Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:
Doctor Submarine wrote:

I don't want Legolas back at all. He's not in the book, and he's only there for fanservice. Which is fine, whatever, bring him back for a cameo. But don't distract from the main storyline with some sappy romantic subplot between him and Elf-vangeline Lilly. A subplot which, by the way, looks to be wholly lifted from the Aragorn/Arwen story from LOTR, with the elf chick's father warning her not to go gallivanting off with the handsome rogue.

Wait...what?

Um, Thranduil is Legolas' father, not Tauriel's.

I don't think it distracts, and Legolas may not be in the book, but given the time line of events he should be there. That is Jackson's whole point, to flesh out the story with things that were happening as the Hobbit happened. The White Council, Azog are all technically things that don't happen in the book.

Yeah, but the White Council and Azog were awful additions to the first movie. Well, maybe not Azog. He was a pretty shitty antagonist, though. I get that you need one for the first movie, but surely they could have come up with a more interesting motivation than "KILL DWARF WHO CUT OFF MY ARM BECAUSE RAWR." And the White Council scene was fun in theory, but on screen it just dragged on and on... So you see why I'm not interested in seeing what Legolas was up to while Bilbo was on his quest. At this point, I barely care about what Bilbo and the dwarves are doing, and now Jackson expects me to get invested in another subplot? Fuck that.

Well, your mileage may vary (and obviously does), but I found the White Council and Dol Guldor parts very interesting in terms of fleshing out the mythology, and seeing Saruman in a different light.

Azog's motivation never bothered me because it is explained in the film well enough to satisfy me, at least.

I get why you don't care for it, and I'll grant that Tauriel is an annoying addition, but I have no problem with Legolas being there. Also, as for my own point of view, I don't see Legolas as one subplot, Thranduil as another, Bard and Beorn another and another. I see as characters participating in a much larger drama that unfolds with greater and greater consequences. So, I don't need to be as invested in each individual subplot, as I am already invested in the characters and the development of the world.

Hope that made some sort of sense...

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I didn't think the White Council scene dragged on at all, it worked for me. But I did think Azog sucked.

As for Taurolas, I'll bring up an idea I read somewhere else. Maybe Pete is setting up this relationship for Legolas so that he can lose it all to the forces of Sauron in the third movie (i.e. she gets killed), and maybe from there explain how he ended up at Rivendell in the Council of Elrond and why he was motivated to contribute to the fight against Sauron. Might be interesting, but also maybe no.

The second DoS trailer seemed more promising than the first for me. I liked the vibe and there was a lot of interesting stuff, but at the same time there were somethings that made me nervous about it; not the least of which being the fact that every frame has to look absolutely perfect, and a little cartoonish at times. What's with all the Legolas CG?

Also I think one of the bigger issues with this story as a whole so far is Thorin's character. He's pretty one-dimensional and I just can't bring myself to feel for him at all, or most of the dwarves for that matter. As a result, at this point in the story I don't really care if they take back Erebor. Plus, like Balin said, they built a pretty nice life for themselves since they lost their kingdom anyway. Thorin wants the mountain back for selfish reasons and I have a hard time rooting for that. Maybe that greed and selfishness will become more eminent and addressed in the next two movies as push starts inching closer to shove, but I felt like AUJ was telling me to root for people I didn't care for, and against people I didn't passionately hate.

After the first movie I'd say the only characters I'm 100% cheering for are Balin, Gandalf and Radagast. Bilbo too, but not as much. It seemed like his character started to come around by the end of the movie.

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Slightly unrelated, but I wish Saruman had been portrayed in a more positive light. I think it would have been much more powerful for the story had he been a good guy here, and not some shady character being a dick to Gandalf and Radaghast.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up +3 Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Isn't the whole thing about Saruman in LOTR that he actually used to be kinda a cool dude, but then he was corrupted by Sauron and then PLOT TWIST he's actually evil now guys.

Or did I just make that up along the way somewhere?

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I think adding Legolas makes more sense than not adding him. His father is featured in the story as the king of the Woodland elves, and all kinds of crazy stuff is going down in Middle Earth. His son, as we all know, is one bad son of a gun. If he wasn't involved, it would be nonsensical. Remember to separate the source material and keep in mind the presentation of the story of Middle Earth is being told in hindsight for film goers, not chronologically like the books.

Buenos Tardis   

Flickr     Letterboxd

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Such a good point about Saruman. Really playing him up as a good guy here would make his heel turn in LOTR have so much more weight to it.

Buenos Tardis   

Flickr     Letterboxd

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

BigDamnArtist wrote:

Isn't the whole thing about Saruman in LOTR that he actually used to be kinda a cool dude, but then he was corrupted by Sauron and then PLOT TWIST he's actually evil now guys.

Or did I just make that up along the way somewhere?

Nope, you're right on. Gandalf says at one point that Saruman was the greatest and wisest of them all. You get the feeling he really looked up to him. They do sort of show this second aspect in the movies.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

The one thread I'm really interested in for the next two movies is the Necromancer stuff. That's a plot thread that went nowhere in Unexpected Journey, but it looked soooooo much more interesting than Thorin's quest. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see if Jackson's going to extend the reach of these movies.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:

But don't distract from the main storyline with some sappy romantic subplot between him and Elf-vangeline Lilly. A subplot which, by the way, looks to be wholly lifted from the Aragorn/Arwen story from LOTR, with the elf chick's father warning her not to go gallivanting off with the handsome rogue.

Studio execs: we need something for the chicks, because they don't wanna just see 3 hours of cartoon action. Insert Twilight scene here, here and here.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:

The one thread I'm really interested in for the next two movies is the Necromancer stuff. That's a plot thread that went nowhere in Unexpected Journey, but it looked soooooo much more interesting than Thorin's quest. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see if Jackson's going to extend the reach of these movies.

Agreed. And the impression I'm getting is that will play a more significant role in this film.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Doctor Submarine wrote:

The one thread I'm really interested in for the next two movies is the Necromancer stuff. That's a plot thread that went nowhere in Unexpected Journey, but it looked soooooo much more interesting than Thorin's quest. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see if Jackson's going to extend the reach of these movies.

Me too.

As to Saruman, this is a part where Jackson falls in to the Prequel trap of assuming the audience knows that Saruman will turn so we will make him a dick because we know that he is. However, it is a part of the book that Saruman had little regard for Radaghast, so I was not as bothered by that part.

I also thought Radaghast batteling one of the Nazgul, however briefly, was pretty sweet. I am hoping for more of that with the Necromancer.

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I thought the reveal (of sorts) of the Necromancer was an awesome moment.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Say what you like about The Hobbit movie(s), but the extras on the AUJ Extended Edition set are fantastic. The 9 hours (holy crap!!) of content maintains the gold standard that LOTR set. Everyone participates, there's humour and drama and revelation and even introspection about negative aspects that bonus features usually don't cover in the interests of PR.
Fincher and Ridley Scott do good feature-length extras, but Peter Jackson's extras are epic.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I'm looking forward to Christmas for the EE. C'mon Santa, don't let me down!

How are the extra scenes?

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Aural Stimulation wrote:

I'm looking forward to Christmas for the EE. C'mon Santa, don't let me down!

How are the extra scenes?

The dozen or so minutes of extra scenes are not really worthwhile. There's more fart jokes with the dwarves carrying on like football hooligans at Rivendell. The humour just falls flat for me. It wasn't always successful in LOTR (drinking game, dwarf tossing, burping, etc) but here it's even worse.

So forget the few minutes of longer scenes, and look forward to the commentary and hours of superbly produced extras.

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Got it for $12.99 On Blu-Ray, with 2 discs of bonus material. Oh yeah.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

What a steal! I should probably track this down as I was waiting for this edition and I loved the extras overload on the LOTR discs.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

I work at the largest electronics retail in Scandinavia. We get a few deals every now and then smile

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

avatar wrote:
Aural Stimulation wrote:

I'm looking forward to Christmas for the EE. C'mon Santa, don't let me down!

How are the extra scenes?

The dozen or so minutes of extra scenes are not really worthwhile. There's more fart jokes with the dwarves carrying on like football hooligans at Rivendell. The humour just falls flat for me. It wasn't always successful in LOTR (drinking game, dwarf tossing, burping, etc) but here it's even worse.

So forget the few minutes of longer scenes, and look forward to the commentary and hours of superbly produced extras.

Some of the extended scenes are good but not all. The extras are very much worth it, delving in to so much of the production and actors and character development. I loved all of that stuff and well worth it.

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

fireproof78 wrote:

The extras are very much worth it, delving in to so much of the production and actors and character development. I loved all of that stuff and well worth it.

At least if Hobbit 2 & 3 are bland/lame, we'll have the superb extras to look forward to.

I'm surprised how 'honest' these behind-the-scenes are - very rare for tentpoles so soon after they're released. Ian McKellen is shown spitting the dummy at least twice, the production crew are shown resistant to Peter Jackson's hare-drawn sled idea (is he becoming Lucas?) , the actors who played goblins are shown disappointed at being replaced by digital goblins, the actors are shown workshopping the script in the council of Eldrond scene, the AD is shown impatient with Christopher Lee's endless stories, etc.

Last edited by avatar (2013-11-18 14:18:30)

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Before Gravity at the IMAX I had a rare (for me) opportunity to watch this trailer in 3d and it looked awful. Really gimmicky 3D and the fast action bits were very disorientating and indistinguishable.

Remember those holograms that would occasionally get put on the front of a VHS tape or toy package? You would look at them one way and a part of the image would show, changing the angle show another part. It reminded of that, a completely artificial representation of 3D. The dwarves stand on a cliff rock like they're on a part of the screen that is a pop-up book.

Needless to say, I'll be going to the 2D normalovision showing again, and hoping that someone, somewhere managed to reign in PJ's taste for the excessive.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

fireproof78 wrote:

Actually, I am surprised that Tolkien didn't have more women his stories, given his positive view of them but, to contrast, he was relating to a time when ladies roles were much different in society. The fact that Eowyn broke with her people's traditions and female role is interesting in of itself. It reflects a little more of Tolkien's attitudes more closely, I think.

My point exactly.

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

People always looks to Eowyn as the only example of a strong female character in the Lord of the Rings.

Let's not forget that the entire Elven race is pretty much ruled by one woman. Galadriel is the foremost power of the West, a founding member of the White Council and a wielder of a ring of power. While she doesn't fight in a battle during the main narrative, she's essentially the leader of the rebellion.

With her guidance and military prowess, she was able to rout a large attacking force set from Mordor and Dol Guldur across the Anduin. A victory they won four times. Her and her husband's army pushed back the Orc army and then turned their sights on Dol Guldur, where "Galadriel herself threw down its walls, and laid its pits bare."

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

Aural Stimulation wrote:

People always looks to Eowyn as the only example of a strong female character in the Lord of the Rings.

Let's not forget that the entire Elven race is pretty much ruled by one woman. Galadriel is the foremost power of the West, a founding member of the White Council and a wielder of a ring of power. While she doesn't fight in a battle during the main narrative, she's essentially the leader of the rebellion.

With her guidance and military prowess, she was able to rout a large attacking force set from Mordor and Dol Guldur across the Anduin. A victory they won four times. Her and her husband's army pushed back the Orc army and then turned their sights on Dol Guldur, where "Galadriel herself threw down its walls, and laid its pits bare."

That's one place where I think the musical did a better job than the films—Galadriel is one of the best characters in it, and her role is expanded to show how important a position she holds.

Last edited by Abbie (2013-11-20 17:32:14)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug teaser trailer

avatar wrote:
fireproof78 wrote:

The extras are very much worth it, delving in to so much of the production and actors and character development. I loved all of that stuff and well worth it.

At least if Hobbit 2 & 3 are bland/lame, we'll have the superb extras to look forward to.

I'm surprised how 'honest' these behind-the-scenes are - very rare for tentpoles so soon after they're released. Ian McKellen is shown spitting the dummy at least twice, the production crew are shown resistant to Peter Jackson's hare-drawn sled idea (is he becoming Lucas?) , the actors who played goblins are shown disappointed at being replaced by digital goblins, the actors are shown workshopping the script in the council of Eldrond scene, the AD is shown impatient with Christopher Lee's endless stories, etc.

I missed the AD part, but wow...really?

Anyway, I love the honesty of the BTS and making off featurettes. The actors are incredibly generous with their time and and I love the way they describe the process of getting in to character and working. Scene 88 is incredible.

As for Jackson's excess, I think he is becoming Lucas in the sense that he feels he will never get to visit Middle Earth again so he is pouring so much in to it, possibly without thinking. That may be one of the reasons Christopher Tolkien is getting so annoyed with the films is the amount of liberties they are taking due to Jackson's whim.

It is an incredible process that is going on, and I personally, am looking forward to seeing the rest of it unfold.

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down