You guys kinda gloss over this, so I'm gonna drop it in the thread: does anyone have any idea what a 'Double Y correctional facility' is? Women are XX, men are XY. What is YY?

And I totally disagree that killing off the Aliens characters was a bad choice. I love that every Alien movie wipes the slate (aside from Ripley) of the previous one. Just because Cameron's Alien movie was awesome doesn't mean the next film has to be tied to it.

I was in no way distracted for the first act waiting for Hicks and Newt to be still alive. They told us they were dead, so OK, they were dead. We then watch a movie dealing with Ripley being as surprised and saddened as we were.

I'll admit that Alien 3 has its problems, but starting with a gut shot—oh crap there's still a live Alien, and it killed most of our leads—is perfect.

Also: you guys need to do Serenity.

Just for you Greg.

The Double-Y Chromosome stereotype, debunked since 1968

This will be interesting to revisit. I haven't seen it since I walked out of the theater at the end in 1992, disappointed. I was hot for another Aliens, as was the entire rest of the world, and Fincher was clearly trying to shift the tone again. But it didn't help that this was yet another film that starts out by saying, "You know how the previous film ended? Yeah, I'm throwin' that out."

Last edited by Zarban (2010-04-26 03:25:10)

Not on my screen, it shows Star Trek as the latest.

Tried that already, Star Trek is still latest. And yes, I tried a hard refresh, a couple times, no luck.

Last edited by ShadowDuelist (2010-04-26 03:39:09)

I'm inclined to think, in the main page description, you mean "left behind and forgotten."

Nah, remembered. As in, merely remembered. Phantom Menace gets forgotten, this is just not revisited by normal folk.

Yup.

Looking again, I agree with you.

That's not exactly what we took issue to.  Trey and I were of the opinion that if you want to kill Newt and Hicks, fine.  But don't do it pre credits, and off camera.  It felt rushed, and it gained ud little.  And while Ripley was sad, she sure got to boning very quickly.  It was this odd series of choices that just felt incongruent with what the first two movies established.  There are ways to do your own movie while not ignoring the films that came before  The Harry Potter franchise does this very well. 

My whole thing is if you're going to kill Newt, Hicks, and Bishop, have it count for something, and use it to tell the story.  Like Trey rightfully pointed out, If the ship just ejected Ripley out of the Sulacco, the rest of the movie doesn't change at all.  Its not that they died thats the issue, its that their death was a missed opportunity.

^ My pleasure.

Chad reminded me of the Gibson script, so I've gone ahead and found (I think) all the other proposed scripts, as well as a couple other resources. 

Wiki article on the various writers

Excellent breakdown of the writing process with links to the following scripts by:

William Gibson
Eric Red
David Twohy
John Fasano, based on Vincent Ward's story
Walter Hill and David Giler rewrote the script after Ward left production, and Rex Pickett did a rewrite after David Fincher was brought on

The "final" draft is credited to Giler and Hill, and most closely resembles what appears in the Assembly Cut.  In editing at least 40 minutes hit the editing room floor for the theatrical cut.

Mayhew, which DVD do you have? To my knowledge Fincher has never done a DVD commentary, but I'd certainly like to hear that.

In other news, I can't seem to find Elliot Goldenthal's score anywhere online (at least not, ya know, legit).  Not on Amazon or iTunes; real shame, great score.

Also I came across some details regarding the (eventual) Blu-ray release box set of the four films.

And hopefully it's good news, but Ridley Scott says his next two (that's right TWO) projects will be Alien prequels. Here, and here (care of www.collider.com).

Oh yeah, and they'll be in 3D...

Okay, so I promised you guys retribution for your sins … but then you went and gave a very moderate, even forgiving commentary.

Dang.

Here's my thing, though. Pretty much everything you guys said you disliked about the movie, I love about the movie. I even loved the fact that Newt and Hicks were killed. I even loved the way they were killed!

I get where you guys are coming from; you think it was maybe an okay movie, maybe even a good one, but that you didn't like it as an Alien movie. I can see that. But I don't agree with it. I think it was an exemplary Alien movie.

See, in my opinion, the Alien movies all use the alien as a blank canvas and project some primal truth about life onto it. (I'm not counting Resurrection here; if anything, I'd say that one is the one that doesn't belong in the set.)

The first Alien was very much about rape, thematically. Rape, penetration, violation, subjugation, whatever you want to call it; it's the theme of the movie. The fact that Ripley ended up being a woman and the alien ended up being sheathed in phallic imagery — while I doubt either of those was on the page — didn't hurt this interpretation any.

The second movie was about motherhood. Ripley's daughter, Newt's mom, Newt herself, the queen; every aspect of the movie revolves in some way around motherhood.

The third film is about death. Everything revolves around death, and what it means, and how we react to it. Newt and Hicks die off-screen, while Ripley's asleep and can't do anything about it; that's the capriciousness of death. Bishop asks Ripley to deactivate him; Ripley asks Dylan to kill her. That's seeking to control death. The prisoners are all rapists, yes, but also murderers. And they turn to God, the ultimate symbol of power over death. Hell, even Ripley's love interest is a murderer. And just in case you weren't catching on, the first and third acts of the film both end with funerals.

Alien 3 is a powerfully thematic movie. Maybe even more so than the first two, frankly; everything in the movie, practically every shot in the movie, serves the theme. Cause of that, I think it fits in perfectly with the rest of the series. If anything, in that respect … I think it's the best of the series. Not most entertaining, not best-made, not favorite. But on the scale of what's-a-theme to everything-is-symbolic, I think Alien 3 scores highest of all of the movies in the series.

Lemme just say this, then I'll stop being pretentious as hell. I think Alien 3 is a mature monster movie. In an immature monster movie, the audience is expected to care very deeply about who is and who is not going to die. But in a mature monster movie, the audience is expected to know that everyone's going to die, and to care deeply about how they die. Alien 3 is a mature monster movie because Ripley's death was inevitable from the first frame, but the story emerges from how she chooses to go out.

Anyway. That's how I see it, for what that's worth.