Re: Suggest a movie!

maul2 wrote:

Sorry dude, but your theory is complete bunk...you wanna know, how I know?


Jim....Carey.


And the fact that any movie with Eddie Murphy in a fat suit, isn't really all that funny.

Although doesn't dissuade Dane Cook being an unfunny hack.


since i don't want this lingering on the internet for years to come... i was being very sarcastic about the fat suit part... but the Dane Cook part is all too real

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Re: Suggest a movie!

just flipped it on HBO since I have it free this weekend and remember seeing this in the theater, Be Kind Rewind. I think this ought to be a good you if you guys do it.

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Gattaca

Time Bandits

Serenity

Wall E

Dr.Strangelove

Paths of Glory

Catch-22

AI

Idiocracy

Jurassic Park 2/3

UHF

Ratatouille

Casino Royale (the new one)

I think these would make good episodes of DIF.

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Welcome to the forums, sir! Good list. Many of those are on our to-do list, Gattaca is an interesting idea.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Suggest a movie!

30 days of night

Mad max

Pitch back

Shaun of the Dead

Black Sheep (the 2006 Kiwi comedy/horror tongue)

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Re: Suggest a movie!

I would love to do Ratatouille since I love Pixar and I love to cook.  Gattaca I have a lot of love for.Serenity is inevitable.  AI I hate worse than Cloe hates Pan's Labrynth.  Seriously, I'm a nice enough guy but I turn into a relentless hate machine when that movie is even mentioned.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Suggest a movie!

I contend that it is impossible to both hate "AI" and understand "AI" at the same time.

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I "understand," AI just fine.....and I fucking hate it.  Specifically the last third of the movie which is the biggest dick tuck I think a director could make.  I love Spielberg but that was utter tripe.

Also, by saying I hate it because I don't understand it, wether intentionally or not, smacks of condescension.  I am smart enough to know what Spielberg is attempting, how the story works, and what the themes are.  I just disagree fundamentally with almost all of it.

Last edited by Eddie (2010-06-17 19:51:15)

Eddie Doty

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Eddie, I think we've been down this road before. If it wasn't you, it was somebody else on this forum I'm pretty sure. Lemme say it again, 'cause once again I find myself needing to: Whenever I sound really fucking condescending, it's because I'm making fun of myself a little bit and the between-the-lines whatnot isn't coming through over the Internet. For reals. Promise.

That said, I'll try to cut down on it.

Anyway, at the risk of actually staying on topic, lemme just say this about that regarding "AI." There's legitimate debate to be had about the difference between an author's intentions and a viewer's interpretations and whether one or the other of those is more legitimate. But whether either Kubrick or Spielberg meant it this way — or Aldiss, who wrote the short story on which the movie was incredibly loosely based — that film has to be one of the most deeply and unapologetically misanthropic works of art ever. It's practically the anti-Spielberg film. Spielberg, the consummate humanist, put his name on a feature that starts out with the contention that humans are bastards who are absolutely not worth saving and never lets go of it for a second.

There are two kinds of characters in the movie: human beings and robots. The humans are, without exception, selfish, crass, venal, shallow, weak, manipulative and cruel. The robots have their own personalities, because they were built to, but they share one characteristic in common: They are innocent. They're simple and child-like and pure of spirit, by virtue of, well, not having spirits at all. They are virtuous, but empty.

Precisely one character (or more accurately, group of characters) shows the slightest humanity in the course of the film. And it happens at the very end, and in deference to anybody here who may not have seen it, I won't spoil. But suffice to say it fits with the theme.

"AI" is the anti-fairy tale. It starts with the premise of Pinocchio, then says fuck you, there is no fairy, there is no magic, you will never be anything other than what you are. You're incapable of transcendence, and no one — no one — will ever love you.

It's a dark, dark film. And the reason I made my wisecrack about not understanding it is because a lot of people simply don't. They misunderstand this or that aspect of the film — or maybe it's more accurate to say they differently understand it, since I make no claims about one interpretation or another being the correct one — and it leads them to think the movie was thematically murky, or that it took a hard swerve in the third act. It wasn't, and it didn't. It's a brutal, nihilistic film.

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Yes.  AI posits the theory that humans are the real monsters/heartless machines.  A theme that has never been explored in cinema before, especially in every zombie movie ever.

And your theory about how subversive and misanthropic a film it would be would hold water if not for the fact that Spielberg completely cuts the legs out from underneath his own argument in the last act.  You want brutal and nihilistc?  *Spoiler* leave Haley at the bottom of the ocean.  Pull out, fade to black, credits.  That would have taken my breath away and I wold have thought the movie brilliant.  But no.  We have to have the hollywood ending where this MACHINE that is not actually capable of feeling at all, but is by the films own admission just a complicated series of algorithms, gets an alien family that loves him and the happy ending after an extra long life.  Nothing about that is subversive.  Nothing about that is challenging.  Nothing about that is brutal.  He experiences hardship before being treated to heaven.  That's nihilism, that is the book of Job.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Kay, I see that. But at the risk of hitting your "condescending" button again … I think you misunderstood the last act. Or differently understood it.

First of all, they're not aliens at all. Gigolo Joe foreshadows this: "They made us too smart, too quick, and too many. We are suffering for the mistakes they made because, when the end comes, all that will be left is us." David is recovered from the ice by "evolved" robots, the descendants of the race of robots created by the humans. When they dig him and Teddy out, one robot says to another (in subtitles), "These robots are originals. They knew living people." Then he — it, whatever — downloads David's memory (we see it projected on the robot's head), and the other robots link up with the first one so they all get the data.

Then there's the scene with David and the Blue Fairy, which is obviously a simulation created by the robots. She even spells it right out: "We want you to be happy," she says. "You are so important. You are unique in all the world." Because, again, he's so old that he actually interacted with living people, before they all died out leaving only the robots behind.

Then comes the singular moment in the whole movie. Teddy gives David the lock of hair — it's still pristine after two thousand years; remember this is all simulated by the robots — and the robot who we now learn was the narrator all along says simply, "Give him what he wants."

This is the only time in the entire movie when one character shows mercy to another. And it's a robot that does it. And not even a robot built by a person — the robots built by people are no more capable of pure altruism than the human characters are — but a robot built by robots built by robots and so on for twenty centuries.

And then the robots give David the illusion of a single day with his mother — probably squirted into his mechanical brain in a fraction of a second. And after that, because they understood his limitations, they turned him off.

The movie ends with a mercy killing.

If you want to characterize that as an alien family and a happy ending, well, I can't really argue with you. But I just can't see it that way.

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437

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You're right.

I mistook aliens for advanced robots. 

Either way, my issues remain the same.  A mercy killing after a simu-heaven is not that bad at all. 

I was in no way moved emotionally by any of David's trials.  And I fucking tear up at Wall-E.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Fair enough. I have a hard time getting emotionally invested in the movie myself, since David is never even hinted to be anything more than a mere machine. A complicated one, yeah, but I related to him as a character about as much as I'd relate to an ATM.

The whole premise and execution reminds me more than a little bit of this, though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBqhIVyfsRg

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Read into the ending what you will, it is still a Hollywood ending. And it's deus ex machina—or machina ex machina, anyway. And it's a Spielbergian advanced race that looks and acts like angels (compare Close Encounters, Crystal Skull). And it's rhinoplastied  Pinocchio (that is, Pinocchio without the important part about learning to be good).

Resolved: All robot stories are either Pinocchio or RUR. Discuss.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Zarban wrote:

Resolved: All robot stories are either Pinocchio or RUR. Discuss.

I posit that RUR is just Frankenstein, so the dichotomy should really be "Pinocchio or Frankenstein".

Which actually sounds like the greatest game show ever.   "Get ready to play.. Pinocchio or Frankenstein!"  *cue jazzy theme music*

Re: Suggest a movie!

I'll go you one better. I think at least eight out of ten stories period are either Pinocchio or Frankenstein.

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Wow, good point, guys.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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443

Re: Suggest a movie!

Back on the topic of suggest a movie:

The Fountain: I was bored by this movie, but apparently others loved it. I felt like I was watching something that thought it was deep and clever and full of metaphors in three parallel stories (which would be awesome), but either all the cleverness went woosh right by me, or there was really nothing there. It seemed to be full of literary allusions that I'm not remotely aware of. I was waiting for the three story lines to twine together into something mind blowing, but it just didn't add up. However, Dorkman (and others) seem to think it's the bees knees, and I must know why.

The Fall (the Tarsem Singh one): Also full of artistically beautiful shots. Also abstract and jumpy in it's plot. Also has multiple stories going on, one inside the other. But this movie mostly worked for me, despite being quite a bit too long. It's just so pretty.

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Astroninja Studios wrote:

gets an alien family that loves him

What
no

nonononono

Posted from my iPad
http://trek.fm

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"The Fountain" is a masterpiece, a life-changing work of art.

"The Fall" is pretty okay too.

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Our commentary for The Fountain is going be very, very good. Already have a guest for that one lined up - not a celebrity - that will do unto Fountain what Eddie does unto Full Metal Jacket.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Suggest a movie!

Just re-watched Strange Days.  Core members follow suit and report, this is a good one.

Re: Suggest a movie!

Never heard of it.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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And that's why I haven't had much luck getting Strange Days onto the schedule.  It's one of my faves, but few to none of the rest of the team have seen the thing.   

Which is just plain wrong.

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The Fountain's great but i started to get sick of her saying 'do it' (or whatever) by the end, she must say it 50 times.

I love that Aronofsky did his own commentary when the studio wouldn't do one. Zarban's link is  here if you've never heard it.

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