Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Did you guys ever touch on whether the show is succeeding? Is it doing well enough, or is it not getting the ratings?

EDIT:

Also, can you think of any other shows that "destroyed the fence" as it were, and then went on to become popular series after starting out with four or five weaker episodes?

Last edited by Squiggly_P (2011-11-13 01:04:05)

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Long story.  smile 

Terra Nova was supposed to be a massive hit, what with the subject matter and the Spielberg name and the amount of money they've been spending on it.   But the debut ratings were far below expectations and have since slipped downward to a level that would put ANY show in jeopardy, especially one as expensive as this one.

To be fair, Terra Nova has had a run of bad ratings luck.  One early episode got delayed almost an hour when the baseball playoffs ran long... which dealt a hit to the ratings and even more of a hit to the DVR numbers, when people booted up their DVR's to watch TN and got baseball instead.  (a lot of House viewers were equally dismayed when their House recording turned out to be full of Terra Nova. smile

Then the show was pre-empted for a week because Fox was running the World Series.  The week after THAT, Terra Nova aired on Halloween night, when their target audience was trick-or-treating, so the ratings were low again (but did recover once DVR views were counted).

Last week's episode was the first in a while that didn't have some extenuating circumstance to blame... and yet the ratings stayed solidly in the "meh" zone.  As a result, more than one Nielsen-watching expert has now put the show officially on the endangered list.

But... I dunno.   First of all, TN is already airing in several foreign markets.  I'm not following the ratings offshore, but if they're significant enough, that could help Terra Nova's chances.

Next - most every show starts the season with a 13 episode order from the network.  A key indicator of the network's mood is when - or if - they order the "back nine" episodes for a full-season total of 22.  If a new show dies fast enough (Studio 60, Firefly), there's no "back nine" and thirteen episodes is all there ever is.   If a show goes the full 22, of course it can still be canceled at the end of the season, but at least the network's given it a full season to find its audience. 

But somewhat unusually, Terra Nova will only be 13 episodes in its first season, no matter what, and those episodes have already been shot.  That was a decision made long before it ever aired.   So there's no "back nine" decision to be made.  This is lucky for Fox, because right about now they'd have to be pulling the trigger on the back nine or not.  What they've opted to do instead is announce that all the remaining episodes will air in order and without being bumped. 

So they won't move the show to another time slot, or pull it off the schedule and then burn the remaining episodes off next spring, or any of the other things that people like to point to later as excuses for how a network ruined a show that otherwise would have been - supposedly - a huge hit. 

This all good news for Fox, because they don't have to be bad guys and cancel Terra Nova  - instead they can just quietly not renew it later.   They'll air the remaining episodes and then they can just say nothing for the rest of the season, if they don't want to.   Maybe not even until they announce next year's lineup and wait to see if anyone notices that Terra Nova's not on it.

But there's also the wildcard - Steven Spielberg could step in and throw his weight around and get another season that way.  Might have to make some concessions to make it happen (budget cuts for example, but I wouldn't say that's a bad thing).  He got a second season out of Amazing Stories even after that turned out to be a not-so-successful venture, too.

My completely-unscientific guess right now is - Terra Nova gets a second season.   Everybody involved seemed to think they'd made the Greatest Show Evar - until the debut ratings came back and they realized they'd just shit themselves in public.  It's in everyone's interest to keep it on the air - if for no other reason than as a face-saving gesture all around.

Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Trey wrote:

My completely-unscientific guess right now is - Terra Nova gets a second season.   Everybody involved seemed to think they'd made the Greatest Show Evar - until the debut ratings came back and they realized they'd just shit themselves in public.  It's in everyone's interest to keep it on the air - if for no other reason than as a face-saving gesture all around.

Fuck, Trey, I was winding up to completely disagree with your post, and then you turn around in the final paragraph and say exactly what I was going to say. Yeah, TN will probably get a second season. If it completely Dollhouses the second season, they'll be gone, but it's possible they can Grow The Beard and actually turn it into a good (and hit) show.

Not to say I'm not really, really enjoying it right now. But I can see why a geek audience would have problems with it, and a wide audience would have problems with it. But it's fun, and I'm willing to give it a chance to find its sea legs. Not every show can hit the jackpot right away (LOST, Battlestar being the only exceptions I can think of—and ask Brian what he thinks of the end of THOSE shows).

Last edited by Gregory Harbin (2011-11-13 06:39:06)

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Well, TN finished production shortly after the series debuted, without knowing if they were canceled or renewed (officially they're still in limbo, though it's possible that the decision's been made and just not announced yet).   They certainly went into it intending to run forever, but then all shows do.  Making a "just in case" episode when you're still hoping for renewal is pretty unusual.

However, there are cases of shows that were canceled while still in production, and occasionally those WILL turn the last episode into a finale.   The Playboy Club was canceled so fast that the network literally halted production before the 13 episodes were even finished.  The seventh (and unexpectedly final) episode was reportedly turned into something of a finale... which I guess can be seen someday on DVD.

And it turns out I misremembered in my earlier post - Studio 60 actually DID get a "back nine" order and ran for 22 episodes.    But it was already in trouble when the back nine was (grudgingly) ordered, and by the time they finished production they knew it was over.  So Studio 60 does end with a solid wrap-up of most of the major storylines.

I know Firefly was still in production even after it was canceled, though I dunno if it's by accident or design that Objects In Space, the last episode, kinda has a wrap-up feel to it as well.  It's notable that it was the last episode aired, even though the three unaired episodes were originally supposed to come before it in order.

Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Did any two firefly episodes get released in order? There were issues with them releasing the fist several episodes out of order as well. The pilot episode where the main characters all meet up on the ship aired as the third episode or something. That would have been confusing. And then there was another episode in there that was basically a recap of how the previous crew got on there...

It's no wonder audiences were confused as hell at that show.

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Let's not reopen old wounds.

What has always amazed me is how often in TV retrospectives the cast and crew say they had no idea the show was canceled until it was reported in the news.

That's so cowardly, I can't conceive of it.

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Trey wrote:

And it turns out I misremembered in my earlier post - Studio 60 actually DID get a "back nine" order and ran for 22 episodes.    But it was already in trouble when the back nine was (grudgingly) ordered, and by the time they finished production they knew it was over.  So Studio 60 does end with a solid wrap-up of most of the major storylines.

Studio 60 has the WEIRDEST back nine in TV history. Sorkin completely changed his conception of what the show was and kind of went to the mansion with it. Not that I don't love that entire show, but I think they should have either given him a second season or just aired the thirteen.

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

As a big fan of Studio 60, the back nine are almost stunning. It goes full retard wacky there for a little while, then Sorkin kind of whimpers, farts in his chair, and starts writing hostage situations again.

Teague Chrystie

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Trey wrote:

But somewhat unusually, Terra Nova will only be 13 episodes in its first season, no matter what, and those episodes have already been shot.  That was a decision made long before it ever aired... Making a "just in case" episode when you're still hoping for renewal is pretty unusual... However, there are cases of shows that were canceled while still in production, and occasionally those WILL turn the last episode into a finale... The seventh (and unexpectedly final) episode was reportedly turned into something of a finale... which I guess can be seen someday on DVD... I know Firefly was still in production even after it was canceled, though I dunno if it's by accident or design that Objects In Space, the last episode, kinda has a wrap-up feel to it as well.  It's notable that it was the last episode aired, even though the three unaired episodes were originally supposed to come before it in order.

This is quite common for Fox, as they tend to produce 13 episodes in a show's first season and if it gets cancelled before all 13 air, they can market the rest on DVD as "new, never before seen episodes", thus giving extra buying incentive for those who actually liked the show.

If you're a show like The Playboy Club, and all you have produced are seven episodes, you can forget about a DVD anytime soon. They'll just go up on iTunes and you can buy each unseen ep for a couple bucks a pop, and they're not out anything because they didn't have to spend money on producing, packaging and marketing DVDs. "Drive" (starring Nathan Fillion) and "Jezebel James" (starring Parker Posey) are examples of this.

If I remember correctly, I believe Joss says somewhere on a commentary that "Objects In Space" ended up being Firefly's last episode more by "accident". I believe the last thing they ever actually shot was "Heart of Gold". On occasion, if you get cancelled with enough notice and your 13 episodes are paid for (usually for foreign markets and DVD, like I mentioned above), you can make a point to produce a "finale" and wrap up as best you can. "Dollhouse" did this. Also, it is possible to make something of a finale, but still leave it open enough for more content. Tim Minear did this on purpose with "Wonderfalls".

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Trey wrote:

But there's also the wildcard - Steven Spielberg could step in and throw his weight around and get another season that way.  Might have to make some concessions to make it happen (budget cuts for example, but I wouldn't say that's a bad thing).  He got a second season out of Amazing Stories even after that turned out to be a not-so-successful venture, too.

I almost think, although this would just be reading a local reporter commenting on events, that Amazing Stories went into its first season with at least a two year guarantee. Gotta be nice (Andromeda, iirc, started its first run syndicated life with five years already paid for with the foreign rights alone). I think Seaquest got its third season because NBC was running two Spielberg/Amblin shows and was willing, grudgingly, to keep one. Seaquest already had two seasons, so it got a third to give it enough episodes for syndication and Earth 2 was canceled.

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Teague wrote:

then Sorkin kind of whimpers, farts in his chair, and starts writing hostage situations again.

Why am I the only person who seems to like that?

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

I like it too.

Teague Chrystie

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Other then Zoey Bartlette when did he go crazy with the hostage plot lines?

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

There were a couple other hostagey scenarios involving non-characters on The West Wing. Folks in Qatar and stuff.

*shrug* I really liked the Zoey plot, and the Tom's brother plot, so I'm not complaining. It's just like if Seth Macfarlane started up another new show, didn't know what to do after a while, and added Stewie. I like Stewie, so it works for me, but awwwwwwwwwww. *pinches cheek*

Teague Chrystie

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Ah fair enough. I know a couple of people who feel dislike the last few for being very Sorkin by numbers and yeah Danny says the same thing about Matt as Toby says about Sam in s4 of West Wing.

I kinda feel the same about this news show he's doing, It's a retreat but I like those things!

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Faldor wrote:
Teague wrote:

then Sorkin kind of whimpers, farts in his chair, and starts writing hostage situations again.

Why am I the only person who seems to like that?

You can LIKE the mansion while still admitting that you're GOING to the mansion.

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

I watched an episode last night for the first time since the show started. What immediately jumped out was how awful the acting was. Not a single person in that family gave a good performance.

The A-plot involved the daughter meeting her anthropologist hero, who is NOT WHO HE APPEARS TO BE. The twist is so blatantly obvious that it pissed me off a little. They didn't even try to hide it. The daughter character gave the worst performance, but the writing was partially to blame. They had to stretch her realization out over days, when a normal person would have taken an hour to figure it out. Also, she uses technology that you need clearance for in broad daylight during the facility's work hours. GAH.

The B-plot is about the son being stupid and getting medicine for Sixers. Did I miss something? Why do the Sixers want to live outside Terra Nova? They're barely surviving! And the C-plot is about Stephen Lang going fishing and saving some guy from a Komodo dragon dinosaur.

I can't believe that this show actually has defenders.

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Did I miss something? Why do the Sixers want to live outside Terra Nova? They're barely surviving!

…erm.

Because they were banished?

Because they tried to overthrow the leadership?

Because they were sent by someone in the future to infiltrate Terra Nova?

Come on, people.

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

He did say it was his first episode since the pilot. See, that's the problem with having continuity: casual viewers can't jump in unless you basically restate the premiss every episode (which some shows actually manage to do rather well).

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Invid wrote:

He did say it was his first episode since the pilot. See, that's the problem with having continuity: casual viewers can't jump in unless you basically restate the premiss every episode (which some shows actually manage to do rather well).

At least audience members should have the decency to assume that there's some things they missed and not ask rhetorical questions.

It's like walking into the theater halfway into Star Wars and asking loudly "why's Luke so mad at the Empire? It's not like they killed his family!"

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

My sister does that all the time at home, only half watching something then demanding to know what's up smile

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Gregory Harbin wrote:

At least audience members should have the decency to assume that there's some things they missed and not ask rhetorical questions.

It's like walking into the theater halfway into Star Wars and asking loudly "why's Luke so mad at the Empire? It's not like they killed his family!"

Which is why I asked if I had missed something, thus acknowledging that there was probably something that I had missed.

The impression that I got from the episode was that they were out there by choice because they resented Terra Nova for some reason. It was a mistake in the way that the show presented them. They didn't seem like people who were once part of the community; they felt like the Others.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Update:  Terra Nova ratings down another 10% last Monday.  On-the-bubble status continues.

Meanwhile, Charlie Jane Anders over at Io9 seems as disappointed as I am about Terra Nova's refusal to develop its own premise:

Terra Nova:  Our Brains Can't Withstand These Levels of Boredom!

Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

I just found this and I can't stop laughing:

http://cdn.videogum.com/files/2011/10/terra_nova.jpg

http://geeks.thedailywh.at/2011/10/18/l … f-the-day/

I actually did the same exact thing for a student film of mine. Only difference is that I worked with a budget of about 200 bucks with limited resources.

Re: Intermission 009 - Terra Nova time.

Trey wrote:

Update:  Terra Nova ratings down another 10% last Monday.  On-the-bubble status continues.

Saying 'down another' is a little misleading, as ratings are simply down from the blockbuster meteor episode from last week. They're still higher than the show had been pre-meteor.

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