Re: Best / Worst of 2013

Yeah, I probably bring a lot of my own concrete to that, but I do that with every film, so it it isn't new for me.

ST 09 and ID build off of potential I see in TOS but are unexplored. For me, there is not an expectation that Kirk behave like Kirk in the sense that he is controlled or disciplined or experienced the way that Shatner Kirk is. To me, that is unreasonable because they are not exactly a one to one correlation. The personality is similar, as noted in I think the Wrath of Khan Commentary, where Kirk can take a punch and keep grinning. Spock can take in a situation without the emotional involvement, unless it gets more personal. There are several instances in TOS and the movies that revolve around that.

It might be unearned but the characters speak to me in a way that is more realistic than many of the other Star Trek series have. It is strictly personal but it is a reason I am some supportive of the movie is that there is a message that carries further than the action set pieces.

God loves you!

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102

Re: Best / Worst of 2013

Just saw HER and yup...that movie completely knee capped me.  Absolutely cracks my top 5, realistically right at number 2.  Still processing parts of it, but I think it's time for me to start recognizing Spike Jonze as one of my favorite directors.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

For the next hour, everything in this post is strictly based on the available facts.

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

The problem is that the broad portrayal of the villains is totally at odds with the gritty realism of the world. Elysium is supposed to be ruled by these cold, calculating monsters, but nothing they do is actually like that.

Also, while the movie tells us that they don't care about humans at all, there are a lot of details that directly contradict this. For instance, why would they bother keeping extensive records about humanity if they didn't care about humanity? Why would they have a bay full of drone ships that are programmed to automatically carry tons of med-pods down to earth if they didn't care about earth? The movie tries to have its cake and eat it too, and it doesn't even fit with the established world.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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105 (edited by avatar 2014-01-30 08:39:44)

Re: Best / Worst of 2013

We just learned in the last week that just 85 people have the combined wealth of the bottom 50% (3.5 billion) people.
I agree with sellew - many of the mega-wealthy would rather buy their 50th vintage car, gold-plate their taps, fly by interior-designed private jet, etc than lift a finger to help the poorest realize their own opportunities. We still see millions dying of preventable diseases. If you looked at the spending behind FIYH's malaria-athon choice of charity, it's quite easy to save lives, but we in the west don't do it enough. Bill Gates is trying, as are a few others (e.g. eradication of polio) but for every virtuous philanthropist, there's the Koch Brothers or Rupert Murdoch.

not long to go now...

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

For the next hour, everything in this post is strictly based on the available facts.

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

But that ISN'T real life. In REAL LIFE resources are limited and people hoard them and cling to their possessions because they see it as a zero-sum game. To reduce it to "dicks for no reason" makes the movie NOT an exploration of our real world circumstances, which makes it a failure of science fiction.

EDIT: I mean, the example given of "Sure, sometimes you get a Bill Gates or Warren buffet, but" -- but in ELYSIUM the one guy setting up this system is all you need. There were NONE of them on Elysium? Can't buy it. Stories are about the human experience, you can't populate them with completely inhuman characters.

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109

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110

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Maybe someone had a plan to have a die-off on Earth to get the population down, and it's not working. "If we can get the population down to one billion, we can do something with the place. Deny them health care! Wait... you mean they're still reproducing, but now are just suffering a lot? Well, that's egg on our face!"

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

Yeah, I think it's ultimately a question of having to agree to disagree.  I completely accept that I'm giving the film more of a pass than I otherwise would because it tells me what I want to hear.

However, I think it's too strong to say it's a failure of science fiction though, since I think science fiction can equally be about taking some aspect of our real world circumstances to its logical conclusion.  The argument is (on my reading) that our real life mega-wealthy of right now, today, simply don't fucking give a toss about anyone or anything (except protecting what they have and amassing more) and that point is made by describing a future society in which that characteristic is shared by everyone.  These characters may be completely "inhuman", but that's because the mega-wealthy are inhuman in precisely that sense, so the claim would go.  And it's underlining the injustice of that attitude by making it literally unnecessary in-universe.  (And, by that, further suggesting that the mega-wealthy of today could provide needed help at a negligible-to-them, effectively zero cost, and they, like everyone in Elysium, choose not to.)     

And I completely agree that that induces a kind of dramatic failure.  We the audience aren't (in general) psychopaths, utterly incapable of empathy for anyone who is Not Us.  But if indeed the film is sacrificing drama to make that political point, I think it's a vaguely bold move.  But, again, that's because it's playing to my prejudices.

For the next hour, everything in this post is strictly based on the available facts.

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

Re: Best / Worst of 2013

Then again, we have real life examples of people doing just this (on a smaller scale) on a religious grounds. One of the worst person of modern time, mother Theresa had money and resources practically thrown at her to help her "angels". She withheld these resources from the children she was claiming to help. She believed in suffering.

If the motives of the Elysians were religious I would have bought it.

---------------------------------------------
I would never lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation.

Re: Best / Worst of 2013

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

not long to go now...

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

The villains could have gotten away with being broad caricatures if the rest of the world was just as broad. But it isn't. It's a very realistically gritty world, and cartoonish bad guys don't fit into that at all. It's a major disconnect.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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117 (edited by Dorkman 2014-01-30 17:38:01)

Re: Best / Worst of 2013

^

If ELYSIUM is trying to be some kind of satire, it's doing a poor job of it. If it's trying to be serious, it's doing a poor job of that, too.

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118 (edited by bullet3 2014-01-30 20:12:25)

Re: Best / Worst of 2013

Ya, it's like the scenes with the bad guys are from a Paul Verhoeven heightened satire like Total Recall (except lame and much less fun to watch) , and the rest of the movie is trying to be Blade Runner or Children of Men.
Doesn't work at all.

I'd still forgive that if there was a single memorable action sequence. Dredd had 1/3 the budget and delivered on everything this movie fails at.

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

Oh my god, Verhoeven's ELYSIUM.

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not long to go now...

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For the next hour, everything in this post is strictly based on the available facts.

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Re: Best / Worst of 2013

Finally saw Elysium, I found it refreshing in that it wasn't facepalmingly stupid and incoherent like most other films of its kind (though some of the fight scenes were filmed terribly). Started off strongly (though I do have questions about the worldbuilding) with an interesting twist on the protagonist, and then ended rather unsatisfyingly with its 'everything is now magically ok' climax. Had they established more of the whys and whys nots, and had a more measured resolution which didn't feel quite as much like a wave of light sweeping over the dark landscape ala TRON, I would have liked it more.

I could also have done without the million flashbacks.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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