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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

I'm not sure what we do now.   Discuss? Cry?

I'm still trying to figure out how in the hell they crammed all that content into an almost normal sized episode and still had long setup scenes like at Gretchen and Elliot's house. 

That daydream that Jesse had was an amazing intro to that scene. 

Every storyline they wrapped up I had Trey's voice in my head "of course that's how this is supposed to go."


Oh yeah and:

Raven wrote:

If this weren't the series finale, I could see a ragtag group of Walt, Badger and Skinny Pete assaulting the compound to rescue Jesse. THose guys are way too funny to fit into a series finale, in this context anyway.

I hate to quote myself but for a second I thought  "....maybe?"

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

Let's go ahead and get this out of the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4zRe_wvJw8

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

Rob wrote:

Let's go ahead and get this out of the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4zRe_wvJw8

I'm sure Teague was very excited.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

So I'll first say that Trey totally called using Elliot and Gretchen to get his money to his family. The fact that he went back to get his cash seemed like a long shot to me, but I guess it's believable. And the trip back was utterly not about "vengeance" as I saw it, but completely about "redemption", which I guess is a more traditional way to end the tale. Considering that they generally have gone against the grain and everyone from the show talked about how brutal the end was, I guess I felt they wouldn't go so cut and dry.

I feel like once I look at this finale in the context of the whole series, It will seem like a fitting end...but honestly, immediately afterwards I felt a little disappointed.

Raven wrote:

Every storyline they wrapped up I had Trey's voice in my head "of course that's how this is supposed to go."

Sort of illustrates my point.

From previous comments it may have seemed like I was looking for a non-stop action scene, but while that isn't the case, I also wouldn't have thought that the first 3/4 of the episode would be dedicated to Walt simply making a mends and still having to figure stuff out. It lacked impact and didn't have a lot of tension mostly because it felt a bit like it was going through the motions, just buttoning up.


It actually feels like the show ended with a pair of 2-parters...To'hajiilee & Ozymandias were the climax/finale, with Granite State & Felina acting almost like an epilogue.

Those are initial reactions, and I imagine are likely to change. I'll see how I feel after it's sunk in a bit and maybe after some more viewings.

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Rob wrote:

Let's go ahead and get this out of the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4zRe_wvJw8

At first I thought Todd recorded a song for his own ringtone since the quality was kinda lacking.  lol

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/191po9lrzwlijjpg/ku-medium.jpg

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

So in the end, Walt used Jesse's idea.

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

I can't believe they never had a meth lab explosion anywhere in the series after setting it up and then doing a callback to it in Ozymandius.

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

well the superlab kinda blew up.

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

Kyle Monroe wrote:

So in the end, Walt used Jesse's idea.

Jesse saved him, and he saved Jesse.

Oh my god, he died saving Jesse. He could have gone for cover but he shielded Jesse instead.

I'll be over here sobbing inconsolably.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

The final bit of the episode was Jesse's fantasy, just like the woodworking. In reality, Walt took the M60 to the safehouse to bust out Huell instead, the two then skipped town to go find Kuby for a round of beers.

Deal with it.

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

Amazing — Jack has an El Camino on his compound! (Was that a big-block?)

I have no major complaints. It was always a dark story. It ended darkly. The little nod to Taxi Driver at the end — the overhead shot of the cops coming upon the scene of our almost-dead antihero and the corpses he left in his wake — was essentially the tone Cranston hinted that the show would go out on.

Jack didn’t let Hank finish his last sentence, so Walt not letting that shitbag Nazi finish his final tough guy act was fitting. It's the closest thing to justice Hank gets. (Besides Marie getting to give him a proper burial.) 

Jesse getting away in that El Camino made me smile. Poor kid had been putting the lotion in the basket for fuck knows how many chilly nights in Todd's dungeon. Maybe Brock gets a loving legal guardian now. Or at least he'll get his Mario Kart buddy back every once in a while.

“I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. I was alive.” That was always obvious for five seasons, but Walt's admitting it out loud to Skyler made for one of the best scenes in the whole series. That moment was almost required — it's no kind of ending if you don't have some version of that scene. And they nailed it.

“The two best hitmen west of the Mississippi.”  lol

http://ih2.redbubble.net/image.12819500.0281/fc,220x200,forest.jpg

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

Well.  Darn it, it occurred to me two days ago that Walt could give his own money to Gretchen and have her pass it to his family...but I didn't post it so I can't claim the points for that.  smile

So, I was kinda in the ballpark as far as what happened, but not so much on the motivations for it.  Walt keeping his anger toward Gretchen and basically demanding she do his laundering was better than the contrite Walt I predicted.   He did McGyver something to take out the Aryans, but didn't use the DEA to help get the job done.   

But what they did do in the episode worked, and I have no complaints about any of it.

Except. 

The fricking Stevia.   

It's terribly unclear to me how Walt managed to get the dose to Lydia - she was clearly already holding the first packet in her hand when he arrived at the table.   I suppose the idea is Walt put the dosed packet in one of the other sugar holders on another table...?   But how wobbly a plan is THAT?   

Especially if Lydia didn't end up picking that packet...now there's a lethal sugar packet sitting in a restaurant just waiting to kill some random person.   Even if we were to argue that Walt doesn't care about that (I think he would - he's never been about killing randomly, just people who do him harm), it's just a sloppy plan to leave the ricin behind and assume Lydia gets it.

I'm especially attuned to this because Penn and Teller in one of their books had a great magic trick that involved forcing the mark to pick a sugar packet off the table, including how to make sure they take it, and what to do if they don't.  smile

But overall... the ending worked, it was appropriate, and didn't overreach and turn into a Michael Bay splode fest.    Strong work all around.

Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

There was only one Stevia packet in the holder at that table. Hence, "I'm going to need another packet of Stevia."

And I guess that's a table she used with Walt a lot. He knew she'd be there at 10:00 - she's into routines, or whatever he said - and probably loaded the ricin at 9:55, and sat over in the corner so as not to be noticed when she walked in.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

But this time it wasn't the same table she's always used in the past - every other meeting has been by the windows.   

Also he's been gone for, what, six months or more?   Enough of a stretch that he can still catch them meeting at this place at all, much less know which table she'll pick.

Not a dealbreaker, just a weak link in an episode that crossed all its t's nicely otherwise.

Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

I think it was the same table as before. If not literally, we're meant to understand that it is. I'm more interested in how Walt got the ricin in the packet.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

I'll agree that the Lydia meeting was a little weaker than I'd hoped but I love that Lydia is the one who got the ricen.  There's something wonderful about someone who has such a hair trigger on eliminating threats, being forced to spend the last day of her life knowing she's going to die and being able to do nothing about it.  She was similar to Walt in her ability to talk her way out of things and that's just not gonna help this time.

I loved that Badger and Skinny Pete got a scene.  I started laughing when he said the "2 best hit-men" line.  For some reason I knew it was gonna be those 2, either that or Huell and Bill Burr.  Honestly, I would have been upset if it had gone the other way.  Badger especially needed to be in the finale. 

I liked the framing on the conversation with Skyler.  Hiding Walt while she was on the phone was a nice touch but having the frame split down the middle by that column was a nice way to show that they were no longer "together."  Given all the situations Walt got himself into, I disagree with the "I was good at it" portion of the "I did everything for me" section of their conversation.  His pride still has him seeing only the best in what he's done, even while finally acknowledging that his motivations weren't 100% pure after all.  And the Holly and Flynn goodbyes, were both emotional in completely separate ways.  It's a shame that both children will have horrible or no memories of their father, especially the way Walt started the series.

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

I wonder how long Jesse can last on the run. He's a wanted fugitive. No money. Not a hardened criminal mastermind. Just a highly strung out kid.

Maybe he finds a bag of Todd's cash in the car. That'll buy him some time.

Or maybe he's captured by the Czech cartel and made to work. Stayed tuned for Season 6 - Prague Nights.

not long to go now...

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

avatar wrote:

I wonder how long Jesse can last on the run. He's a wanted fugitive. No money. Not a hardened criminal mastermind. Just a highly strung out kid.

Maybe he finds a bag of Todd's cash in the car. That'll buy him some time.

Or maybe he's captured by the Czech cartel and made to work. Stayed tuned for Season 6 - Prague Nights.

Didn't you see the commercial? They're making a Breaking Bad movie called "Need For Speed." Looks different though. More car racing and less meth making.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Rob wrote:

“I did it for me. I liked it. I was good at it. I was alive.” That was always obvious for five seasons, but Walt's admitting it out loud to Skyler made for one of the best scenes in the whole series. That moment was almost required — it's no kind of ending if you don't have some version of that scene.

Agreed. Either Walt needed to say it, or someone needed to call him out on it. We got both, as Skyler (either her or Marie had to be the one) started to call him out on it, then he admitted it himself. Solid closure and a bit of a kick in the face to those that have defended Walt all this time as "he was doing it for his family", using the same twisted rationalization as he was.

Trey wrote:

But this time it wasn't the same table she's always used in the past - every other meeting has been by the windows.   
Also he's been gone for, what, six months or more?   Enough of a stretch that he can still catch them meeting at this place at all, much less know which table she'll pick.
Not a dealbreaker, just a weak link in an episode that crossed all its t's nicely otherwise.

I'll have to re-watch that scene, but I thought it was the same table as usual.

My thing about that scene was that there was no reason for Walt to interact with them at all. He could have been sitting in the background, we could have gotten a little meaningless "update" conversation from Lydia & Todd, then at some point she sips her tea and Walt leaves quietly. It would take up slightly less screen time, and would be just as effective. In fact, there'd be some irony in that she would die via such a "hands off" approach that she's normally on the other end of. A little line between her and Todd would also explain why she was calling him later that evening, too.

Walt shows up at the camp and the guards draw guns and say "who the fu---oh, holy shit it's you!" a quick radio to Jack and he's let in, makes his pitch about a new method directly to Jack, and bam you're back at the same scene in the clubhouse as before.

Again, the scene wasn't terrible or anything, but very few times have I been watching BB and thought "There could have been a better way to handle this..." The fact that it happened in the finale was a bit of a bummer.

Also...was I the only one that thought the "I need to show him we're not partners with Jesse" felt a little contrived? Maybe it was because I was already a little disappointed with the episode so far, but I was fine with the convenient Charlie Rose interview, but this one bothered me. //shrug

Doctor Submarine wrote:

I'm more interested in how Walt got the ricin in the packet.

The same way he got it into Brock's juice at school? tongue

Raven wrote:

I liked the framing on the conversation with Skyler.  Hiding Walt while she was on the phone was a nice touch but having the frame split down the middle by that column was a nice way to show that they were no longer "together."

Agreed! I especially liked how the column was just huge in the frame. It occupied nearly all the space between them. It wasn't subtle at all, and it shouldn't have been.

avatar wrote:

I wonder how long Jesse can last on the run. He's a wanted fugitive. No money. Not a hardened criminal mastermind. Just a highly strung out kid.

What is Jesse a wanted fugitive for? He was busted earlier in the season for throwing the cash out of the window, but other than that, he's basically clean. The DEA never found the tape (I guess they could find it at the Nazi camp? Loose end) and with Walt dead on the floor of the Nazi lab, I imagine all the blue meth Jesse was making for Jack's crew would get pinned on Walt.

As far as I can tell, Jesse is getting away relatively clean.

Two final thoughts:

First...Felina was directly tied to the song "El Paso" by Marty Robbins. This was predicted by Andi Teran over at http://previously.tv/breaking-bad/break … explained/

Some of his predictions are off, but "El Paso" was the song playing in the car Walt stole, and it what he was singing to himself while building his garage door opener of doom.

Second, and lastly (for now)...

Can anyone explain how Walt got shot exactly? He was laying face down on Jesse, yet seemed to be shot in the stomach. If he was shot in the back, it would have meant the bullet had to go all the way through and would have hit Jesse. But being shot in the front while laying face down on top of Jesse seems rather unlikely.

It's a bit of a nit-pick, I guess...but BB is generally so good at details like this. I mean, to have Walt go out by some random ricochet and a wound that doesn't logically line up with the situation?

I must be missing something, right?

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

I disagree that he didn't have to approach him. He needed to get into the compound, but the Nazis had to be off their guard. Otherwise the plan wouldn't have worked. Also, if they were planning on killing him the moment they saw him, why would they let him into the compound if he came of his own accord? That would have seemed disrespectful to Jack.

Also, I assume that Walt either got shot by a ricocheting bullet or by some shrapnel/glass.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Doctor Submarine wrote:

I disagree that he didn't have to approach him. He needed to get into the compound, but the Nazis had to be off their guard. Otherwise the plan wouldn't have worked. Also, if they were planning on killing him the moment they saw him, why would they let him into the compound if he came of his own accord? That would have seemed disrespectful to Jack.


If Walt hadn't have talked to Lydia & Todd, he would have been showing up blind to the camp. Jack's gang would have been on guard until they saw it was Walt -- looking terrible -- and then dropped their guard because they don't see him as a threat. It was mentioned before that the downfall of everyone that Walt has taken out has been because they underestimate him, so them starting on guard and then lowering it would have reinforced how little they thought of him...which would play right into them getting butchered by his (mechanical) hand.

Also, the lackies clearly wouldn't have known what to do with Walt if he just randomly showed up, so taking him to Jack in the clubhouse would make sense. Their confusion would have added some additional tension, too.

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Also, I assume that Walt either got shot by a ricocheting bullet or by some shrapnel/glass.

Exactly, it's unclear and the wound itself doesn't make a lot of sense considering he was laying face down on top of Jesse.

I wholly agree it's nit-picky -- but it's the death of the main character at the end of the season finale. You'd think, for that moment, every detail would be toiled over and worked out.

Again...I could be missing something. I'll probably watch it again a few times while letting it sink in. I think I'll appreciate it more as a closer in time, but for now I just felt it wasn't a particularly strong episode, which for a series finale is kind of a bummer.

Though, on the whole, I still feel Breaking Bad is one of the best television shows to ever exist.

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

I think the fact that it wasn't a strong closer was what made it perfect. There's such a pressure on Big Important Shows to go out with a bang, to lay it all on the table in their finale. Breaking Bad didn't do that. Because shows that DO do that often fall into the trap of being defined by their finales, for better or for worse. People don't talk about The Sopranos anymore because of great episodes like Funhouse or Whitecaps. All anyone talks about in reference to that show is its finale. That won't happen with Breaking Bad, and that's a good thing.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

I thought it was a very fitting ending, tied everything up perfectly. I predicted a lot of it, but in typical Breaking Bad fashion the way all the plot beats were hit was much more creative and clever than anything I would've come up with.

I agree DocSub, I like the viewpoint of a show as a novel, and in this sense it's the last chapter. The last chapter SHOULDN'T be springing craziness left and right and trying to be throwing you off balance all the sudden, it should be wrapping up what's already in play, and I think they did a really good job of that.

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Re: A Breaking Bad Conversation Thread w/ *SPOILERS* Up the Wazoo

It's okay to retcon a couple of the more farfetched plot points as the desperate measures of a man who has finally resigned himself to death and thus has nothing to lose. This helps deal with questions like "What would Walt have done had he not been allowed to park his car in that exact spot?" and "What if the Nazis would have simply shot Walt on sight?" It's like Gus poisoning Don Eladio and his men: what would Gus have done had he not been allowed to go to the bathroom? He would have died. High risk, high reward.

Doctor Submarine wrote:

I think the fact that it wasn't a strong closer was what made it perfect. There's such a pressure on Big Important Shows to go out with a bang, to lay it all on the table in their finale. Breaking Bad didn't do that. Because shows that DO do that often fall into the trap of being defined by their finales, for better or for worse. People don't talk about The Sopranos anymore because of great episodes like Funhouse or Whitecaps. All anyone talks about in reference to that show is its finale. That won't happen with Breaking Bad, and that's a good thing.

I think so too. I don't hate The Sopranos finale, but I do suspect it was the result of David Chase feeling that pressure and either over-thinking it or saying "To hell with it." Indeed, what happened is that people can't talk about the series now without giving their verdict on the finale (like I just did). BB's approach was to make the whole season (season 5-b, anyway) basically Walt's "endtimes." Before the finale aired, we knew paradise was lost and that a happily-ever-after ending wasn't possible. With Walt, we could literally see the writing on the wall. The Sopranos finale had to deal with the "Will it end badly for Tony?" question. With BB, the answer to that was a foregone conclusion, and the finale just had to show us how it happens.

I'm already looking at my Chamberlain garage-door motor differently.

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/03-threat.gif

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