Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

auralstimulation wrote:

I love how the entire Internet is writing off Smaug based on 3 seconds of footage.

Seems like only yesterday the internet was losing its collective shit over early stills of Superman's new costume... how time flies.

Of course by the time Hobbit II comes out we should be well into Star Wars pre-production.  I suspect JJ has more people working on plans to troll the internet than he does actually making Episode VII right now.    So strap in, JJ's got a laser pointer and the whole internet is gonna be his cat.  smile

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Trey wrote:

Of course by the time Hobbit II comes out we should be well into Star Wars pre-production.

http://i.imgur.com/IEhciIY.jpg

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Alex wrote:

Consider Eowyn's story: she is a symbol of feminine strength. In the Middle Earth mythology, that is her role--the idealized feminine realized through struggle. Her entire story revolves around being doubted as a woman and then proving that women can be just as strong, or stronger/more influential, than men. If every woman character did that, it wouldn't matter as much.

...no. Not at all.

Alex wrote:

Jackson's approach seems to be the opposite: rather than trying to underline a woman's story line in order to outline the genders' strengths, he's poising a preemptive strike by simply throwing in a female character with a lot of screen time but without much depth. It's like he's saying, "See? She has tons of screen time! Don't get mad at me about there being so many dudes!" As if he would be the one to blame in the first place.

I agree that it is a preemptive strike. But, seriously, you can have quantity AND quality with ladies. It's not like you can have 1 woman who is 100% strong or 5 who are 20% strong. You can have lots of great women! Jackson/Tolkein/basically everyone just chooses not to.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Allison wrote:
Alex wrote:

Consider Eowyn's story: she is a symbol of feminine strength. In the Middle Earth mythology, that is her role--the idealized feminine realized through struggle. Her entire story revolves around being doubted as a woman and then proving that women can be just as strong, or stronger/more influential, than men. If every woman character did that, it wouldn't matter as much.

...no. Not at all.

Alex wrote:

Jackson's approach seems to be the opposite: rather than trying to underline a woman's story line in order to outline the genders' strengths, he's poising a preemptive strike by simply throwing in a female character with a lot of screen time but without much depth. It's like he's saying, "See? She has tons of screen time! Don't get mad at me about there being so many dudes!" As if he would be the one to blame in the first place.

I agree that it is a preemptive strike. But, seriously, you can have quantity AND quality with ladies. It's not like you can have 1 woman who is 100% strong or 5 who are 20% strong. You can have lots of great women! Jackson/Tolkein/basically everyone just chooses not to.

Well, we have Tauriel now so I guess we'll get the 100% strong lady again  roll
Although, that flautist in the first movie was pretty strong too big_smile
Actually, I am surprised that Tolkien didn't have more women his stories, given his positive view of them but, to contrast, he was relating to a time when ladies roles were much different in society. The fact that Eowyn broke with her people's traditions and female role is interesting in of itself. It reflects a little more of Tolkien's attitudes more closely, I think.

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

fireproof78 wrote:

Actually, I am surprised that Tolkien didn't have more women his stories, given his positive view of them but, to contrast, he was relating to a time when ladies roles were much different in society. The fact that Eowyn broke with her people's traditions and female role is interesting in of itself. It reflects a little more of Tolkien's attitudes more closely, I think.

Well, Tolkien's original strong woman was Lúthien. She was about as strong as they come. She was an elven princess who fell in love with Beren, a mortal man. When he was captured and tortured by Sauron, she faced him herself. Sauron. The dark freaking lord. With the help of Huan the hound the two of them defeated waves of wolves and a shapeshifting Sauron, beat his ass, made him hand over the keys to the dungeon and banished him from the land.

She healed Beren and the two of them lived like bandits in the forest, very unfitting for a highborn elven lady. Tolkien didn't stop there, though. Like a boss, she helped her lover Beren steal the Silmarils, the most precious jewels ever crafted in Arda, right from the crown of Morgoth himself. The original dark lord, who made Sauron look like a kitten by comparison.

When Beren died fighting off the mightiest of all werewolves, she died of grief, then pleaded to the Valar (the gods) in the afterlife to let her reunite with Beren, at the cost of her immortality. Her sacrifice moved them and both were brought back from death as mortals; the only time that ever happened to lesser beings in Tolkien's mythos. The two lived out their mortal lives and had many children, eventually becoming the ancestors of Elrond and Arwen.

Tolkien requested his wife Edith's grave be inscripted with the name Lúthien. When he died, the name Beren was added to his inscription.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

auralstimulation wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

Actually, I am surprised that Tolkien didn't have more women his stories, given his positive view of them but, to contrast, he was relating to a time when ladies roles were much different in society. The fact that Eowyn broke with her people's traditions and female role is interesting in of itself. It reflects a little more of Tolkien's attitudes more closely, I think.

Well, Tolkien's original strong woman was Lúthien. She was about as strong as they come. She was an elven princess who fell in love with Beren, a mortal man. When he was captured and tortured by Sauron, she faced him herself. Sauron. The dark freaking lord. With the help of Huan the hound the two of them defeated waves of wolves and a shapeshifting Sauron, beat his ass, made him hand over the keys to the dungeon and banished him from the land.

She healed Beren and the two of them lived like bandits in the forest, very unfitting for a highborn elven lady. Tolkien didn't stop there, though. Like a boss, she helped her lover Beren steal the Silmarils, the most precious jewels ever crafted in Arda, right from the crown of Morgoth himself. The original dark lord, who made Sauron look like a kitten by comparison.

When Beren died fighting off the mightiest of all werewolves, she died of grief, then pleaded to the Valar (the gods) in the afterlife to let her reunite with Beren, at the cost of her immortality. Her sacrifice moved them and both were brought back from death as mortals; the only time that ever happened to lesser beings in Tolkien's mythos. The two lived out their mortal lives and had many children, eventually becoming the ancestors of Elrond and Arwen.

Tolkien requested his wife Edith's grave be inscripted with the name Lúthien. When he died, the name Beren was added to his inscription.

First of all, didn't know that last bit. Makes me want to cry with the beauty of it all.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvlfgt9FXe1qky5n0o1_500.jpg

Also, I need to read all the way through the Similarion. I haven't gotten past the creation story wink

http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/theonering-0188db0e/gallery/original/luthienvsmorgoth1.jpg

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug trailer has dropped.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Looks a bit more mature than Unexpected Journey. Do we really need a subplot about Legolas' romantic troubles, though?

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I'll be there in IMAX 3D HFR for the VFX CGI porn.

not long to go now...

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

fireproof78 wrote:

Also, I need to read all the way through the Silmarillion. I haven't gotten past the creation story wink

http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/theonering-0188db0e/gallery/original/luthienvsmorgoth1.jpg

The Silmarillion is a mind blowing book. It's definitely the best exploration of determinism and freewill I've seen in a work of fiction. Funny that some of Tolkien's main criticisms by modern readers are repudiated by that story. He has plenty of female characters and some are quite strong. It's also a much more tragic and darker book, with nuanced characters- not simplistic good vs evil characters where the good guys always win that he is often accused of writing.

The Tolkien Professor podcast has a bunch of Silmarillion Seminar episodes that make an outstanding companion to the book.

http://tolkienprofessor.com/wp/

Buenos Tardis   

Flickr     Letterboxd

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Looks better story-wise/tone-wise, I just wish it didn't look a fucking cartoon all the time, argh.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

ya, it looks better than the last one, in that it would appear things actually happen this time, but man I dislike the look of it. Especially that CG orc, and all these weightless fake looking elves swinging around. I don't get how you can take such a step backwards with 10+ years of new technology and double the budget. Even the spiders look cartoony to me compared to the one in ROTK. ::shrug::
I'll probably catch these on bluray when the 3rd one comes out.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Isn't Smaug a thing? A dragon? A character? Like, he could be named Ralph?

Isn't "The Desolation of Ralph" a weird title? Using an adjective that describes how many people are at a place, to describe an individual person? Like "The High Population of Ralph?"

I DON'T GET IT

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Desolation can mean an empty wasteland, but a person can also be in a state of desolation (abandoned, forsaken, lonely).

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Teague...

des·o·la·tion  (ds-lshn, dz-)
n.
1. The act or an instance of desolating.
2. The state of being desolate.
3. Devastation; ruin: a drought that brought desolation to the region.

Check out ol' number three there.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I believe it's referring to the former city/fertile land that was decimated by Smaug when he first arrived at Erebor.

des·o·la·tion 
/ˌdesəˈlāSHən/
Noun

    A state of complete emptiness or destruction.
    Anguished misery or loneliness.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

The Desolation of Smaug is a literal location in Middle Earth. It's on the map.

http://i.imgur.com/hr6larMl.jpg

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Teague wrote:

Isn't Smaug a thing? A dragon? A character? Like, he could be named Ralph?

Isn't "The Desolation of Ralph" a weird title? Using an adjective that describes how many people are at a place, to describe an individual person? Like "The High Population of Ralph?"

I DON'T GET IT

Isn't "The High Population of Ralph" a song on your album?

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Isn't "The High Population of Ralph" a song on your album?

I don't think so, but oh my god should it ever be.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

auralstimulation wrote:

The Desolation of Smaug is a literal location in Middle Earth. It's on the map.

http://i.imgur.com/hr6larMl.jpg

So, it would be more like The San Bernadino Of Ralph, to be more accurate.   wink

Buenos Tardis   

Flickr     Letterboxd

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Well played, Doc. Well played.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Looks a bit more mature than Unexpected Journey. Do we really need a subplot about Legolas' romantic troubles, though?

Why not? I mean, I don't want them to waste a whole bunch of screen time on it, but neither do I want Legolas to be little more than a glorified cameo either.

I do like the tone of the overall trailer, but it feels like it will have too much crammed in to the movie... hmm

Trying really hard to not dampen my wife's enthusiasm.


Teague wrote:

Isn't Smaug a thing? A dragon? A character? Like, he could be named Ralph?

Isn't "The Desolation of Ralph" a weird title? Using an adjective that describes how many people are at a place, to describe an individual person? Like "The High Population of Ralph?"

I DON'T GET IT

You could call him Ralph, but it seems a bit unoriginal.

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

fireproof78 wrote:

Why not? I mean, I don't want them to waste a whole bunch of screen time on it, but neither do I want Legolas to be little more than a glorified cameo either.

I don't want Legolas back at all. He's not in the book, and he's only there for fanservice. Which is fine, whatever, bring him back for a cameo. But don't distract from the main storyline with some sappy romantic subplot between him and Elf-vangeline Lilly. A subplot which, by the way, looks to be wholly lifted from the Aragorn/Arwen story from LOTR, with the elf chick's father warning her not to go gallivanting off with the handsome rogue.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

Why not? I mean, I don't want them to waste a whole bunch of screen time on it, but neither do I want Legolas to be little more than a glorified cameo either.

I don't want Legolas back at all. He's not in the book, and he's only there for fanservice. Which is fine, whatever, bring him back for a cameo. But don't distract from the main storyline with some sappy romantic subplot between him and Elf-vangeline Lilly. A subplot which, by the way, looks to be wholly lifted from the Aragorn/Arwen story from LOTR, with the elf chick's father warning her not to go gallivanting off with the handsome rogue.

Wait...what?

Um, Thranduil is Legolas' father, not Tauriel's.

I don't think it distracts, and Legolas may not be in the book, but given the time line of events he should be there. That is Jackson's whole point, to flesh out the story with things that were happening as the Hobbit happened. The White Council, Azog are all technically things that don't happen in the book.

God loves you!

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Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

fireproof78 wrote:
Doctor Submarine wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

Why not? I mean, I don't want them to waste a whole bunch of screen time on it, but neither do I want Legolas to be little more than a glorified cameo either.

I don't want Legolas back at all. He's not in the book, and he's only there for fanservice. Which is fine, whatever, bring him back for a cameo. But don't distract from the main storyline with some sappy romantic subplot between him and Elf-vangeline Lilly. A subplot which, by the way, looks to be wholly lifted from the Aragorn/Arwen story from LOTR, with the elf chick's father warning her not to go gallivanting off with the handsome rogue.

Wait...what?

Um, Thranduil is Legolas' father, not Tauriel's.

I don't think it distracts, and Legolas may not be in the book, but given the time line of events he should be there. That is Jackson's whole point, to flesh out the story with things that were happening as the Hobbit happened. The White Council, Azog are all technically things that don't happen in the book.

Yeah, but the White Council and Azog were awful additions to the first movie. Well, maybe not Azog. He was a pretty shitty antagonist, though. I get that you need one for the first movie, but surely they could have come up with a more interesting motivation than "KILL DWARF WHO CUT OFF MY ARM BECAUSE RAWR." And the White Council scene was fun in theory, but on screen it just dragged on and on... So you see why I'm not interested in seeing what Legolas was up to while Bilbo was on his quest. At this point, I barely care about what Bilbo and the dwarves are doing, and now Jackson expects me to get invested in another subplot? Fuck that.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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