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It's the fable of the tortoise and hare.

Sure, once you're on the surface, man craps all over robot.

But given the MUCH longer development time for manned over robots, Team Robot has already a 20 year head start.

And if each team had the same amount of money, then Team Robot can deploy 20,30,50 (some say 100) robots for every manned mission.

Name any budget - big or small. You'll get more science data from robots, not man. Manned missions waste too much budget on life support systems, redundancy, PR, and having to return to Earth. And the gap between capabilities is hopefully closing, despite the glacial pace of AI research. Robots can work 24/7 in extreme radiation environments with detectors that operate outside normal senses.

Yes, manned missions have political benefits. Sure, they're inspirational. And you can't put a value on that. But if you care purely about the science, then robot beats man when factoring in project time, safety and budget.

How much for one manned mission to Mars? $500B? Probably more. After all, look how much the ISS cost. For the SAME money, you have 10 x Curiosity 2.0 rovers on Mars PLUS major Cassini-class orbiters around ALL the planets and major moons, the Terrestrial Planet Finder, balloons in Titan's atmosphere & Venus' atmosphere, floating probes on Titan's lakes, ice-core driller on Europa and Enceladus, etc.

What'll it be? You can have one Chinese man plant a flag on Mars or you can flood the solar system with probes?

Obviously in an ideal world, it'd be nice to have both manned & unmanned, but given finite budgetary constraints, I'll take robots every time as you can have more of them deployed in more difficult, exotic and interesting areas.

Anyway, that's my little rant. And I'm a big AI skeptic.

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China led the west AD500-AD1000. They came up with gunpowder, the compass, advanced sailing technology, (woodblock) printing, etc. But since about AD1500, it's all been the west. China basically contributed ZILCH to the Enlightenment and Scientific Revolution between AD1600 and the 20th century. So, yes, it's all there for them. They have the wealth, the population, the authoritarian 'we can make things happen fast' political system, and a shiny new dynamic economy.

But there's another issue about manned v unmanned (have we had that debate on these Space Nerd forums?). Personally I don't see the case for manned, but if China wanted to drop many Curiosity 2.0 rovers all over the solar system, that would be just as good imo.

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It'll be interesting if China really do take up the baton of exploring the solar system - in the 1960s/70s, The USA & Soviets were all over Venus & Mars & Moon, launching Viking, Pioneer & Voyager. There were big 'tentpole' missions every year, and not just Apollo. There were even balloon probes floating in the atmosphere of Venus!
I wonder how long it'll be until China actually goes beyond USA/Soviets e.g. landing on Europa or orbiting Neptune. It'll go faster if data is shared, but if China have to re-invent the wheel, we'll be retirement age before anything happens.

We've had 40 years of great innovation in computer miniaturisation and CCD sensors, etc - so the next generation of probes should give us HD 3D 1080p video from the surface of other worlds.

Less than a week till Curiosity - that baby better land, otherwise there's nothing for quite a while.

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We have progress - 40 years ago, teenage culture was dominated by camp caped crime-fighting crusaders like Batman, Spiderman and Superman, and today... oh bad example.

40 years ago we had the subsonic 747 to fly us from city to city, and now we have.... oh bad example.

40 years ago we were meddling in the middle east over fossilised plants from the Carboniferous. How primitive is that?

40 years ago women were campaigning for the right to have contraception and abortion without stigma

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Interesting article. So the book was prescient in one way (technology), but the broader ideas were still a product of the 19th century. It's been said before that sci-fi is more about the past than the future e.g. colonialism, Napoleonic naval battles, the threat of invasion during the Cold War, Captain Cook/Kirk sailing around the Pacific encountering new islands/worlds and making first contact.

If you go back to the 18th century, novels about travelling to strange new worlds (e.g. Gullivers Travels) were all about subversive ideas i.e. satire on ruling elites, comparing/contrasting alternative political systems, road-testing utopian ideals.

All those type of interesting ideas doesn't seem to exist anymore in sci-fi. It's goodies v baddies and explosions and superpowers, etc. They're very conservative, in that the status quo must be defended.

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Damn - I've going to have to avoid this thread for the next few days until I see it. Even vague comments give away too much. I don't even like to get a consensus thumbs up or thumbs down, lest it influence my own perception.

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The montage near the beginning of UP was unflinchingly adult. Among the most ballsy sequences Pixar ever did. The second half of the movie was your typical dumb chase-action stuff

I would watch a DUG spin-off movie by Pixar.

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Yes, Nolan on IMAX is double density i.e. ultra high resolution image AND enough plot for two movies compressed into one. No time to marvel at the picture detail as you've got to hold on and keep up with developments. I've long noticed there's little or no repetition of important plot points with Nolan films. Go to the can at your own peril.

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Booking IMAX tickets is like going to the opera - only one theatre for a city of 8 million people and if you want the 'sweet spot' seats (why is it the bigger the screen, the smaller the sweet spot?), you have to book 6 weeks in advance, which means dodging all the spoilers during the marketing campaign.

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Did you see the running time? 164 minutes. Getting up to LOTR length, although Nolan doesn't do Extended Editions for any of his DVD/Blu-Ray releases.

Well, this movie is bound to get its own topic sooner or later, so I might as well start...

How's the enthusiasm amongst DiFers? Is everyone worn out with superhero flicks this summer?
Are you guys maintaining a black-out to prevent spoilers, as the PR machine ramps up?
Here in London, there's only one IMAX screen in central London, so I had to get tickets weeks ago for the end of this month. Does anyone plan to see midnight screenings? There are even trilogy screenings here.
Can Nolan do no wrong?
Is this trilogy the gold standard of how to do superhero?
What do you think of the soundtrack? I've heard it a few times - seems like a rehash (but a little inferior) to DK.

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Wow - a screenplay writer selling a spec script could pre-viz his entire vision for the dumb suits at the Studio.

Globalization - if you're making films for one culture, you can play with the rules, give a wink, rely on audience knowledge, etc. But if you now have to be mindful of BRICK (Brazil, Russia, India, China, Korea), it's gotta be as bland, generic and dumb and light-on-dialogue as possible, so it plays in all markets with as little modification as possible.
Everyone can understand chasing and 'plosions, no matter what language they speak or if they've been educated in some foreign college. So serve up 2 hours of chasing and 'plosions, with an A-lister and a pretty side-kick and the suits say that's guaranteed $300M profit.