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The US box office for Agora and the Charles Darwin biopic Creation, which both came out about the same time, were both less than $1M each.
Agora's international box office was over 60X more. Normally, with big budget movies with big name actors, the US domestic roughly equals the international.
I keep thinking about getting that with an Audible credit but several of the reviews have me wary based on how they claim some of the actors swap characters for no discernible reason. Also I have three copies of the book, buying it again seems foolish.
On the subject of LOTR, by the way, does anyone have any connections to TheOneRing.net? We should've thought to alert them BEFORE the marathon but too late now; we might as well alert them to the releases.
I mentioned that in post #148. I did write to them when the Fellowship mp3 went up. I was going to write again when all three were up - I wasn't sure how DiF would roll them out (all three at once or staggered). Maybe TORN have to vet them first in case you're trashing Peter Jackson, which you don't. I have sent them articles to them in the past and they've posted them (notification of trilogy screenings, event Q&A reports, etc) but that was a while ago. I hope they do give you some publicity. They did post news of the LOTR Rifftrax, so I don't see why DiF should miss out given your material is far superior.
Someone replied that us readers have built up this knowledge base on these imaginary worlds, and WANT to be able to use it somehow. Reading another Dune, Pern, or Star Wars book lets us do that.
Yes. Why did people see Episode II after the disappointment of Episode I, and why see III after the first two were garbage? The Prequels would have been flops had IV, V, VI never existed. I think of it in accounting terms i.e. something like credit and debit. A big hit book or movie generates a lot of goodwill (i.e. loyal fanbase). Lots of credit in the 'bank'.
But then subsequent chapters of rubbish quality (blatant cashing in, straight-to-video low-budget crap, spin-offs, etc) draw down the goodwill until there's 0 left. Who would want to see Starship Troopers 4 or Robocop 4 or Cube 4 or whatever?
Hence the reboot i.e. an effort to accumulate new goodwill in the asset after the first attempt has been drawn down e.g. Joel Schumacher ran Batman into the ground, and the only way forward was Ctrl-Alt-Delete.
In both cases, the universes both novels create is too elaborate for a conventional 2-3 hour movie, so you need lots of exposition.
You can almost work out mathematically what the maximum number of protagonists for a normal 2-hour movie should be. For movies which are NOT adaptations from novels, you don't want to go over about half a dozen. Too many characters and you need to spend too much screen time fleshing out each one with backstory and motivation and personalities (that pass the Plinkett test). If 5 minutes of screen time is enough to convey backstory, motivation, and personality, then six characters gives you 30 minutes of character development, which is 25% of your 2 hour movie, before you get to action, comedy, love, set-back, and finale.
Now for Dune or Lord of the Rings, the novels contain dozens of characters and complicated elaborate backstories, and it's just too much for a normal movie. Hence the prologue. Luckily Lord of the Rings is an 11 hour movie (I don't think of it as three movies). And Dune is every bit as rich and needed the 9-11 hour treatment as well, or a TV series.
It's got very good production standards - blending the Greek/Roman/Egyptian architecture for that period.
There was just a talk in London tonight about the depiction of Greek astronomy in the movie and what the many objections were to a heliocentric system.
It's quite unflinching in its depiction of Christianity as the harbinger of the Dark Ages. You don't see that too often in big budget movies where faith almost always triumphs over reason ('Luke you switched off your targeting computer').
Just re-watched the Spanish film AGORA (2009) starring Rachel Weisz.
Seeing that many of you DiF dudes are science literate atheists and fans of Carl Sagan (Brian?), I think you might really like this one if you haven't already seen it.
It's one of the most expensive Spanish movies ever made ($70M!), but filmed in English. And it takes an unusually strong rationalist stance. It puts forward the premise that 4th century mathematician Hypatia worked out a heliocentric solar system where the planets orbit in ellipses over a thousand years before Kepler.
With Christians and Jews bickering with pagans & heathens as the Roman Empire is losing control over Alexandria, the famous library is burned - one of the infamous events that brings down a millennium-long Dark Age over western civilization.
It also stars the Indian guy from The Social Network in a powerful uncompromising role.
It had virtually no theatrical release in the USA (perhaps because it's a two-hour fuck-you to religion).
Agora's closest Hollywood equivalent would be Contact.
The trailer is here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbuEhwselE0
1. Why doesn't the ring turn Sauron invisible like it does with everyone else who wears it?
2. Are the big badass creatures like the Watcher In The Water, the Balrog and Shelob one of a kind monsters or are they part of a larger species? If they are part of larger species, where the fuck are the rest of them during this story?
I'm guessing Sauron knows how to wield it. He has full admin privilege rights to the Ring and can customize its settings.
Those non-aligned creatures - perhaps they're really old and are the last of their species. And Gandalf had to go and kill the last surviving Balrog in the wild before it could be placed on the Endangered Species Act. And Sam almost did the same to Shelob.
Someone should post a news-story on THE ONE RING.NET with a link to the mp3s. Let all fans of the LOTR movies experience this amazing achievement.
My friends, you bow to no one
Congrats guys - brilliant effort. There will be tales told by bards about your feat - long into the future and in far away lands.
I wonder if people will ever say, 'Let's hear about Dorkman and Trey and the LOTR Commentary marathon.' And they'll say 'Yes, that's one of my favorite stories. Dorkman had real stamina, didn't he, Dad?' 'Yes, my boy, the most famousest of commentators. And that's saying a lot'
You've left out one of the chief characters - Teague. I want to hear more about Teague.
Does anyone know what the original plan was? (I haven't read the books for ages, so I've forgotten).
Had there not been an Orc ambush at the end of FOTR, were the nine going to sneak into Mordor when the Black Gate was open? Or recuperate at Minas Tirith for a while? I've forgotten what was actually decided at the Council of Elrond. In the movie, Elijah volunteers to 'take the ring' but there was no discussion of how or by which route into Mordor.
I don't think the eagles would have worked.
I'm not saying it's a certainty, but given the choice between the two plans, the Eagle option (+ diversion) had more positives than the other option which was the equivalent to sending some kids from the local high school into Nazi Germany and swiping the invasion plans off Hitler's desk.
rtambree wrote:A night-time airborne assault from high-altitude straight down on Mt Doom...
...would still be noticed by the Dark Lord. Even it was almost completely successful but was slightly off course, it would deliver the ring directly to Sauron.
Create a diversion first. Gondorian archers firing flaming arrows over the Black Gate. Arwen riding nude on Shadowfax up on some safe vantage-point. Ents lobbing stones at Minas Morgul. The Dark Lord won't know where to look first.
The best argument against using eagles to fly the ring to Mt. Doom is that Mordor has both an airforce (fell beasts).
Eagles v Fell-Beasts: from what we saw in the movie, those Eagles kicked Fell-Beast butt. They might not look like much, but they've got it where it counts, kid.
I've also heard the explanation that the Eagles just don't really want to get mixed up in the war. They help Gandalf out because he's their buddy, and they show up to help again when all hope seems lost for the good guys because...they're nice, I guess? But they never wanted to explicitly fight for one side or the other. Not sure how much sense that actually makes, but that's what I've been told.
Persuade the Eagles, like the Ents were persuaded. Look Dudes, do you wanna fly over a blackened landscape of smoking stumps? Because if you're not with us, you're against us.
The best argument against using eagles to fly the ring to Mt. Doom is that Mordor has both an airforce (fell beasts) and anti-aircraft (about a million archers), it would have been an endeavour as susceptible to failure as invading Mordor with an army.
Are you saying 'one cannot simply fly into Mordor'?
A night-time airborne assault from high-altitude straight down on Mt Doom (like shooting womp rats back home in Beggar's canyon) would surely be less risky than sending in two useless, unskilled, unamoured Hobbits into the heart of enemy territory (Hudson: 'You can count me out').
The reason given was always that the Eagles can't be summoned at will, but they are:
Gandalf calls them on his 'moth phone' on top of Orthanc
Gandalf calls them outside the Black Gate
Gandalf calls them to rescue the Hobbits passed out on the rock
They are his bitches. Gandalf could float Middle Earth Airways on the Gondor Stock Exchange
Cast nationality breakdown:
At least it's not good-guys = Yanks, bad-guys = Poms
Heads of Rivendell, Lothlorien & Gondor: Aussies
Love interests: Yank & Aussie & Kiwi
Sam & Frodo: Yanks (although Peter Jackson originally intended Brits)
Evil bastards: Count Dooku (Brit), Wormtongue (Yank)
Most of the Fellowship: Brits
Wizards: Brits
Local NZ actors: Besides Eomer, virtually no one with speaking parts
Tolkien was born in Victorian England and in many ways was a man of his time in respect to class, women, religion, race, reaction to modernity, etc.
If one were re-imagining LOTR today, you'd need to include at least one woman in the fellowship, probably a kick-arse woman (maybe Legolas would change gender). And Sam couldn't be Frodo's gardener (i.e. social inferior). And having dark skin wouldn't imply that you're evil. Maybe an Orc would betray his race and help out the fellowship. And maybe some of the pseudo-religious aspects would be toned down.
What other aspects of LOTR feel antiquated today i.e. if you were writing the novels now, you'd feel compelled to change?
Frodo = Luke (no love interests, both raised by their uncles)
Gandalf = Obi Wan (respawning wise old mentors)
Merry & Pippin = C3PO & R2D2 (comic relief)
Aragorn = Han (able to take out countless enemies)
Legolas = Chewy (bow/bowcaster)
Orthanc/Isengard & Barad-Dur = Death Star (all three under construction)
Drop the ring into the volcano = Drop the photon-torpedo into the exhaust port (all problems are solved)
Tatooine = The Shire (the farm)
Saruman = Darth Vader (the deputy)
Sauron = The Emperor (evil personified)
Prancing Pony at Bree = Cantina at Mos Eisley (an altercation, pick up Aragorn/Han)
Nazgul & Orcs = Stormtroopers
Elves & Rohan & Gondor = Rebel Alliance
Frodo loses a finger = Luke loses a hand
Galadriel = Yoda (help along the way)
Look in the mirror = Look in the cave
Sting = Lightsaber (both are inherited and both glow blue!)
Balrog / Shelob = Wampa / Rancor (obstacles along the way)
Watcher in the Water = creature in the trash compactor
Wearing Orc amour as disguise in Mordor = wearing Stormtrooper armour as disguise on Death Star
Ents = Ewoks (both allies from the forest)
Wagnerian leitmotifs in the score = Ditto
Enemies have superior numbers but inferior fighting skills = Ditto
'My friends, you bow to no one' = Applause & Medals
Anything else?
Here's a topic for vigorous discussion that I've seen blow-up on forums: racism and LOTR.
Specifically it's possible to pre-judge each member of each race by the average characteristics of that race. All orcs are evil, all elves are noble, all hobbits over-eat & over-drink, etc.
Then there's the broader point of overlaying Middle Earth onto Europe - inhabitants get more nasty the further you travel to the south and east.
Another question for discussion in hour nine:
Which character should get their own spin-off TV series?
I don't know half the Harry Potter films half as well as I should not like, and I like less than half of them half as well as they deserve
Don't worry, it's just a warm-up for the Harry Potter movie marathon commentary on Sunday.
I'd prefer three files, one for each movie, but it might be more convenient to break them up by disc (for sync purposes).
Looking forward to this - I can fly from London to Singapore and Down in Front will still be discussing Lord of the Rings, while all the other schmucks on the plane are watching Adam Sandler movies.
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