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Friends In Your Head | Forums → Posts by Zarban
Great job, guys! Really enjoyed this one.
Michael wins the Internets for pointing out that his steak experiment is invalid because it wasn’t a double-blind test.
This is a transformation monster movie, like The Amazing Colossal Man, Attack of the 50 Foot Woman, The Incredible Melting Man, Incredible Shrinking Man, and so on—even The Wolf Man.
In the DiF commentary for Up, Trey mocks Brian for wanting to give a Pepsi to old-timey people, presumably, by way of a time machine. By my count, DiF has only done 2 actual time travel movies, but it reminded me of a discussion I had with friends a couple of years ago.
If you could travel back in time with, say, a duffel bag full of stuff but not much more, what would you take as a means of getting food, lodging, spending money, etc. for several months? You must go to the years 1700 or 300 of the common era—anywhere in the world—and be ready in a few hours.
If you like, you can also give an answer for a more fully planned out—but only modestly funded—trip (in other words, no bag full of flawless diamonds or anything else you can't get your hands on today in the first place).
You may also want to consider what you would put in your duffel bag to bring back after the trip is over. Keep in mind that carbon dating would be inaccurate for these items, so you aren't going to be able to sell them to museums or rich private collectors.
Come to think of it, the film begins with the story of the lost princess, right? And it ends with her return. That makes it a frame story. And frames stories are pretty much always the primary reality. What happens inside the frame is a dream, fantasy, flashback, or other alternate reality (parallel reality seems the appropriate way to think of it in PL).
I think GTD has kind of the same problem in PL that the Coens sometimes have, particularly in Barton Fink. They have said (specifically in regard to BF) that they don't plan symbolism. They just do what feels right. For me, Barton Fink works on a visceral level (whereas PL didn't), but I still found myself frustrated intellectually because the pieces of the storyline do not add up to a single coherent story.
People who love PL must buy GDT's premise that the film is a parable, meaning that this specific story is really applicable generally for everyone and has a moral, which in this case must necessarily be something like "Achieve fulfillment by asserting your independence, but be prepared for the consequences." (He probably also called it a fairy tale; certainly every reviewer did.)
But in PL, we have two worlds: a mundane world at war and a fantastic world missing a princess. Ofelia's primary reality must be the fantastic world. If it weren't, then the story would merely be Ofelia's tragic delusion, which is certainly not GDT's aim. However, the parallels between the events in the two worlds (so well described by Squiggly_P), therefore, are a distraction. The only purpose for narrative parallels is to equate the two things that are acting in parallel, and we have established that the fantastic world is necessarily independent of and equal to the mundane world.
I would really like to find a justification for GDT to create those parallels between the two worlds. Perhaps he merely wants to reinforce the idea that the moral about asserting yourself is applicable in the mundane world. But the problem of the unnecessary parallels are compounded by the strangeness of the application of the moral to the events in the story. Michael is right when he wrote that the tests don't really reinforce the theme of asserting yourself against authority... unless—and I think maybe I can give the film this—these aren't so much tests as lessons; and lessons governed by fantastical logic.
The lesson of the toad is that you can get what you want if you assert yourself and apply the tools you have (that is: you may be small but you are not powerless).
The lesson of the Pale Man is that you are taking a risk if you do not follow the rules of authority (however unreasonable they may be) and you must be prepared for the consequences.
These lessons prepare her for the final confrontation, which really is a test of her princess-hood. She asserts herself against unreasonable authority (which, knee-jerk or not, is sadly more than most adults did when confronted with fascists) and knowingly suffers the consequences. That is an A in the movie's fantastical logic, and she gets to return to the fairy world as a princess.
I'll have to re-watch the film (it's been a couple of years) to see if that analysis holds up, but thinking of it this way may soften my gut-level negative reaction.
The Thing was largely dismissed when it came out, but it has gradually grown in stature since coming out on video. DIF does a great job at looking at it critically and having fun with it.
In the last year or so, it has become one of my very favorite sci fi films. I think it's tightly written, very well acted, and uses its magic beans sparingly for some really effective scenes. The climax is a bit weak; that's where the effects of the time seem the most threadbare. They probably should have gone with a human-drama climax (tension and trust) instead of a video game level boss.
But I can't see how a remake could be better. The effects don't really let the movie down. The acting and directing carry it off, and you'd never be able to duplicate those performances. Even so, I look forward to the prequel.
DorkmanScott wrote:My favorite part of that is that -- for me at least -- it's a tweet by Eddie that's used as an example for both of us. So really it's Eddie vs. Eddie.
20 bucks says Eddie takes it.
My money's on Eddie prime. Age and experience.
I guess, as much as I'm becoming a fag for everything Hitchcock lately, it's embarrassing that I've seen as little of his stuff as I have.
Also, I've never seen The Goonies.
Okay, see? That's what I'm talking about. This isn't an AFI dick-measuring contest. It's about confessing to the holes in your film knowledge that makes you not get cultural references in ordinary conversation or The Simpsons.
Other examples for me: I've never seen 101 Dalmatians—cartoon or live—American Pie, or The Exorcist. Actually, The Exorcist should probably be higher than Clerks on my list.
LOL. Eddie and Shackman are racists. (see OP) 
@Shackman & TrowaGP02a: See Breakin' 2 while listening to Gymkommentary's commentary. It's fantastic.
@Teague: I notice you've posted here but not given your list. It must be hilariously embarrassing. I'm guessing it includes Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
Interested in Brian and Kyle's lists too. I bet Brian's includes The Muppet Movie. And Kyle's list includes They Live.
@everyone else: I'm having a little trouble believing that you people are having embarrassed conversations like, "Oh, you guys are talking about Battleship Potemkin/Cache/Giant again? Don't spoil it for me! I still haven't caught up with that one." Are you sure you've all seen ET, Reservoir Dogs, and Blazing Saddles?
I'll let my iTunes play count stats speak for themselves
First of all: those number are disturbing.
But second: you listen to them in iTunes? If I listen to a commentary without the movie, I use Windows Media Player and crank it up to about 1.4x play speed. (for fine control: View > Enhancements > Play Speed Settings)
That's the way I listen to podcasts all the time. You get used to it pretty quickly.
The Patriot is entertaining in the same way as Braveheart, but they butcher history. I could go on but I'll... stop before I pop.
Yeah. I love that it's called "The Patriot" but the protagonist's motivation is actually revenge.
...And furniture curiosity. Seriously, what was up with that?
And the seriously hot little girl. God, if I was 10 again.
Okay, what.
Meh. The only jailbait that could hook me is Kristen Stewart in Zathura. She was embarrassingly mesmerizing.
And Shirley Temple. Wahey!
/callback to an obscure joke from another thread
Name three.
1. Diane Thorne in Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS
2. Diane Thorne in Ilsa, Harem Keeper of the Oil Sheiks
3. Diane Thorne in Ilsa, The Wicked Warden
Aside: I saw effects wizard/actor/stuntman Tom Savini in a comic book/video/music shop in Pittsburgh yesterday. I didn't say hello because I wasn't sure until I looked it up that he's from Pittsburgh and because I hear he bites. Any DIFers know him personally?
1. Ellen Page in Hard Candy
2. Sigourney Weaver in Alien
3. Zoe Saldana in Avatar
4. Dolly Parton in Nine to Five
5. Mélanie Laurent in Inglourious Basterds
9 to 5 was on over the past weekend, and I sort of fast-forwarded thru it for the best parts. Dolly rocks. Nevertheless, there are some conspicuous absences from that list....
For anyone interested, over the last two days I have seen the following for the first time...
Okay. I see where you're coming from. You're clearly up for a challenge. Let me make these recommendations:
Brick
Hard Candy (did somebody say this already?)
Confessions of a Dangerous Mind
Ed Wood (at the least, see Plan 9 From Outer Space first)
Citizen X
Catch Me If You Can
Being John Malkovich
The Dreamers
The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
This list makes me realize that, apparently, I am a big Charlie Kaufman fan. So I guess I'd better see Synecdoche, New York.
Top 5 science-fiction movies of all time.
Star Wars
Empire Strikes Back
Alien
The Thing
The Terminator
(very, very close: Close Encounters, Frankenstein (1931), Aliens, Terminator 2, Back to the Future, Blade Runner)
(close: Jedi, The Matrix, Serenity, Jurassic Park, Planet of the Apes (1968), 2001, War Games)
(not science fiction: King Kong (1933), Ghostbusters, The Dark Knight)
Next: Top 5 female badasses in cinema
The cinematography is solid, but suffers from an issue I first noticed in 300 (which by coincidence was commentarred by our panel in the same day) so let's call it "300 Syndrome."
Are you saying that you also participate in audio commentaries available for download on the Web? Please explain further. With links.
Yeah, Shane is on my list somewhere. And so was The Searchers until recently. That surprised me in the way it felt more conventional than I thought it would, but it also has some wonderful subtext once you think about it and see it a second time. With the John Wayne love expressed on another DIF board, that would be an interesting DIF to hear.
All About Eve was funny for me, because I was totally on the wrong side as everyone else. I was just like, "Fuck you, Bette Davis, you bitch" the whole time.
I don't think I've ever listened to an episode more than once. But I know I'm unusual in that I almost always watch the movie while listening.
Favorite is probably still District 9 because of the way the discussion directly addressed the topics the film makers wanted to raise, in addition to the usual intelligent discussion of story, character, and effects.
(stuck in airports this evening, glad I have a Boingo account)
I don't know. I have a friend for whom Labyrinth was his favorite movie. When he said that (15 years ago, now), I was like, "What? Seriously?" For me it was always one of those forgettable fantasy world movies like Legend and The Last Unicorn, and one that I always assumed was made for teenage girls.
Woohoo! I knocked two off my list this weekend and probably number 7 as well. I think just making the list galvanized me. So now my list is...
Schindler's List
There Will Be Blood
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Deliverance
Clerks
Any of Adam Sandler's biggest movies
I can't tell you how many times someone I'm working with has made an Adam Sandler reference, and I just go, "What?" And they go, "[gasp!] You've never seen Billy Madison/Happy Gilmore/The Water Boy/Big Daddy/The Wedding Singer?!"
Okay, here's my rewrite of the movie.
Open with the young Carl and Ellie sequence, but change the montage so that—like most couples—they have children, which derails their dreams, which include finding Muntz and his bird. When Ellie gets sick and dies, Carl looks thru her scrapbook and sees that, in Ellie's mind, they've let a wonderful life of adventures—all the things that seemed to be getting in the way. But she has left a couple of pages blank for that dream vacation to South America. Carl is inspired.
But Carl's grown son (Ratzenberger?) encourages him take a normal vacation and then move to a retirement home. Only Carl's grandson Russell—a scout with no merit badges—has faith in him. To make way for a new development, Carl's house will be professionally moved to the country (a vapid couple ["Hi! We're the Cameos!"] will use it as a vacation house).
Faced with failing Ellie and giving up his house, Carl starts a secret plan as the house is prepared for the move. When his children come to take him to the retirement home, Carl untethers his balloons and escapes in the house, only to find that Russell has stowed away.
They weather a storm, after which Carl gives Russell the grape soda merit badge. Reaching Venezuela, the two tether the house within sight of Paradise Falls. They meet Dug and then Alpha and then their master, Flint, a naturalist a little younger than Carl. They hit it off, but Flint soon turns on them accusingly. He is Muntz's son and has continued his father's obsession with the bird, which he says is now extinct, so he is searching for bones. The Spirit of Adventure is decrepit, now crewed by the former cabin boy, one old engineer, and a couple of Venezuelans (and few clumsy robots?). Carl and Russell flee to the house and fly it away. Muntz and his crew give chase as in the film, damage the house, and threaten them for interloping.
Carl and Russell land the damaged house next to the falls, where it looks like it will stay. Russell wants to continue the adventure, but Carl says it's no use; the bird is extinct. Russell runs off alone in the night. Carl goes after him in the morning, and the two stumble upon the bird (owing to the squeaking of Carl's hearing aid or maybe an idea Russell has). Flint, who has been spying on them, captures the bird. Dug is disgraced in the capture and attaches himself to Russell. When Dug discovers the bird has chicks, Russell insists on trying to save it. Carl dumps everything out the house to lighten it, and they go after the zeppelin. Ellie's chair falls over onto Carl's chair, seeming to embrace it.
Carl and Russell catch up to the Spirit of Adventure, and we proceed with the big action set piece, with the dogs in airplanes replaced by fights with the crew (clumsy robots?). When Muntz learns the bird has chicks, he relents, but it's too late: they're going to crash into Paradise Falls. Muntz redeems himself in saving them but dies when the relentless Alpha takes him down with him, slipping out of his now-comically-malfunctioning collar. Carl's house crashes next to the falls. The heroes put Alpha's collar on the bird, get her thanks and where to release her to her babies after taking photos and videos and collecting dropped feathers. The crew turns the ship for home.
Carl names the bird species pavo muntzellenius, the “Muntz-Ellie tropical peacock,” which naturalists can track via Alpha's collar. Russel gets his first merit badge for assisting the elderly but also gets several others for things he did on the adventure. In the end credits, Carl helps him get more badges.
It would help to introduce Flint earlier, maybe as a kid in the newsreels, but it would be tricky to preserve the secret for later and also not make it too much like Syndrome. Maybe Flint is actually the grown-up cabin boy instead of Muntz's son. Or maybe one of the crew members is an Iago type and becomes the real villain, and Muntz lives to redeem himself and his father's reputation.
I'll say also about Pixar's secret that the value of John Lasseter should not be underestimated. Hollywood puts teams together all the time, and sometimes you get lightning in a bottle. Pixar captured that and has kept using it over and over in a kind of mini studio system, cultivating talent internally. Lasseter is Louis B Mayer except he's also a creative genius as well as business savvy.
We saw in the late 80s that, without Steve Jobs, Apple is just another technology company. I think that Pixar, with John Lasseter and maybe Andrew Stanton and Pete Docter (who have all been together since Toy Story) is that kind of lightning in a bottle.
Good commentary, guys.
The early Pixar movie extras showed what I think is the Pixar secret sauce: the writers pitch ideas to each other over time (like years) in sessions led by the director, and what everyone agrees works and feels right is what stays. I think Dreamworks makes their animated movies more like regular movies: a couple of guys put a screenplay together, a few other people give them notes, and they go thru a few drafts until everyone is too tired to argue anymore. They don't collaborate as a team.
I liked Cars (I'm a car guy), but it is definitely the most thematically confused Pixar story. It's not just Doc Hollywood (city boy falls in love with the country and learns to slow down). It's also the archetypal apprentice story (kid with potential learns the secret to success from an old master--the first part of the monomyth). So the ending is like, "Now he has all the tricks he needs to win! Wax on, wax off, Daniel-san! But wait! There's more to life than winning! Chuck it all and live the quiet life, Doc Hollywood!"
Pretty much hated Shrek. Fiona was creepy and annoying. The Matrix/Robin Hood parody stuff was agony. The pop music was grating. The Shrek/Donkey relationship was all I cared about.
That AFI list is ok as a guide if you know nothing about movies but it's kinda silly.
Yeah. The AFI list is sort of the list of cultural touchstone movies that people expect you to have seen if you say you're a movie lover. I think most people on the DIF forums would be more embarrassed to say they haven't seen Road House or The Fifth Element.
This is something I got from Filmspotting, the terrific—if insufferably high-brow—film podcast. Top six movies you are embarrassed to admit you have never seen. (Why six? Well why five? Just because you've got five fingers on each hand? Racist.)
It's only fair that I start.
Schindler's List
There Will Be Blood
Up
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
First Blood
Deliverance
The DIF show list and AFI's top 100 may be of interest, but it's nothing to be embarrassed about if you haven't seen a movie because you're sure you won't like it (Gone With the Wind, maybe).
EDIT: EZ-Bake list code:
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[/list]Friends In Your Head | Forums → Posts by Zarban
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