"There's not a shred of evidence in any of the drafts that Vader was Luke's father."

  Never said there was. (Though the fact that he combined aspects of the redeemed Vader figure with the mostly machine father figure could be evidence that he was at least toying with the idea of making Vader the father. He was reading Campbell at the time and could have taken the idea of the Atonement With the Father step to heart).
  What I said was that he COULD have had the notion by the time ANH started filming. And if he did have it by then I see no problem with his keeping it a secret till the scene where it is revealed. I wouldn't want to give that away. He seems to have kept if from everyone until he told Mark. The shooting script had the alternate line.  Are you saying that he had the idea just before the rolled film?

"It's tantamount to hero-worship to argue that he had not only conceived the idea but was actively keeping it secret."

  Hero worship? I specifically said that I wasn't an apologist and didn't believe his version of the story. He clearly makes shit up. Some "hero-worship"!

"But no-one ever thinks Lucas didn't make that one up on the spot for ROTJ"

  By "make it up on the spot" I assume you mean once he started writing the script and knew he wasn't making another sequel. The June 12, 1981 Revised Rough Draft has Leia as his sister. He also cut out the more passionate kiss in Empire. Which he said was because he decided then that she would be the sister.

"Why? Because Lucas has spent the last decade going around trying to rewrite the story of Star Wars..."

  Or maybe because he isn't as big a liar as you (and me) think...Nah!

  Seriously though, why even bring Leia up? It doesn't help your case in the least.

Last edited by fardawg (2010-07-11 05:00:25)

Fardawg, I would take you more seriously, or at least pretend to, if you didn't post two, three, four, and even five posts in a row. Edit your earlier post, or better yet, make sure you've fully thought through what you want to say before you hit 'submit.'

Please.

I'm with Fardawg that Lucas probably absorbed Campbell and came to the conclusion in the last drafts that Vader perhaps ought to be Luke's father but left it open. Without it, Star Wars actually has rather weak form: the mentor tells the hero that the bad man killed his dad, and the hero sees the bad man kill his mentor, but the hero never gets to confront the bad man face-to-face.

While I'm at it, Teague asked what's wrong with Star Wars, so....

Cut the jawas to the bare minimum, and bring Luke in 4 minutes earlier.

Put Luke's intro to the Force before the destruction of Alderaan, then imply that hours have passed when Luke gets the hang of it and Obi-Wan goes weak.

Spice up Obi-Wan's death scene with a little Force (but no jumping). Then Obi-Wan should be sliced in two and react before disappearing. Luke briefly goes after Vader, who blocks his blaster shots effortlessly then closes a blast door between them.

Then Luke gets a chance to show that he's a great pilot. He jumps in a T-16 or shuttle to escape and outmaneuvers 2 TIE fighters to crash into each other while Han and Leia shoot some from ball turrets (giving her more to do).

The intro of the battle briefing is too abrupt. When they first arrive and Leia says to get the Death Star plans from R2, Luke and Han should veer off and encounter Biggs and Wedge. Luke introduces them, and they introduce the X-Wing ("Same control setup as the T-16!") And Wedge should be black, another pilot should be a woman, and another should be an alien.

During the battle, Leia needs to order each attack run instead of just looking worried. At the climax, she should say that time is running out and ask who is in position for another run. Only Luke.

3P0 has been monitoring Imperial transmissions and announces that Vader is the one in the new-style TIE fighter. Likewise, Vader should sense "This one is using the Force.... Obi-Wan's apprentice!"

In the medal ceremony, Wedge and the others should already have medals. Chewie has to kneel, providing the final moment of levity instead of all the goofy smiling.

Really interesting point about resembling a skeleton, though.

Thanks for the link, that was interesting. Do you know when that doco was made?

This rings a bell but i can't remember, does anyone know what movie this is from? Just curious.

That screenshot's from a movie i've seen i just can't remember right now. From the look of John Dykstra and the other movies mentioned i'll say 1984.

They have different voices in the original trilogy.  *shrug*

As I can attest to from my portrayal of Stormtroopers 1-47 in Return of Pink Five

The official Word (as of 2011 or last I heard) was that the stormtroopers at the time of the OT were a mixture of clones and recruits. But this may change depending on what side of the bed Lucas wakes up on tomorrow.

I don't think any are clones and don't like the idea. It's just not very effective on a dramatic level. The terror of the stormtroopers is that they are faceless fanatics who have given up their identity (or had it taken from them) in service to a sorceror Emperor. That says something about the Empire. Not just the emperor himself but about the regime. There's the obvious echo with our own history, evil doesn't just come from the top but manifests in the lowest soldier - all due to environment that encourages such behaviour. When our heroes take up the fight, they're not fighting just the emperor, they're fighting the regime and what it does to people, what it makes or forces them to be. Guys like Tarkin who thrive on power.

If they're just 'built that way' and all share the same features, it reduces them to the level of robots. The evil becomes limited to just the man with the controls, which actually lessens the overall impact he has on the world. After all, the villain hasn't infected anyone with his evil, he hasn't manipulate others to follow him, he isn't drawing the worst out of others for his own gain - he's just punching commands into a program and it gets done.

Totally agree. Stormtroopers aren't evil; they're just soldiers doing a job. And if the Clone Wars were about "our clones fighting their robots," then it would have been called the Robots Wars. And then Craig Charles would have hosted it, and it would still have been kind of crap.