Topic: The Dark Knight

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Re: The Dark Knight

I'm hard on this movie a lot, but I recently rewatched it and, yeah, it's not a bad movie. It's well made, well acted, and, well, just plain entertaining. I had a little disdain for it recently, but I think that's because I've watched it too many times. I mean, I've practically got the thing memorized. It's fair to say that I've gotten a bit sick of it.

Some stretches of the plot involving the Joker bug me a little, but I'm willing to overlook most of them. Overall, it's a excellent, if flawed, movie.

Also, I'll throw this in about the director. The thing that Trey (I think?) says about Fincher, how his movies have a cold piece of steel in place of a heart, I'd say about Nolan. This is a man who made an blockbuster action movie that was ultimately about corporate politics. His movies aren't meant to be felt, if that makes any sense. And that's not a bad thing, either. Just an observation.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: The Dark Knight

I don't really have much of an opinion on this one other than I just flat out love it. And apparently to most of the free world (And this community) that makes me a bad person.

So I'm intently curious as to how this one turns out.

(The main thing that confuses the hell out of me is the Plot hole mini gun that always gets leveled at this one by EVERYONE I ever try to talk to about it. And I just don't see them, at all. And even more curious I can never actual get any one to actually TELL ME what these supposed plot holes are.)

So who knows this might turn into a Phantom Menace thing with me.

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Re: The Dark Knight

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Dark Knight

I don't think the movie spends enough time on that plotline for that argument to be made. It's there, I can see where you're coming from, but them movie doesn't make it prevalent enough.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: The Dark Knight

Ah, the Dark Knight... I have a ton of issues with this film. A ton.


First, it's too damned long; it should have been two movies. I think it's supposed to be a subversion of the style "Oh you thought it was OVER, didya?" but it comes at the wrong time and place somehow.... IMHO.

2ndly, I hate the actress change with a passion. Chick from first movie == Way better

3rdly, Harvey Dent never worked for me on SO many levels. 1st, I'm not enough of a Batman Reader (couldn't care less kind of guy) to even "know" Harvey Dent == "Twoface" (I forgot this since seeing the old batman with Tommy-Lee Jones as Twoface), so maybe this would have played out better for someone pre-suspecting "this goody-two-shoes politician guy will turn to evil". I don't get, buy the "turn", even a little.... it totally, absolutely and 100% DOESN'T work for me even a little bit.

Coupled with that the weirdocity of the effect.... guys... he is missing half the face... you see his teeth. Here's an experiment; Pull the left side of your mouth open with your finger so you can see a bunch of teeth. Now speak menacingly with a deep barytone Evil Things like mr Twoface does. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! You'll MAYBE be able to audition for daffy duck with the face looking like that.

It's an awesome effect - mind you - but makes absolutely zero sense.

The Joker is good (but not as great as everyone wants to claim; I thikn this movie suffers from an enormous does of "Oh noes, the actor actually died, so we must be nice to him poshumously!!"), but any interaction between Joker and Batman is so 100% ruinied by the the stupid batman voice.

Yeah, 4th, the Batman voice? I'm like... W. T. F.?

And 5:th... cellphones as sonar? Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiggghhhht.


I personally MUCH prefer Batman Begins to TDK, I find it overlong, dull, unrealistic and the new actress looks/acts all wrong and is totally unrealistic as a love interest for Bruce. Yes, it has WAY better effects than "Begins" and "Begins" isn't without it's flaws (microwave rays that boil water but don't hurt people, consisting of 70% water? Rrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiggghht!!) but it's yet another case of "becoming is more interesting than being", IMHO.


I think Heath Ledgers untimely demise caused the cult status of this film, and not much that is actually in the film per se.


My 2 Swedish öre.


/Z

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7 (edited by Squiggly_P 2012-02-25 02:39:21)

Re: The Dark Knight

I think the Joker character's entire motivation is amazing. Instead of just trying to kill people or kill batman or anything mundane like that, he's trying to just incite chaos. At least, that's what you think, but in reality he's trying to get other people to do it for him. He's trying to get other people to do his dirty work for him. He turns the cops and the people on batman, he tries to get people to kill that guy on TV, he tries to get cops to kill his hostages, and he eventually gets Dent to go from an uncompromisingly moral, upstanding person to a guy who can shoot an unarmed innocent in the back without even blinking.

And that performance had so much to do with Ledger that it's nuts. I kinda wonder what sort of Joker another actor would have come up with, but a lot of that shit is Ledger. The scene where he kills that batman wannabe guy was shot by Ledger with a camcorder. I bet the fear coming out of that dude was fairly legit.

I would also compare Nolan's style to Fincher's. I dunno about The Dark Knight, but if you were to swap those directors out on Social Network and The Prestige, you probably would have ended up with very similar movies. Not just in the emotional distance, but also the execution, the general pace, the overall performance direction and the visuals. I know that goes a bit deeper than just 'directing', but both directors' films are pretty consistent in those aspects. I think Fincher used to be more inclined to put neat camera/editing tricks in his flicks, but lately he's backed off of that somewhat. Fincher is, I think, more confident with the camera and tries more experimental things in that regard than most directors, but he doesn't go apeshit with it. Not often, anyway.

Nolan's films are more workmanlike with a bit of flair here and there. His early stuff was - I think - actually shot/staged a bit better. Insomnia is one of my favorite films in terms of cinematography, and Memento did some visually interesting stuff. I would also say that Nolan's stuff has a bit more 'feeling' to them. Sometimes while watching a Fincher film, I feel like it's some kind of weird experiment where the characters are in a terrarium, and Fincher's just kinda poking at them to see what they'll do. Cold in a way, but not in a bad way. Objective, I guess. Nolan's films mostly feel a bit warmer, tho again, Insomnia is exactly the same way. Fuckin...  If you walked up to me and told me that Fincher had ghost-directed Insomnia, I would totally be able to buy that.

I might be the only person who doesn't hate the growly batman voice. Not really sure what else they could have done, really. Put on a Batman suit and affect your voice so people who know you won't recognize you. Your first instinct isn't going to be to pull an Elmo voice. It'll be to go lower. They may have gone too far, but it doesn't bother me so much. Same with Bane in the new trailer. I understood everything he said in the trailer, and I thought the vocal effect was cool as hell.

EDIT:

@MasterZap: You have a point with Dent's flip from not crazy to crazy being a bit sudden, but they do give him some interesting traits that lend themselves to his eventual... going overboard. He doesn't really turn 'evil' so much as he becomes something of a perverted batman himself. He's going after people he thinks are bad. He kills some dirty cops and a gangster. The ends justify the means, and people are guilty until proven innocent. He turns his back on the principles that he followed up to that point - the principles he believed got his fiance killed and him horribly fucked up.

Maybe not the best cause or reaction, but it's WAY better than most of the other two-face stories ever done, especially as far as origins go. In the comic and third film from the last series, Dent gets some acid thrown on his face, and he just goes nuts for some reason. I don't read a hell of a lot of comics, but I've read more batman than any other superhero book, and this is the best two-face story I've ever seen.

And I totally forgot about the cell phone radar thing. That and the 'spying on people is bad, but just this once is OK' thing at the end felt really wrong to me as well. It's like they were trying to make a statement about something and then they immediately undermined that statement.

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8 (edited by BigDamnArtist 2012-02-25 02:06:30)

Re: The Dark Knight

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Dark Knight

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Re: The Dark Knight

Nolan doesn't like to tell stories, he likes to play games.

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Re: The Dark Knight

I never had a problem with his voice. Ever.

So you sir, are WRONG.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Dark Knight

Dark Knight - slick seductive movie constructed with typical Nolan chutzpah, but must I admit it's a neocon wet dream.

Baddies are just evil i.e. element force of nature. No context. Who cares why they're evil? No chance of rehabilitation. Don't even bother with due process of law, which is impotent and corrupt. Just blow them away if you can.
And it contains a ringing endorsement for Dubya's Patriot Act.

Also:
The 'Prisoner Dilemma' game theory with the ferries was a cop-out as it didn't follow it's own rules.

The Joker is omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient (including into the future), and is always 10 steps ahead of the others. Fridge logic reminds one that it's highly unlikely anyone can predict others so far ahead. But the movie is paced so rapidly that you are seduced along for the ride at the time.

Don't forget to mention the iconic Zimmer score! Rehashed for Inception and copied for Tron Legacy and a dozen other films.

not long to go now...

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Re: The Dark Knight

For a while after it came out, I was totally in love with The Dark Knight. I had followed the production intensely, got involved in he viral marketing (and still have the free shit to prove it) and I was just totally amped for it. I saw it at a midnight showing, and again a week later, and I was just crazy about it. But four years later... It's still a very good movie, I think. But personally, I've cooled on superheroes. So there's a loss of luster there. It's far from the masterpiece I initially thought, and I've just lost most of my enthusiasm for it.

But also, upon rewatch, it doesn't hold up so well in comparison to its predecessor. I find myself much preferring Batman Begins. Begins is a very good movie that goes off the rails a bit in the third act. All of The Dark Knight is better than act three of Begins, but nothing in it hits the same highs as the first two-thirds of Begins. I have much the same feelings about the Iron Man movies, actually. Though specifically with Dark Knight, the Joker is better than the movie he's in. I think Heath Ledger deserved every bit of praise he got, and not just because they carted his naked ass out of a hotel room shortly before the release. He created a really interesting character that was straight out of the comics while also startlingly different from the Nicholson and Hamill portrayals.

One of the biggest downsides of The Dark Knight for me, though, are the visuals. If you just look at the film... It's Heat with DeNiro and Pacino in silly costumes. Gotham City is just Chicago, and that's lame. It's a flat, boring-looking movie with an obnoxious blue tint. Which is especially egregious because Begins is so beautiful. It's got atmosphere, there's a very film noir vibe to the photography in that film, and it makes Gotham feel so much more alive to me. Dark Knight needed the Narrows so hard.

And if I'm nit-picking more, Danny Elfman is a much better Batman composer than Hans Zimmer, who I've never cared for, and TDK underutilized the treasure that is Cillian Murphy.

As far as Batman's voice, I didn't have any problem understanding him in Dark Knight. That said, I prefer the Begins voice. Can't understand a damn word that's come out of Bane's mouth so far, though...

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Re: The Dark Knight

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Re: The Dark Knight

Just a mini comment - I found the Two Face cgi distracting because it looked like a slight thwack on the back of his head would cause that eye to pop out  wink

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16 (edited by C-Spin 2012-02-25 07:42:42)

Re: The Dark Knight

Jeffery, that was an interesting read. I must say, I disagree with you entirely, but it was interesting nevertheless. Your proposed Batman film doesn't sound too far removed from what... Was it the Wachowskis who were working on a Year One thing? I know Aronofsky was involved at some point, and wanted him to be like a guy in plastic sporting armor who was called Batman because he hit people with a bat or something.

And I would watch that movie. I would watch your movie too... If it weren't a Batman movie. It'd be an interesting, unique entry into the superhero film genre, but it would not be a Batman movie.

Also, I don't think it took balls for Nolan and co to keep The Dark Knight light on Batman. There were four previous movies that did the very same thing.

EDIT - Funny thing, one of my closest friends is named Jeffery, and he's the only person I know who spells it e-r-y, so I'm constantly having to remind myself that it's usually spelled Jeffrey when I write it out. Screwed myself over this time...

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Re: The Dark Knight

I love The Dark Knight, but it does have problems. It's overlong, Batman isn't given quite enough to do, I hate the whole Rachel Dawes subplot (Batman is a billionaire playboy and a loaner), and Harvey Dent is uninteresting to me. However, I do like how the movie plays Dent off Batman: with a good man as DA, Gotham doesn't need Batman.

I watched it recently and fell in love all over again with Heath Ledger's Joker. It's just an amazing performance. Anyone who says the praise is undeserved is insane. I love Alfred and Lucius Fox. The Hong Kong extraction is great, if somewhat out of place. The Batvoice doesn't bother me at all.

Never liked the Tumbler, tho.

Re: The Dark Knight

Re: The Dark Knight

Yeah, the Batvoice never bothered me at all. So he changes his voice as part of the disguise, so what? Batman doesn't talk a whole lot anyway, not when he doesn't have to at least.

The only plot holes I can ever find have to do with the Joker's actions. He claims that he never has a plan, but everything always manages to work out in his favor somehow. A few times in the film, his powers of perception become a bit unrealistic. However, that said, I don't buy it when people claim the film is "riddled with plot holes".

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: The Dark Knight

The Voice never bothered me. The only thing that ever bothered me was how could the 500 people on the boat could vote and tally the votes, in under 15mins.

"Life is about movies; anything else is a bonus!"- Me   cool

21 (edited by oTom 2012-02-25 10:47:42)

Re: The Dark Knight

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23 (edited by Squiggly_P 2012-02-25 13:21:02)

Re: The Dark Knight

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Re: The Dark Knight

I must admit, I left TDK with only two real thoughts. First, Joker's continually changing story was borrowed from one of the best animated episodes, Mad Love (where we see how a prison psychologist falls in love with the Joker and becomes Harley Quinn), which I found fun. Second... damn it, what is it with killing off villains?!? I honestly was hoping the entire point of naming this movie was setting up an actual adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns, and they go and kill off Two Face.

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Re: The Dark Knight

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