Topic: Damn, Hollywood.

I feel like I just heard their side.

Someone mentioned this article recently - Trey, maybe? - and it's the sort of stuff we always talk about, but still, reading it was eye-opening.

Yeesh. Sell your stocks, everyone. Also if anyone wants to come build cabinets with me in Idaho, plane tickets are still available.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Steven Spielberg and George Lucas Predict Hollywood “Implosion;” Look Towards TV...

http://www.slashfilm.com/steven-spielbe … owards-tv/

not long to go now...

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Well, based off that article I just bought her book.  So I'm doing my part for that revenue stream at least...

Re: Damn, Hollywood.

I hope it all burns down, and we get a 70s style resurgence of low-budget creative projects.

Also, I call bullshit on a lot of that article. She talks about DVD sell-through as the holy-grail, except that Hollywood was doing just fine for 60 years before home-media was even a thing to be thinking about, so it seems weird as a crux for the collapse of everything. I suppose that combined with dropping theatrical attendance would do the trick, but she does a poor job of making that clear if that's her point. Also, I think the studios could absolutely get a good chunk of those revenues back via internet distribution if they got their act together and offered proper online distribution world-wide (instead of just the US) at reasonable prices.

It just blows my mind, EVERYTHING about making and distributing movies is easier and cheaper than it has been at any other point in history, yet the studios are terrified, and somehow spending and losing hundreds of millions of dollars on overblown tent-poles. If Shane Carruth can make a movie for 50 grand, do practically same-day self-distribution theatrically and online, and make a pretty big profit, there's no reason others can't follow.
What this tells me really, is that the studios are horribly mis-managed, with people who don't know what they're doing that are pissing the money away, and that deserve to collapse.

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

For that first 60 years the movie industry had a much bigger market to sell to - in the past few decades movies have consistently lost market share to television (there used to be maybe ten channels in any given market, now there are hundreds), video games, the internet, etc.  Home video has been keeping the studios alive while they continued to lose ground to all those other things.   

This is why they've been so adamant about paying low residuals on home video, through numerous strikes by writers and actors etc.

And studios would love to sell their product all over the world, all the time, as much as possible.  It just isn't that easy.   Countries have laws about foreign imports, they have their own movie industries to protect and promote, and there are a finite number of theaters in every country.   Overseas releases have all kinds of local conditions and restrictions to deal with - it's not a matter of picking a date and having theaters available.  They may not be.

For example, the only countries where Carruth's movie isn't for sale online already are the very few where the movie has yet to be released in theaters.   Releasing a movie in theaters requires the hiring of a distribution company who become partners in the release - they book the theaters and take a share of the profits etc.   So I'm guessing his movie isn't online in those markets because that was a requirement by the releasing company. Why go to all that effort to put out a niche movie with tiny market potential as it is - if it's already online?

Movie studios are scrambling to make use of all these new markets, but it's not easy... there are an awful lot of laws and union restrictions and global trade issues to hack through.   And all the while, the market for movies in general continues to shrink.

In the end, I suspect Spielberg and Lucas are right, tentpoles will become fewer, movie production in general will scale down, and that's not necessarily bad.  But there will be a lot more company failures along the way, and jobs will continue to disappear and never come back.

Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Also, back 60 years ago, didn't the film studios also own their theaters? Or something like that.

Anyways, totally with Keanu here.

Re: Damn, Hollywood.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL19/1338926/10041947/144323967.jpg

God loves you!

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Isn't this what you guys were talking about two years ago on The Intermission?

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Funny, I was about to make the same point. The Videogame industry has basically gone through the exact same thing as hollywood, but on an accelerated time-scale of about 15 years. Numerous video-game studios and publishers have gone out of business the last 5 years, and its gotten to the point that the only ones still around are either tiny indie game companies or massive studios making AAA titles for hundreds of millions of dollars. The budgets are definitely getting up there in the 150-200 million dollar range for many of these games now, and they face the same all or nothing problem, hence mostly game sequels to successful properties, or reboots of older titles.

In fact, I think the videogame industry may be a sign of what's to come for movies, because the last 3 years have seen a revolution in self-financing, crowd-funding, and digital distribution that have led to a huge resurgence and success for small indie-games. I wouldn't be surprised to see the film industry in a similar place in 10 years, with small production companies making content directly for web distributors like Netflix, or their own distribution channels.

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Holy shit. Without physical, they can't forecast sales?

The digital consumption metrics must be massively different, and with the speed of change there must be no solid historical data to use as a base for future projections. You've mentioned long-tail in the past, this indicates that doesn't really exist as we knew it any more.

Talk about watching the industry burn doesn't help - it's a business, profit is king. There must be some serious negotiation with Apple, Microsoft, and Sony about delivering content in to the home to try and rebuild reliable income streams. Netflix provides too much choice to the consumer for basically no risk to them - they don't need to decide between buying that film they know they like, and something they've never heard of - just watch both.

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Video games may crash first, simply because of the high costs to consumers. Studios are pushing out unfinished games, and consumers are getting pissed. A movie you can throw money at to finish quickly. Games, apparently, you can't. I'm not a big gamer, but the turkey that was Dragon Age 2 really got me angry. Take years to develop an incredibly deep game, then rush out a sequel that is incredibly incomplete (not to mention makes the actions of the first game pointless. Don't promise actions will matter if following through will be impossible).

Add to that the whole preorder system, and another crash probably is in the offering.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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12

Re: Damn, Hollywood.

As the changes to the industry play out over the coming years, I find that one of my biggest hopes is that it somehow brings about a return to the masses going to movies—as in, seeing movies in movie theaters. On Demand, iTunes, and streaming are awesome, and I don't want them to go away. But there's a generation of people who are more and more believing that the ideal way to see a movie is on their iPad. JJ Abrams was on Howard Stern a few weeks ago, and he joked that it's now almost possible for people to watch his latest movie on a screen that is smaller than the actual film on which the movie was shot. Which is kind of horrifying, in a way. [Hops down] Okay, done—anyone need this soapbox? 

P.S., Should any relocation to Idaho include the kidnapping of Fred Schneider so he can lead daily sing-alongs, count me in. I've got a good table saw I can bring, ideal for cabinet making.

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

I think we'll see budgets geared more to break-even at the box office, because at least that's a reasonably predictable metric.

This would probably mean a couple of things:

  • More formulaic, safe plots.

  • More off-shoring to get the look without the outlay.

  • Fewer releases with a focus on tent pole films.

  • Even more sequels.

It's not a pretty picture, but the players are losing their profit margin. Until things stabilise more I think most will buckle down (not all, you have to innovate to get out of a slump).

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it doesn't make good business to go with just a break-even mentality.  Movies are a product and all products need to make the business a profit.  If I put in a million dollars, and I only get that same million back, what's the point of doing business?

Last edited by switch (2013-06-19 22:38:23)

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

At which point film moves to becoming art, surrendering the mass market business part to TV. People making movies to make movies, and if one turns a profit as opposed to just paying for itself, great!

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Cinemas will be known as 'Mannies' by 2020, as in 'want to go to the mannies'?.  'cos they'll only be showing Bat MAN, Spider MAN, Super MAN, Iron MAN, etc. 

And it'll be hard to remember which sequel of which reboot we're up to.

Then DC and Marvel will merge their franchises in the great singularity event of 2024.

not long to go now...

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Avengers of Steel Caribbean Hobbits and Furious IV:  The Kitchen Sinkening

featuring Twilight Sparkle as Spiderman.  Special appearance by Hologram Ian MacKellen

Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Trey wrote:

Avengers of Steel Caribbean Hobbits and Furious IV:  The Kitchen Sinkening

featuring Twilight Sparkle as Spiderman.  Special appearance by Hologram Ian MacKellen

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zLRFtesTZds/UPSoZtAqORI/AAAAAAAAC4A/EmOZR7S5k2I/s1600/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpeg

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Damn, Hollywood.

You just know they'll end up making that Expendables-style team-up action movie starring digital versions of dead classic-era Hollywood actors, the one George Lucas was threatening to do for awhile. Orson Welles IS Batman, Cary Grant IS Superman, and....introducing Robert Downey Sr as Iron Man

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

cut twilight sparkle trey and i'm in. She just makes me sad now

Protection and power are overrated. I think you are very wise to choose happiness and love. -Uncle Iroh

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Dave wrote:

I think we'll see budgets geared more to break-even at the box office, because at least that's a reasonably predictable metric.

This would probably mean a couple of things:

  • More formulaic, safe plots.

  • More off-shoring to get the look without the outlay.

  • Fewer releases with a focus on tent pole films.

  • Even more sequels.

It's not a pretty picture, but the players are losing their profit margin. Until things stabilise more I think most will buckle down (not all, you have to innovate to get out of a slump).

No, we're talking about the future, not the present.

Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Aliens versus Jedis versus Superheroes versus The Enterprise versus Wizards versus Expendables versus Transformers versus Vampires versus Zombies versus Mutants versus Werewolves versus Dinosaurs versus James Bond versus everything that came out of the evelators in Cabin in the Woods versus The Tea Party versus Samuel L Jackson's cussing versus Ryan versus Dorkman versus Your Mom

not long to go now...

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

bullet3 wrote:

You just know they'll end up making that Expendables-style team-up action movie starring digital versions of dead classic-era Hollywood actors

I can't remember where I read this, it might even have been on the podcast but wasn't there a trend about 10 years ago where A-listers were being digitally scanned so that their young CG likeness could star in films forever more?

Extended Edition - 146 - The Rise Of Skywalker
VFX Reel | Twitter | IMDB | Blog

Re: Damn, Hollywood.

Faldor wrote:
bullet3 wrote:

You just know they'll end up making that Expendables-style team-up action movie starring digital versions of dead classic-era Hollywood actors

I can't remember where I read this, it might even have been on the podcast but wasn't there a trend about 10 years ago where A-listers were being digitally scanned so that their young CG likeness could star in films forever more?

With Benjamin Button technology, we could have a Star Wars Episode VII that follows directly on from ROTJ with the actors 'looking' the same. Tron Legacy attempted this - with mixed success - but it'll only get more sophisticated. Ultimately it'll become more a legal issue than a technological obstacle.

not long to go now...

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Re: Damn, Hollywood.

First off, I find it amazing that this woman was an editor for The New York Times, 'cause I find her writing style damn near unreadable.

Secondly, I'm confused as to why she seems so ignorant of the economics of her own industry. Certainly, I can understand being caught off guard by the speed of change Hollywood has been experiencing in recent years, but she started making movies before DVDs came to dominate a film's profit margins. I can't think of a single thing Peter Chernin tells her in his Santa Monica office with the ocean view that she has any right to claim is "mind boggling." The whole article makes her seem really, really dense.

Trey wrote:

[S]tudios would love to sell their product all over the world, all the time, as much as possible.  It just isn't that easy.   Countries have laws about foreign imports, they have their own movie industries to protect and promote, and there are a finite number of theaters in every country.   Overseas releases have all kinds of local conditions and restrictions to deal with - it's not a matter of picking a date and having theaters available.  They may not be.

I don't know if this is outside of your areas of expertise, but I would love for you guys to do an Intermission on international distribution, how it works (or doesn't work), and how it's influencing the industry. That was definitely the most interesting part of the article for me. The limited number of familiar faces and stories that are going to be able to sell a movie abroad could be really constraining for the big tent pole movies if they were to become more dependent on the international box office to make up for some of what they're not getting from lackluster DVD sales.

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