on...

962

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

Fido wrote:
Dave wrote:

My counter question would be does more stupid make stupid better?

No, but: finding a £50 note under a car ($100 (ish)) could make you feel less agrieved about the trip + fall + skimmed knee that got you into a position from which you spotted it.

If a screenwriter can rescue the Prometheus trilogy after the handicap of the first film, I'd shake his hand. It's like winning a marathon after arriving an hour late.
Scene 1: Shaw suddenly wakes up in a tent in Scotland. That was a bad dream.
Better to start again with a reboot.

963

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

Dorkman wrote:

I think you're misunderstanding the objection. Just about everyone was down for a good old-fashioned thrill-and-chill without any kind of highbrow pretensions at all, but instead Scott and Lindelof decided to have the characters carry on about incoherent philosophies in between acts of blithering, unaccountable stupidity. The people who injected an inappropriate level gravitas into the franchise were the filmmakers, not the audience.

I know you're playing devil's advocate, but still.

You're right of course. The movie is indefensible. I gave it my best shot. It's up to Teague or someone else to step up to the plate and say want a classy movie it is.

964

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

bullet3 wrote:

And honestly, just for discussions sake, it's good to have at least one person defending the movie being done

I hated the movie, but if I had to defend it (other than how pretty it looks), I'd say 'since when is the Alien franchise supposed to be some high-brow meditation on the meaning of life, the universe and everything? The two best movies in the franchise, Alien and Aliens, were simply (1) haunted house in space, and (2) balls-to-the-wall action film. Fans who were disappointed that Prometheus didn't clarify the origin of humanity and God's plans for us had set the bar a bit too high. Somehow nostalgic fondness for the franchise had granted it a gravitas it never possessed.

That's the only nice thing I can say. Let DiF (& Red Letter Media) cast Prometheus back into the fiery abyss from whence it came.

965

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

So I'm wondering if all the ugness felt towards Prometheus might just go/disappear when parts 2+3 have come out and the complete story is told.

Reminds me of the hope that all would be tied up neatly in the final episode of LOST. I admire your optimism.  big_smile As William Goldman said about Hollywood, "nobody knows anything". Except Jim Cameron of course.

966

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

Dave wrote:

Oh gods, can the Prometheus commentary be on a Saturday US time? I want to hate fuck that movie from the chat room.

It's Phantom Menace for a whole new generation!  big_smile

967

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

Dorkman wrote:
Zarban wrote:

The David Prometheus video was awful. Not only does it go out of its way to be creepy, but there is stuff in there that is downright actionable. "I can do things that your human employees would find distressing or unethical"?! Boom -- lawsuit, and probably a DOJ investigation.

/wants to talk about the bonus situation

I don't know where this came from but, agh, I hate PROMETHEUS so much.

It'd be an interesting commentary - not only pointing out all the many flawed character motivations, lack of scientific rigour, inconsistency with the Alien universe, plotholes, unresolved questions, etc. But there's the wider issues of whose responsibility it is: Scott or Lindelhof? And how did it get a score of 73% on the Tomato meter, which exposes the gulf between mainstream older critics and younger genre specialists.

968

(77 replies, posted in Episodes)

Is there any weird stigma against people who start their careers in porn?

Just think, if all you DiF guys were hot chicks, you'd be starting at the top (lots of high-paid work on great gigs) and then its all downhill from there, until you end up doing porn

This week's intermission reminds me of Mulholland Drive

969

(346 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Armstrong is buried at sea...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7986320729_3bbaf105c7.jpg

970

(346 replies, posted in Off Topic)

If Aaron Sorkin was writing the script for that scene, Neil and Buzz would have a fast-paced witty snarky argument about religion with a lot of sass from Neil at Buzz's superstition.

971

(346 replies, posted in Off Topic)

Holy Communion Batman...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree … union-moon

972

(12 replies, posted in Off Topic)

I'm amazed that when when all the reports came out about torture in Gitmo and in Iraq, etc, the waterboarding and sleep deprivation, etc was all justified by the American government. But one thing that was absolutely intolerable was when US guards were being disrespectful to the Koran. Don't worry about the torture to humans, but abusing a book had to be stamped out real fast. That was going too far.

973

(30 replies, posted in Episodes)

Lamer wrote:

Yeah but why can't we have both? It shouldn't be an on/off switch. Either everything happens according to Hollywood template or Indy dies crushed by a boulder in the first 10 minutes of the movie. In se7en Gwyneth Paltrow did nothing wrong and yet she ended up having a pretty miserable day. Shit happens and sometimes innocent bystanders get the short end of the stick. I like that. Falling Skies does this. 'Oh look, what an innocent and lovely character. Surely she'll survive th...oh crap, she's dead'.

Bring it on. Ripley in Alien3. Viggo in The Road. Rocky loses the fight at the end of Rocky I. The Mist.

Loves me a bummer ending.
But clearly Twister isn't a dark arthouse flick. I was just making the point that getting a steel girder in the head for wanting to find out about tornardoes seems kinda excessive retribution. Cary had a character flaw... he was ambitious... therefore it is decreed by the Hollywood Gods that he has to die horribly.

There's this perception that Hollywood is liberal. But when it comes to portrayals of "bad people must die", Hollywood is more medieval than the most rabid right-wing Bible-thumping gun-toting red-neck hillbilly.

974

(30 replies, posted in Episodes)

Lamer wrote:
Invid wrote:

People die, not because they've wronged someone or some spirit, but just because they're there. Totally not their fault.

Well, that's how life works.

But generally not how mainstream Hollywood movies work. The good guy defeats the villain and gets the pretty girl. Children and animals are never harmed. The evil villain gets his come-uppance (usually blown away by the good guy after he cracks a pun).
I'm all for realism - why not have Paxton die in the twister and Cary live to get the data? Sure, it'd be injust, but that's life. But not emotionally satisfying for a mainstream Hollywood audience. In the cinema, we escape to a universe where there's punishment commensurate with the crime, and reward commensurate with the virtuous effort.

975

(26 replies, posted in Episodes)

If this was a tech forum, then instead of Star Wars vs Star Trek, it'd be Apple vs Android, or PC vs Linux.

Atheist forums (while they all don't believe in God) range from ultra-libertarians to socialists.

In Australia, we have Ford v Holden (General Motors) fan wars. Imagine getting worked up about cars.

I've always liked sci-fi/fantasy fans because they're interested in stuff, rather than just talking sports around the BBQ while suck'n on a Bud.