Topic: Sally Menke and editing

Not to take away from what is clearly bad news, but the outpouring coming from Sally Menke's death has made me realize how little I understand about editing and what makes a great editor.

Not to make this about me, but whenever I discover such failings in myself I get the strong need to correct them, and to my knowledge as much as we talk about editing in the show, we haven't had a discussion thread on the topic.

I realize editing a a HUGE area to cover, so I don't expect to learn ALL that there is on the subject here, but I would like to understand at least what it is about this particular editor that makes her passing such a loss to the industry.

My best to the Menke family; RIP Sally, you have a lot of fans who will miss you.

Re: Sally Menke and editing

I'd like to field this one.  


I'll start by saying this sent HUGE shockwaves throughout the editing community.  Editors I know who never met her are grieving this like it was a family member.  My friend Sara Hillner who I worked with on a few shows, idolized her on a few levels.  With that said, if I'm going to be talking about the role of editing, it's importance in the craft, and Sally's position as a giant amongst her peers, I'll hope you indulge in a slight personal anecdote.


I got into editing because I wanted to be a writer.  In college I was convinced I was going to be the next Kevin Smith (oh, young Eddie, how adorable you were) and my writing was going to be my claim to fame.  During a Linear editing class my Junior year we had an assignment where we had to take existing scene elements and cut a scene, using at least one shot from every setup.  I hated it.  It was some Australian film school curriculum my professor somehow got a hold of, and it was beyond lame.  Being the punk I was, I decided to make a trailer for it like it was a Michael Bay movie.  It turned out kinda funny, and my teacher appreciated what i had done, for not really doing the assignment.  It hit me very hard right then, that I had completely rewritten the scene.  There was power in that.


That began my love for editing and it scratched a creative itch that few other things in this industry do.  Editing is the choke point of the creative process. When you hit the editing room, it doesn't matter what you wrote, shot, conceived, or wished for, it matters what you do with whats in front of you.
And that is where someone like Sally truly shined.I've always thought the auteur theory was a bit overhyped.  No film worth watching is one persons creative vision.  But QT is one of those guys (Rodriguez and Soderbergh being others) where its dominated by his own vision.  As QT said himself, "I write the movies myself, but I cut them with Sally."  Meaning, Sally is the one in charge of rewriting, restructuring, and overall reigning in what QT shot, to best tell the story that QT had in his head.  You'd be surprised how an extra 15 frames can literally alter the entire meaning of a scene.  Sally understood that with someone with the unique properties that QT has, 15 frames in either direction per scene can mean quite a lot.


Now, the least tasteful joke I've heard so far is "You mean Quentin Tarantino had an editor?!?!"  Firstly, fuck you.  Secondly, just because you think QT's movies might be a it indulgent, or drag in spots (which is a fair criticism) doesn't mean that Sally didn't have HER voice mixed in with Quentin's the entire time.  No matter who the director is, the Editor is often the biggest collaborator outside of the producer.  They are the ones who are going to be involved with every frame of footage, and Sally knew exactly when to cutaway, when to hang on a shot, which take best carried the emotion, and what rhythm the film NEEDED.  THe crazy part is, 99% of people will never know this.  Editing is called the invisible art for a reason.  If we do our jobs right you will NEVER see it.  Good editing isn't stutter edits, FCP plugins, cutting to a downbeat, or snapping your fingers in a rhythm and cutting according to that.

 It's carrying an emotion consistently throughtout a scene, based on the raw materials the director provides you with, and Sally was one of the best.
It's a damn horrible loss.  And I promise you this, irrespective of what people think of QT's work before, it will never be the same after this.  It wasn't just Sally who died, it was part of QT's sensibility too.

Last edited by Eddie (2010-09-29 16:10:50)

Eddie Doty

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

This is only available streaming until the first of October, hopefully you'll get a chance to check it out.

http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/The-Cutt … kid=438403

One of the biggest things you can do to develop an appreciation of editing is to see a couple different takes of a scene while an editor is working on a project. Like comparing the script to the first string out, a few versions how the scene simultaneously varies, tightens, and extends as it is worked on, and the final cut.

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

I own that on DVD and watching Murch cut is always a treat.

Eddie Doty

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

Eddie - what's the name of that book that you've mention on DIF a few times..pretty much the editing bible?  i always forget to write it down, and i'd love to check it out.  all my experience is in splicing audio and i'm curious about the visual aspect of it.

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

In the Blink of an Eye.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

I'm sorry to say that I only recently heard of Sally Menke, and this discovery was entirely due to the extra feature on the bluray/dvd of 'Inglourious Basterds'. It was a neat little extra with all these "Hi Sally" outtakes.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

Shackman wrote:

Eddie - what's the name of that book that you've mention on DIF a few times..pretty much the editing bible?  i always forget to write it down, and i'd love to check it out.  all my experience is in splicing audio and i'm curious about the visual aspect of it.

That's a great position from which to read the book. Murch was originally a sound design guy that got into film editing, and that informs a lot of his sensibilities.

And for you or anyone else that's interested in the book, don't let the "bible" term scare you off, its like  120 pages and can easily be read in a day, if not a weekend.

Most people praise the opening sequence of Inglourious Basterds for being edited exceptionally well, but personally I think there's a lot more done just with the edit on its own in the sequence at breakfast later on in the film. If you can get your hands on that (there's odd snippets on youtube) consider how the cuts lend themselves to the emotional weight of the sequence.

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

just a side note, Sally was married to Dean "Galaxy Quest" Parisot.   I had no idea until i read the obit.

Re: Sally Menke and editing

Shackman wrote:

Eddie - what's the name of that book that you've mention on DIF a few times..pretty much the editing bible?  i always forget to write it down, and i'd love to check it out.  all my experience is in splicing audio and i'm curious about the visual aspect of it.

Pretty sure that and a few others are in the store.  Just sayin'. wink

Eddie: Thanks for the post, that's what I was hoping for.

Re: Sally Menke and editing

Now, the least tasteful joke I've heard so far is "You mean Quentin Tarantino had an editor?!?!"

This is because people hear 'editor,' and they think of the verb 'edit,' and they translate it to 'remove or cut,' and think that an 'editor' is 'someone who makes things shorter.'

Because people are idiots.

Posted from my iPad
http://trek.fm

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

No, they have the word right, it's just that they don't understand it's 50 hours of footage that's being cut down to that over long 3 hour movie. Actually a movie editor is probably closer to the editor of an anthology (as opposed to a normal book editor), deciding what individual pieces to put together to make a whole instead of what to cut out. But, that's not how the term is usually used... hell, I tend to have an immediate negative reaction on hearing anything is "edited" smile

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

Gregory Harbin wrote:

This is because people hear 'editor,' and they think of the verb 'edit,' and they translate it to 'remove or cut,' and think that an 'editor' is 'someone who makes things shorter.'

Because people are idiots.

Thanks, Greg. Glad you spelled that out for us.

Re: Sally Menke and editing

Brian Finifter wrote:
Gregory Harbin wrote:

This is because people hear 'editor,' and they think of the verb 'edit,' and they translate it to 'remove or cut,' and think that an 'editor' is 'someone who makes things shorter.'

Because people are idiots.

Thanks, Greg. Glad you spelled that out for us.

Not everyone on this forum went to film school, Brian. And not everyone on this forum is aware of what misconceptions exist in the world at large. So, yeah, actually, it is a little helpful to spell out what the problem is. If the title were changed to something like 'sequencer,' we'd end up with a lot fewer people making stupid jokes about how can you win an Oscar for editing on a movie that's three hours long.

Last edited by Gregory Harbin (2010-09-30 03:59:59)

Posted from my iPad
http://trek.fm

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

ok kids, let's do this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipf91nAWsAw

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Re: Sally Menke and editing

Also,

http://blogs.indiewire.com/toddmccarthy … as_an_ace/

Everything we're discussing here, framed around the sad reason for the topic.

Last edited by paulou (2010-09-30 05:14:13)

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