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Friends In Your Head | Forums → Episodes → Brave
Despite it's problems, as far as Disney goes, Mulan is probably my favorite, followed closely by Lilo and Stitch.
Mulan 2 certainly is not perfect, but worth at least one watch.
I mostly cringe at the far more Western influences on both movies. So, I certainly understand that.
Cotterpin, as a story I agree that none of those are problems. As a narrative, or even as a feminist narrative I don't have an issue with them. But as a story consumed by young children, I don't like major parts of the messaging. The takeaway of Mulan can easily be read as "normally men are soldiers, but Mulan was an exception." The world of Mulan is one where all soldiers are men, for a while one woman was a very good soldier, but at the end we return to the status quo of all soldiers are men.
There is also some cultural insensitive stuff, and the fact that a woman in drag is a soldier, but a man in drag is a joke.
Nonetheless, I'm happy that my daughter has a Mulan poster on her wall. Mulan the character is a great hero. The positives clearly outweigh what I perceive as negatives.
I think any film you show to a child is going to have some aspect some parent somewhere is going to find objectionable. The notion that such films are going to be 'pure' is unrealistic. Also, kids often respond and draw messages differently from adults. In the case of Brave, a young girl is much more likely to take away the idea that she should listen to her parents, specifically her mother, and to cherish the time they have with each other, and not 'I'm a girl and therefore the world treats me unfairly'.
I totally hear what you're saying Cotterpin. I think, as redxavier points out, my issues are less about the movie and more about the world I want my child (and all other people) to live in. While I could nitpick further, but "is Mulan a great kids movie or only a very good one" is probably not a debate that warrants further hashing.
I feel like that's a "bring your own concrete" excuse to the movie being so broken. For an explanation as to why this is generally considered to be not good and how if accepted, it could start movies on a slippery slope, revisit WAYDM's Prometheus commentary.
I have far less issue with Little Mermaid than I do Twilight. As a father of 1 boy and soon to be another, all I can really offer this conversation is that Twilight is a movie I want to watch with my son to explain how NOT to deal with women (provided his orientation turns out to be hetero). I don't want my son thinking that the relationship between Edward and Bella is anywhere near normal or healthy, and that real love does not behave in the way articulated by those two.
Like Mike, I m not fully qualified to say Twilight is anti-feminist. I'm quite certain however, that Twilight promotes a version of romantic love that is completely toxic to all involved, and extraordinarily dangerous to both young men and women.
To be fair, most Hollywood movies promote a version of romantic love that, if not quite completely toxic, is at least unrealistic.
The extra problem with Twilight is that it's full of textbook red flags for an abusive relationship.
Well, I appreciate both Cotterpin Dozer's and Bathilda's perspective regarding this topic. While being male, that certainly does not mean I don't welcome other perspectives, or that somehow mine trumps all. Far from it. I always feel I have something to learn from other people's stories.
That being said, I read Bathilda's recommended article regarding Twilight and while I see the author's point of view, I certainly would not disparage Twilight because of the fact that it is a female fantasy, any more than I would disparage or dismiss a romantic novel. They may not be my genre or preferred book, but that hardly makes it worth diminishing.
However, I do agree that it is a poorly written story, with characters that are hollow, at best, and are difficult for me to connect to, or find any sort of relationship with them. And this is not just me, as CP pointed out. They are poorly written books that are regarded with great acclaim, and held as excellent works of fiction. I find that concerning, so I am cautious.
Now, I do not worry so much about my daughters finding strong female role models, because I am quite grateful to have several strong women, my mother included, to demonstrate to my girls what they can do. Movies and books provide a beginning dialog point, like Bathilda's dad did, and not the end.
From my perspective, it comes down to characters. Are the characters, male or female, people I can relate to or my daughters can relate to and can we learn something meaningful from them? That, for me, is the way to start a dialog in regards to media.
I am willing to attempt to understand the appeal of anything media related to women, from Twilight to Hunger Games. So, this discussion has proven to be very stimulating ![]()
Friends In Your Head | Forums → Episodes → Brave
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