This is only me hazarding a guess, but I would speculate that it's because Emperor's New Groove is slapsticky where Up is not. You can get away with a lot more when you go slapstick but you pay for that latitude by lessening the amount of emotional investment you audience will make in your story.

The greater the sense that what they're watching is "real," the greater the emotional investment the audience is willing to make. Slapstick, while potentially entertaining, takes away from that potential.

"A lot" is two separate words.

Thank you for your ever so thought providing and interesting addition to the conversation at hand there Greg. And I've spelt it both ways since childhood and no one has ever told me either was wrong (Except you) so I'll continue to use both, thank you very much.

And besides, ALOT, looks a whole lot prettier than, A LOT, you've just got an extra space in there gumming up the works and detracting from the full oomf of the all caps style.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2010-05-20 06:12:06)

Hmm, alright. I guess it must've been...Trey, maybe? Who said that the Madagascar one took him out of it.

Anyways.

So I take you would pretty much just sum everything I said in the last 6 paragraphs of text as a an aesthetic choice to be made by the director? (Attempting to read between the lines of a rather short post to, what I thought, was a rather interesting question. But then I am quite often wrong on these types of things.)

Brian again speaks for me on this issue.

Also, "a lot."

EDIT: And while we're at it, "never mind." That's just one of virtually hundreds of two-word expressions and terms that people connect with a hyphen or a lack of a space that makes me shift uncomfortably in my chair.

This is the part I don't quite fully buy into. I think that we as a culture of movie goers have become familiar enough with the concept of 3D movies (meaning any sixth grader could tell 5 different programs to make a 3D movie of his own, and has probably tried). So I think that we automatically "know" going into a 3D movie that what are are going to see will not real. This is of course assuming we're talking about Pixar/Dreamworks type stuff, not Avatar or stuff trying to be "Photoreal".

So we as an audience will always have that voice at the back of our mind (Even if it's not completely conscious) that is telling us that what we are seeing is fake.

So why are we constantly trying to make 3D movies more "real" when the audience already knows that it isn't and they aren't expecting it to be. And as I've already stated the "slapstickiness" has never really impeded my ability to connect with the characters in any good 2D film I've seen. So why would it impede in a 3D film?

Obviously I'm exaggerating my views for the purpose of this discussion (I have alot of respect for Pixars restraint), but I've just always been confused by this mentality of a lot of 3D films I've seen to keep it realistic and bound by "physics".

Basically I'm wondering, why isn't there a New Groove in 3D? (...you get what I mean.) Or at least, why isn't there more of it?

I gotta say, this whole sarcasm thing really doesn't work on the internet.*

*Refer to the Alien 3 thread for further proof

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2010-05-20 06:51:33)

Right, but a zoom in a 3D movie - in terms of rendering or presentation - feels like your perspective moving. In a cartoon, it seems like a transition.

I don't really understand the difference even in a classically done film there will still be a certain amount parralax when a dolly forward is done (ala the very first shot in New Groove in fact), if it's done correctly at least.

The only difference I can see between the dolly in in New Groove and the one in Madagascar (other than distance traveled) is that the 3D one will have more "realistic" (I hesitate to use that word, but it's the best one I can come with right now) interaction with the environment and characters?

So by that concept, it is the very nature of 3D films that prohibits them from this kind of a style.

Well this is the part where I admit I have no issue with the type of camera move used in Madagascar or any film like that (As long as it fits with the style of the rest of the movie as Brian has pointed out multiple times.) I think that it is a style that can work equally effectively in a 3D environment as it has in 2D for decades. But everything I've gotten from you guys so far has been trying to tell me that it can't, and I still don't get why.*

*of course this could very easily be due to the overwhelming ability to miss the obvious that seems to be a particular specialty of mine

This kinda goes back to what i was saying before, but if we were talking about live action, I would be completely on board with you 100 percent, but we aren't, we are talking about obviously not real, highly stylized cartoon characters. So automatically the audience is clued into the fact that what they are about to see is not real. I can understand trying to limit the "slapstickiness" in an attempt to create a style (ala Pixar), but I don't but it as a legitimate excuse to not do the more slapsticky "2D" style in a 3D medium.

But I do understand what you mean about trying to limit the slapstick, to try and heighten the emotional connection. But I don't buy that it needs to be like that in order for 3D to make an impact emotionally.

Well I guess I have lisented to the conversation more recently than you have, but I believe what you said was basically "It's starts a million miles out and zooms into thier feet. There is no way a shot like that could exsist in real life, it draws attention to itself as a fake thing, so it draws you out of the movie." That was the basic idea of what you were saying at least.

But anyways, I'm just sort of using the camera movement as a proxy for that style of film making I guess and the 2 camera movements were an easy comparison.

Well I guess thats where this whole thing started, is where does it cross the line from becoming a "gimmick" to being part of the style of the movie/ using your medium to create unique/cool shots that help tell the story

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2010-05-20 07:36:55)