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Friends In Your Head | Forums → Posts by Dorkman
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MOUTH OF MADNESS is great, the only movie I've seen so far to really capture Lovecraft's vibe.
PRINCE OF DARKNESS feels a little like a Lovecraft short story, too -- though that's damning it with faint praise, as Lovecraft's stories are meandering weirdnesses that don't lend themselves well to movies in themselves. They can form the seeds of inspiration for more developed stuff, though. They should've left THE THING alone and seen what they could make of POD instead.
Although come to think of it, I think the good modern version of POD might be CONSTANTINE.
THEY LIVE is mostly just silly.
So it's essentially circular reasoning, begging the question, and related fallacies. The movie isn't stupid, and anything that appears stupid is therefore not stupid, because if it were stupid the movie would be stupid, and the movie isn't stupid. Using the conclusion he's trying to argue as a premise in the argument itself.
RLM responds. Sorta.
I haven't read it yet, but what's always interesting to me in the people who respond to the "describe these characters" challenge is how they will tend to list off what they expect the characters to be, archetypically, or what Lucas has other characters say about them, or what is written about them in external sources such as character descriptions in fanzines or EU novels, rather than traits they actually display in the film(s).
FACEBOOK DOWN?! O NOES!!
HIDE YOUR KIDS HIDE YOUR WIFE THEY BE RAPIN ERRBODY OUT THERE
Meh, everyone knows Westboro Baptists are shitheads. Even they know it. They just like the attention.
Now, while I can see the parallels the film is trying to draw, where the people are making the broad generalized statements about the aliens, about how they're all stupid violent idiots who wallow in filth and have this dangerous addiction to cat food that can get out of hand, or they're these naive morons who get taken advantage of and can't help themselves because they just don't know any better, etc. Drawing a line between those aliens and black people during apartheid I feel is just a bit insulting.
I don't think we're meant to draw any such line. Blomkamp's experience with apartheid colors the segregational nature of the film's culture, but I don't think he was in any way making -- or asking the audience to make -- a 1:1 correlation between the "prawns" and the actual African victims of apartheid.
The thing about real racism and repression is that people who otherwise would go out and work and do the best they could to try to better themselves, support their families, etc can't do that because they are of a certain group and thus are restricted either by law or by society and that makes it very difficult for them to survive and prosper.
I'm sorry, but how is that not exactly what DISTRICT 9 is about? When the aliens arrived, they were evacuated from their ship and immediately sequestered into an internment camp, where they are -- to use your own words -- restricted by law and by society. They were not given education, opportunities to better themselves, or even status as intelligent creatures. Not really, not to most of society. What is there FOR them to do, other than exist, and run around in squalor, and get high now and then?
If DISTRICT 9 is making any direct racial point, it's that racism is a vicious cycle -- if you treat people like animals, they can hardly be expected to do anything but act like animals, which only results in continuing to treat them like animals. Whatever it is we hate about the prawns, the movie seems to be saying, we're the ones who made them this way.
To me, it's not that Christopher Johnson is more acceptable because he's different from the others, in some Magic Negro stereotype way. Christopher Johnson, I think, shows that such things as courage and intelligence exist within the prawns -- fundamental to their species -- but it's been systematically driven out of most of them after decades of mistreatment.
That's true of humans, too -- regardless of race. Those traits exist within our species, but they can be beaten out of all but the strongest of us, regardless of race. The thing is, not all races have had to really endure the kind of hardship that tests the will so cruelly. Spoiler alert: "white" ain't one of them.
Christopher Johnson is the film's way of showing us that the people of Johannesburg are wrong to think of the prawns as hopeless, mindless animals -- and, in turn, that we were wrong for believing it.
...
I've just been struck by a notion. I don't know if it holds up, I'd have to watch it again. We commented, essentially offhand, about how the film switches between documentary and narrative. It strikes me that when the film is a documentary -- i.e. when it is from the perspective of the humans -- that is when the prawns are represented as animalistic, wild, dangerous. But when the film is a narrative, not filtered through human prejudice -- which it almost always is around Christopher Johnson -- the prawns are represented as intelligent, courageous, and essentially human.
There's also a difference in how the humans are portrayed: as the long-suffering, reluctant saviors of the prawns in the documentary footage -- i.e. the way they see themselves -- and as ruthless, dispassionate monsters in the narrative -- i.e. the way they truly are.
If this holds up I wish I'd thought of it before we did the commentary, but it may be that the two "styles" actually represent the cinematic equivalent of an unreliable and a reliable narrator, side by side. Maybe the prawns in general are actually more like Christopher Johnson than the humans realize, but because we're seeing through their eyes at first, we inherit their prejudices.
I might be retconning again (Blomkamp says nothing of the sort in his director's commentary), and this is kind of off to the side of what you're talking about in your post, but that'd be fucking awesome if it lined up.
As for Transformers 2 and it's supposed racism... Making them look like monkeys could be argued as racist ,but their behavior, on the other hand, is totally not. If they didn't behave the way they do, then would the fact that they look like monkeys even matter? If the robots were voiced by white guys who just spoke the way the average white dude speaks be racist? I mean, wouldn't that imply that white people look like monkeys? That's totally racist, right?
See, here's the problem. How does "the average white dude" speak? You say that phrase and people might think of your average surfer dude, your average stuffy British guy, or just your average neutral West Coast dialect. The idea of "white dude" is culturally nebulous, because white people in movies, TV, etc. represent a broad range of backgrounds and cultural heritages.
You ask how "the average black dude" speaks, what pops into most peoples' heads is ebonics. Because black people aren't portrayed as being from a broad range of backgrounds and heritages, most times. Black people are portrayed as being from the 'hood. A person isn't racist for having that pop into their heads, but it is a racist stereotype that the culture might consider not enforcing so powerfully.
As to your other point, there is not a long and unfortunate historical association, made by racists, of white people with monkeys. So no, having a monkey-shaped robot talk like a surfer dude is not a racist stereotype.
There is a long and unfortunate historical association, made by racists, of black people with monkeys. So yes, having a monkey-shaped robot speak ebonics is a racist stereotype.
It's not any one aspect of the twins that make them racist stereotypes -- it's that they represent a critical mass of every imaginable negative "black" stereotype in one package.
Don't get me wrong, there's some pretty racist shit out there in films, but the transformer twins' behavior can be found in films that have entirely black casts and were written and directed by black people. Suddenly the ignorant ghetto talk is perfectly normal and OK? I mean, it doesn't seem to bother the tons of black people who are there working on the movie, right?
But it does bother tons of black people who aren't. I think you'll find a lot of black folks out there who loathe the fact that Tyler Perry and other stereotypes represent them in the culture.
And plus, frankly, there's always a double standard in who can say certain things and who can't. And that's not necessarily racial. For example, friends often give each other shit. You and your best friend may happily say things to each other that, if some stranger on the street walked up and said them to you, would earn him a punch in the mouth. That's because you know that there's an underlying affection when you say it, whereas the stranger's motivations may well be malicious.
In a similar way, black people addressing black stereotypes is more likely to come from a place of understanding than white people engaging in black stereotypes. Because whatever any black person says about "black people," it's tempered by the fact that they are necessarily saying it about themselves. Anything a white person says about "black people" need in no way apply to themselves, and therefore the full force of any stinging words remains.
When black people make a movie with black stereotypes, it's fairly safe to assume that the black people know that isn't all there is to black people. When white people make a movie with black stereotypes, it is in no way safe to assume that the white people know that isn't all there is to black people.
Please come to the District 9 thread and expound on what you feel is racist about DISTRICT 9.
Obviously it's meant to be a racial allegory, but I'm interested in hearing where you feel that crosses the line into racism, to a greater degree than monkey-like illiterate robots speaking ebonics -- in a movie which is NOT meant to be a racial allegory -- does.
I think RLM has value because there's a difference between knowing THAT a film is dull and plodding and confusing, and being able to articulate WHY. It's what we do on DIF, after all.
I think RLM makes a lot of points that fanboys haven't been saying -- I don't remember anyone ever pointing out that TPM had no protagonist before he did. If he was just bitching about Jar Jar the whole time, I'd agree, but I think all three of them have held far more insight than most things I've seen in my time around fanboys.
I'm glad we weren't having this conversation live on the show because the first thing I blurted out of my stupid mouth would have been "Is iron magnetic?" And then I would have sat there in shock once my brain realized what my mouth had just done.
I classify sci-fi/fantasy as a common genre.
Tagline: "This Droid is Looking for YOU"
WHERES MY OSCAR
SATOSHI KON WAS DEAD THE WHOLE TIME
...no but seriously, that's sad to hear. I just watched PAPRIKA at around Xmas time and really liked it, and in the behind the scenes stuff Kon seemed like a really interesting guy.
It wasn't a repeat of a previous plot, always a plus.
Interesting. One of the negatives I've heard about ROTJ is precisely that it IS something of a rehash of the original, what with it being another Death Star and such.
So, when's the Clone Wars commentary coming out?
I have made it a goal to live my entire life without ever seeing that film.
I'll probably fall off the wagon sooner or later, succumbing to curiosity in a moment of weakness, but for now my resolve remains strong.
Is it the Special Edition of Jedi? I feel like you guys should confront them, and this is your last shot.
The other two have been the theatrical editions, I think we should finish it that way.
We've managed to discuss the differences when they come up, and overall I think we've addressed the SEs suitably.
Trust me, we won't forget to mention that Hayden Christensen's stupid-albeit-pretty face now shows up at the end in some versions, even if that isn't the version we're watching.
Blech, TANGLED. Did not care for that one.
I think it was the smirking postmodern attitude that marred it for me -- it was like watching Dreamworks trying to do old-school Disney rather than Disney stretching its arms to embrace a new medium.
The animation work overall was stellar and the animal characters were quite funny -- although Pascal ran out of things to do between midpoint and climax -- but aside from "When Will My Life Begin," the songs fell flat for me ("Mother Knows Best" pales beside "Poor Unfortunate Souls") and the dialogue was almost physically painful at times.
I actually really liked BURN AFTER READING just because of the sheer balls involved overall, and particularly in the above spoiler.
TERMINATOR: SALVATION
Right at the end I brought up cargo cults, stating that I thought they were tribes in Africa after World War II. Cargo cult behavior is actually associated with islander populations in the South Pacific, and were observed prior to WWII but did spike significantly thereafter. Wikipedia.
2012
We gave mad props to ILM for the phenomenal FX work in the film, particularly during the Caldera (Yellowstone Park) Sequence. Many companies -- including Digital Domain, Double Negative, ScanlineVFX, and Hydraulx -- contributed effects work to the film, but ILM was not one of them. The Caldera specifically was done by DNeg, as was the collapse of the Vatican, which as I recall was another moment we specifically praised the VFX. fxguide
As our listeners have no doubt realized, we don't really plan our commentaries ahead of time. We don't go off a script, and aside from sometimes discussing our broad impressions of a movie while we're setting up for the episode, we speak pretty much extemporaneously.
As such, we occasionally make statements which are inaccurate or untrue, urban legends or mistaken recollections.
We can't really go back and correct the episodes themselves, but last year we devoted a small segment of our anniversary show to revisiting some episodes and revising our opinions or correcting mistakes we made. I think that went well, and we can take the opportunity to do it again.
The folks here in the forum are pretty good about pointing out our most egregious errors, this thread will just be used to aggregate them for easy reference in the correction.
If you want to add an error to the list, please indicate in which episode the incorrect statement was made, and ideally a link to further information. Please don't include differences of opinion here, that's what the individual show threads are for.
I didn't know how else to tell you about this Nigerian prince I know. He's trapped in the UK and powerfully convinced that your penis could stand to be larger.
His ability to simultaneously high-five himself and jerk off about his own amazing "jokes," while noteworthy for its physical improbability, did not endear him to me.
Congrats on the sweepingly positive comments though.
And I did like his point that, of all the things one could use to search for a rogue submarine and/or whale, a helicopter is well over on the "less effective" end of the scale.
Calling it now: if there's a sequel, I bet it's called TRON LIVES.
I chalk it up in part to really low expectations -- between the dullness of the original, the horrible reviews I'd been hearing, and just the general expectation I have for these kinds of movies thanks to the Bay/McG factor -- but I, too, found myself enjoying the film significantly more than I expected to.
I liked most of the ideas laid out in the film but I felt like there was too much and none of it was developed to its full potential. It wasn't a situation like TRANSFORMERS 2, where ideas were raised and dropped on a scene-by-scene basis because they were just trying to fill time -- I really had the feeling that the filmmakers were trying to bring them all together, that it probably made sense in their heads, and it just didn't quite gel in the final product.
At a full two hours, it's long for this kind of movie, and it had definite pacing issues. However, I don't think the movie was too long, just that they didn't use the time wisely.
I'd heard that the Pixar brain trust were called in during reshoots to advise on story problems. That could certainly explain why the story is kind of there but doesn't quite hang together. If they'd been brought in at the beginning instead of called in for triage I bet they would have made it work.
My biggest issue was with dialogue. The main character Sam spent 95% of the movie either narrating what was happening in front of him ("He's building an army!") or spouting off trailerspeak ("Whoa!" "Here we go!" "You gotta be kidding me!"), and they held a gun to Jeff Bridges' head and forced him to play The Dude instead of Flynn.
I think I've decided I love Michael Sheen though -- while I didn't really like his character in this film, any man who can chew the scenery so fearlessly, take roles in a wide range of kooky genre flicks with no hesitation, and then flip a switch and become David Frost or Tony Blair with total credibility...that's an actor, man.
I think my favorite comment about CLU was along the lines of "Not only did he fall into the bottom of the Uncanny Valley, he landed on his face." He just...didn't work. He came straight out of Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. We're a post-Benjamin Button and -Avatar society, we can and have done better. On the other hand, he was consistently bad, as opposed to some hero shots working and others being of varying quality. And also he was supposed to be, literally, computer-generated. So you could rationalize it. But it never really worked for me.
The movie was actually quieter and less kinetic in the action than I've become accustomed to. On the one hand I think they could have kicked the sound design up a notch (BAM), but on the other hand I kind of appreciated an action spectacle that didn't feel like it was screaming "DUUURRRRRR!" in my face while it hit me with a spoon.
So I liked it well enough. I'll probably pick it up on Blu-Ray if there are decent special features, and I could see myself watching some sequences of it again (though probably not the whole film, aside from DIF-related occasions).
If anyone out there hasn't seen it and is on the fence, try to catch a matinee and hold the 3D. It wasn't really worth the $17 (yeah, you heard me) I paid to see it, but I'd say it's worth your $6 or $7.
Friends In Your Head | Forums → Posts by Dorkman
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