Topic: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

So I saw Days of Future Past, and largely liked it.  I came out of the theater perfectly happy with it as a film, if not elated.  Afterwards, I grabbed dinner with Teague and Cloe and mentioned, "I may have some fridge logic-y issues with it tomorrow, but nothing too bad, I don't think."

The next day, I found myself having some serious problems, but not in the way I expected.  I still largely liked DoFP, based mostly on the performances, the sense of fun inherit to a "we're getting the group together to do a thing," vibe, and my god, the editing which I was surprisingly impressed with.  The problem arose when I started thinking of this as an actual X-Men movie, because frankly....it isn't.  It then led me to this realization, which prompted me writing this review to begin with:

There has been exactly ONE movie about the X-Men.  There have been some decent movies with X-Men in it, and some real clunkers with the same amount of X-Men.  But an X-Men movie?   Yeah.  Only one.

In terms of comic book publishing, few comics have been so reactionary to the times as Uncanny X-Men #1 published in 1963.  At the height of the civil rights movement, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby made a comic book that was Science Fiction at it's most functional.  That is to say, it took a fantastic premise that dealt with timely struggles we as humans face.  Xavier and Magneto were thinly veiled analogs to MLK and Malcolm X, and the team Prof. X assembles were literally students fighting against radicalized discrimination.  For 100 issues, X-Men grappled with issues of prejudice, discrimination, and institutionalized hate.  It often punched upwards, as Stan Lee is a great creator if not a great writer, and lacked the skill to make these stories more meaningful than the average "bad guy in spandex hatches a plan," cliche. 

Speaking of Villain of the Month in Spandex, that's all Wolverine was meant to be.  If you're not a comic reader, you probably don't remember that Wolverine debuted as a villain in an issue of The Incredible Hulk.  If he was labeled as a mutant, it wasn't overt.  But to shake up sales, Marvel released, Giant Sized X-Men #1 in the mid 1970's, creating essentially a new X Men team.  The original 5 were being held on an island, and Prof X assembled an international crew consisting of Wolverine, Colossus, Banshee, Storm, Nightcrawler, Sunfire, and a couple others I'm sure.  Up until this point, the X-Men had a solid dynamic.  After this issue, only Cyclops would remain with the team, leading what would be called the "All New, All Different," X-Men.  But within a year, it was evident that Wolverine was the breakout star.  With the 70's came a shift towards the anti-hero modality (see also another 1970's villain turned anti-hero, The Punisher) and Wolverine became a nice counterweight to Cyclops and Prof. X's sometimes blind optimism and "twice as good," mentality.  It was a great balance to the TEAM dynamic, but the unintended consequence was that Wolverine ended up becoming the star of the X franchise, placing him on a singular iconic level, right alongside Captain America and Spider Man.  Wolverine got his own series, and by the early 1990's, Wolverine is the defacto leader of a fractured X-Men in the Australian outback (don't ask).  All of this coincided to the comic book industry bubble, which by 1993 had reached unparalleled heights.  Jim Lee was getting 1k per page to draw X-Men, Rob Liefeld was pooping on pages and calling it "drawing," for roughly a million dollars per scrunchy-face, and you just HAD to buy 5 copies  of "The Death of Superman," if you ever wanted to send your kids to college. 

I mention all of this at length because I think people wrongly associate Wolverine AS the reason X-Men works.  I think he's a great character, but the promise of the X-Men's premise has always been about two diametrically opposed positions to fighting for the oppressed, as represented by Xavier and Magneto.  It is because of this, that I feel pretty strongly in stating that the only movie actually about the X-Men, is X Men: First Class.  The rest of the films in the franchise have simply been iterations on Wolverine and His Amazing Friends.

While 2000's X-Men starts with a flashback of Magneto's past, and jumps to both Prof. X and Rogue in the present, make no mistake, that movie is ABOUT Wolverine.  He drives the movie's agency, he's the one who discovers the world, as it were.  He's as much of a keystone character as Rogue is, but Rogue never really DOES anything on her own.  Wolverine is the only X-Men to actually have anything resembling an arc.  Part of this is due to the complete hamstringing of the budget by Fox, helmed by Tom Rothman at the time, who reached near Peters-ian levels of source material hate.  Most of the post-Matrix action movie beats found in the third act reflect this.  It doesn't really hold up too well, as I discovered while rewatching for WAYDM, but the clarity of Wolverine's story is still front and center over any other character.

X-Men 2: X-Men United is a much stronger film, while being somehow even less about the X-Men.  Wolvie is still the main character, with Jean Grey and somehow Iceman getting more of a clear arc then the rest of the team.  Prof. X is practically an after thought.  Still, the addition of William Stryker (a military general in this film, a bit different then the fundamentalist preacher from the comic story, X Men: God Loves, Man Kills) brings some of the themes of the Xavier/Magneto dynamic to the forefront better than all but one of the other X-Men movies.  Unfortunately, all that is merely a backdrop to the personal struggles of one former Weapon X. 

X-Men: The Last Stand is...I mean.....kinda The Dark Phoenix story...I guess.  It's hard to say what this movie is when the movie isn't quite sure either.  Whereas X-Men 2 had a very focused through line to match Wolverine's arc, this film plays more like a telenovella with it's obsessions over interpersonal betrayals, love triangles, and clumsy psycho-sexual and messianic metaphors.  It's the worst of internetty cliches but, quite literally, there's nothing to see here, kids.

Which brings me to my point that X-Men: First Class is the real X-Men film.  By no means am I a comic purist.  The origin story here is nothing like the comics, quite to it's benefit.  One thing I will always give Singer praise for, is that adapting the comic storylines were more like cooking than baking.  That is to say, a little of this (Weapon X) some of that (God Loves Man Kills) a dash of this (fuck it, Dark Phoenix) and you end up with something pretty tasty.  XMFC follows this tradition with a brand new creative team equally well.  By recentering the film's narrative around the relationship between Xavier and Magneto, the film recenters the theme back to what the comics were about.  Hiring Fassbender and McAvoy and having them attack the material as if it's MacBeth certainly doesn't hurt either.  The lack of Wolverine frees the film up to explore a much more diverse cast of characters, most of whom have enough of a backstory and an arc to make you care about them.  I'm sure the Friends in Your Head will eventually cover First Class, and I hope we do.  On top of being the only actual X-Men film that's about the X-Men, it's easily the best film of the series.

Which isn't to say that X-Men: Days of Future Past isn't a bad film.  I think it's fine (sorry, Dorkman) it just for some reason makes Wolverine and his struggles THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO MANKIND, YOU GUYS.  He literally has the most important job in the history of mankind.  It's kinda hard to build on the really awesome foundation that First Class left us, when Wolverine has to save the day again.  I liked it as a movie...just not as an X-Men movie.  This ultimately left me not only wanting for a true sequel to XMFC, but with this disappointing feeling that the franchise is going backwards instead of forwards.  Which when you think about it, is antithetical to what the X-Men are supposed to be about to begin with.

Last edited by Eddie (2014-05-30 18:48:56)

Eddie Doty

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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

I had no intention of writing as much as I did. Sorry to those who choose to slog through it, but Eddie got my brain-gears turning.

I haven't seen Days of Future Past yet, I'm going this weekend and I'm looking forward to it, based on the trailers. In the run-up to it I rewatched all the X-Men movies, because I hadn't seen any of the first trilogy since 2006 and I hadn't seen First Class since the theater. I figured it would do me some good to refamiliarize myself before DoFP rewrote everything. My memory of the films were that they were all quite good, with Last Stand not being as bad as people say, and about on par with the first one, which was decent, and then X2 and First Class being very good films.

After the rewatch, my feeling is that there's really only one worthwhile film in the bunch, and that's X2. The rest are pretty mediocre.

Let me start by saying that I never read the comics. I was a DC kid, not by choice, that's just how my tastes tended to skew. I picked up one issue of X-Men when I was about eight, and there were three different storylines with like fifteen different characters set on Earth and possibly also a desert planet of some kind maybe? I was completely unable to grasp the story and thus abandoned X-Men altogether. Before that I had seen the animated series a bit, but I was never a loyal viewer.

So I don't care how faithful they are to the comics at all, and I have no idea what riches they haven't yet mined. I'm observing them strictly as a series of films.

X-Men is a decent introduction. It establishes the world pretty clearly and efficiently, sets up Xavier and Magneto and their central conflict, and introduces us to Wolverine. That's about it. The plot is comic booky in a very dopey way, and Magneto's plot is scientifically... not science at all, which I find jarring in a series that plays it as straight as this one does. Any character who's not Wolverine, Rogue, or Magneto receives little to no development. And it's HEAVILY coated in the style of the time, with the Matrix-y leather and wire-fu action, like you said. Wolverine swinging around on Lady Liberty's hat hasn't aged nearly as gracefully as bullet time.

X-2 is a really good action film. It's got a better sense of pace than the first, Bryan Singer's more confident with the action, and all the set-up is out of the way. Wolverine gets more development, Jean and Storm are actually kind of given something to do, and Nightcrawler is a great addition to the cast. It's still a big dumb blockbuster, but it's very well made and entertaining. I could nitpick the movie on little things, and certainly did while watching, but it's solid.

The Last Stand... I still don't hate it. I still don't think it's MUCH worse than the first film, and most of the faults I don't believe are due to Brett Ratner. I don't know why he's so vilified, he's a perfectly competent, workmanlike filmmaker. On a scene-by-scene basis, there's really not much overtly BAD about the movie. But it's an hour and twenty minutes of set-up, and then twenty minutes of "final battle" action that the franchise, and certainly the film itself, hasn't earned. There's no real plot that's ever put in motion, and the decision to tackle both the Dark Phoenix story and the cure is baffling, as they have no impact upon one another. In my memory version of the film I had Wolverine stabbing Jean with the cure to stop her from Dark Phoenixing all over the island, but there's not even that. Dude just stabs her with his wrist-knives.

First Class, as I said, I remembered as being a pretty strong film. However watching it with the context of the series fresher in my mind... I didn't really enjoy it too much. I think my primary dissatisfaction stems from the lack of clarity on what it wants to be. It breaks continuity with previous films so frequently that it feels like it's trying to be a reboot, but it's written like a prequel. This is a problem I have with most prequels (looking at you, The Hobbit), where they're not trying to function as an introduction to the world for the benefit of later chronological viewings, they function under the assumption that everybody has already seen the first films. For example Cerebro, they don't explain it nearly as well as X-Men does, because you've seen X-Men and they've already established it. But they change it from being something Xavier and Magneto work on together to something McCoy has already built. And the film is just riddled with things like that. Even the relationships between characters are established through shorthand, but they've so radically changed the nature of those relationships with decisions such as having Mystique and Xavier be essentially foster siblings. It's confused and confusing.

On top of that, the film lacks a genuine throughline in the plot, and so many scenes feel like treading water. Kevin Bacon's hammy brand of villainy is at odds with the work Fassbender and McAvoy are doing. There are so many moments that exist just to tick boxes, like Xavier getting paralyzed. It's messily handled, it comes out of nowhere, it has no impact, and it's wholly unnecessary to the story they're telling. Plus it means the friendship Charles and Erik frequently refer to in the other films lasted all of a week. It's a deeply flawed movie with an amazing cast, stellar production design, and slick direction.

And if I'm being really petty, there are some godawful visual effects in the film.

That was the big surprise of my rewatch, was how far First Class fell. I genuinely think it may be the weakest of the X-Men films. Though now I question the value of the X-Men film franchise overall. Even the spin-offs, Origins was hot garbage and The Wolverine was two-thirds of a great Clint Eastwood film that turned into a Wolfenstein level at the end. And not in a good way.

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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

Eddie wrote:

Which isn't to say that X-Men: Days of Future Past is a bad film.  I think it's fine (sorry, Dorkman)

...

This ultimately left me ... with this disappointing feeling that the franchise is going backwards instead of forwards.

My agreement with the second point is precisely why I disagree with the first. But YMMV.

Anyway, I agree that XMFC is the best and my favorite of the series, and its non-reliance on Wolverine is probably a large part of why.

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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

I think DOFP works on it's own as a movie.  I enjoyed it.  But in terms of living up to te theme, that's where the digression occurs, I think.

Eddie Doty

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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

I didn't mind Last Stand, but I hated First Class with great ferocity. I honestly can't fathom why people like it or Jennifer "I'm Unfamiliar With Your Hyoo-man Facial Expressions" Lawrence.

Warning: I'm probably rewriting this post as you read it.

Zarban's House of Commentaries

Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

Zarban wrote:

I didn't mind Last Stand, but I hated First Class with great ferocity. I honestly can't fathom why people like it or Jennifer "I'm Unfamiliar With Your Hyoo-man Facial Expressions" Lawrence.

I can't remember enough of Last Stand to even form an opinion of it. But I'm firmly in the camp of not seeing what the big deal with First Class was/is. I remember (it has been a while) having some serious structural issues with it, and it just throwing away any shred of credibility or in-world logic it had managed to gain with me. And then yeah, I remember some pretty not great effects, and the entire thing was just left me feeling..."myeh, sure, that happened, I guess." Not hate, just confusion at why this was anything other than another movie like this.

-shrug- Should probably rewatch it and see if my opinion's changed.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

I want to reiterate my point here.  I'm not talking about overall quality of each film, I'm talking about wether or not they were movies ABOUT the Xmen.  It's like Superman Returns.  It's not about Superman, it's about Lois Lane and a guy who lifts stuff.

Eddie Doty

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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

First Class is like half of a fantastic movie, and then half of a lame teen movie. Any time it's Magneto or Xavier doing stuff, it's fantastic, but then all the side-mutants it introduces really suck, and Jennifer Lawrence is AWFUL. I think she's a terrible Mystique, and the writing of the character does her no favors.

Still, you get great moments like Magneto lifting the submarine. Probably my favorite beat from any of these movies.

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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

I rewatched the entire franchise before going in on DofP.

X-men is a pretty small film. I hadn't watched since around 2006, and I remembered it as being longer and bigger. It bummed me out to watch it now, as it hasn't aged that well, and looks very old, in terms of picture quality and grading, but that put aside, it still hit all the points it did back then, even though Storm's "toad" line is still atrocious.

X-2 is still the strongest of the original three. Wolverine or not(I'm one of those idiots that like him), it's got my favorite X-man in there. Nightcrawler is pretty awesomely done, and while his origin story differs a bit from the comics(which is fine, I don't mind), the film made me want to go out and shoot a BAMF test again, which is nice. The action beats are a lot better, and the general flow is much better than the first one.

X 3 isn't as bad as everyone says it is, but it's the poorest X-men film there is. It's still got lots of cool characters, and some cool action bits, but plot wise it's a disaster, and the whole Dark Phoenix thing just felt forced upon an otherwise decent script to have a sub-plot. Which in turn isn't the sub-plot and it's all a clusterfuck.

Then, naturally, I watched the films in released order, and continued on to:

X-Men Origins - Wolverine. I'm an apologist, and there are some REALLY good parts in this(the war montage, and the lumberjack scenes, for instance), but once it hits act 3, it just makes me want to turn it off and go play in a pool of syringes. If they kept Deadpool out of it, and stopped trying to bring "cameos" from other X-men in, it might've worked, but it didn't.

X-Men First Class. I don't know, I'm still loving the hell out of it. The lack of Wolverine? Maybe. He wouldn't fit in it for sure, but I think Fassbender, McAvoy and Lawrence's performances are really, really great, and potentially what holds it together. It too, screws with the continuity of the series, unless Moira has a daughter or something to appear in X-Men 3.

The Wolverine, is one of the worst films I've seen in recent years. I naturally didn't watch it again for this, as I didn't feel I had to, and also it's pretty new already and I don't like it one bit.


All in all, though, I think DofP was great. It's a major fan-service, if nothing else, and I for one, was incredibly pleased with everything in it.

Does it screw around with continuity? Sure. For starters, Prof. X is in it. Last I saw him, continuity wise, he was disintegrated.

But I don't really care. I liked almost everything about it still. I guess X-men to me is what Transformers must be for everyone else. Great stuff.


(I hate Transformers. Like, with a passion)

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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

Ugh.
I can't, I just-- there's so many opinions and I've been talking about these movies for fourteen years...

1 - Yep.
This is always a competitor for my favorite. I love the simplicity, particularly the Logan/Rogue story and we actually get to spend time with Cyclops being Cyclops (my fave X-Man).

2 - More yep (but where did Storm's accent go?)
Everyone loves this one, I don't even have to say things.

3 - Ugh. Why did you do this to yourself? "Class five mutant"? Phoenix is a split personality now? Go home, movie. You're an idiot.
When Wolverine and Cyclops hugged at the end of X2, did they swap personalities? Is that one of their powers?

Origins - Why is the opening credits not the story you chose to tell? No, let's retcon things and do a standard betrayal/revenge plot. Do you love misc. X-Men characters? Good, because this movie likes to kill and/or use them in pointless ways!

FC - Nice. I mean, those are not the First Class characters and no one except Charles, Mystique or Magneto really matter at the end of the movie, but tying it into the Cuban Missle Crisis was good thinking (tho not the first scifi story to focus on that event. Check out SeaQuest's "Second Chance" sometime). Magneto, omg. This was originally going to be "Magneto Origins" but I'm guessing someone said it has to be about the good guys and it shows.

TW - Okay, now that's how you do Wolverine/revenge movie. This story originally happened before Wolverine met the X-Men, but whatever, good job.

DofP - Hey look, it's an X-Men movie. Like, this is how X-Men comics read. If the other movies didn't exist, this would still work, just like picking up any random issue.
It only took 14 years, but I got my iced-up Iceman doing the ice slide. Thank you, Bryan Singer. You have done alright by me (but you still have odd taste in character design).


AND THAT'S ALL I WILL SAY
[huddles in corner hugging Jim Lee comics]

Last edited by Vapes (2014-05-31 17:32:51)

"Defending bad movies is VaporTrail's religion."
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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

BigDamnArtist wrote:
Zarban wrote:

I didn't mind Last Stand, but I hated First Class with great ferocity. I honestly can't fathom why people like it or Jennifer "I'm Unfamiliar With Your Hyoo-man Facial Expressions" Lawrence.

I can't remember enough of Last Stand to even form an opinion of it. But I'm firmly in the camp of not seeing what the big deal with First Class was/is. I remember (it has been a while) having some serious structural issues with it, and it just throwing away any shred of credibility or in-world logic it had managed to gain with me. And then yeah, I remember some pretty not great effects, and the entire thing was just left me feeling..."myeh, sure, that happened, I guess." Not hate, just confusion at why this was anything other than another movie like this.

-shrug- Should probably rewatch it and see if my opinion's changed.

That's the same way I felt, I didn't understand all the praise. When it was released, there were some people saying First Class was the best super hero movie EVER. Hah. Feh. No. It kind of made me lose a lot of interest in X-Men movies. I just got tired of them. Then when The Wolverine came around I had no desire to see it. I did eventually see it on Blu-ray and enjoyed it well enough I guess. I thought DoFP was at least better than those two, enjoyable enough; but I'm still a little tired of these movies. I don't know what it is. Maybe because it's all sort of episodic and not really leading toward any sort of ending. Maybe the characters just don't really captivate me. I don't know.

And I agree about the J-Law craze. I just don't get it. She may be a really cool person, but that's got nothing to do with her acting. I don't think she's a bad actor, but again, I don't understand all the praise.

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Re: X-Men: The Whole Damn Franchise, by Eddie

First Class isn't J-Law's best moment, she's still a little rough around the edges. Silver Linings Playbook is what really got me hooked on her, though I guess Hunger Games and First Class kinda pointed me in that direction.

IIRC she was pretty good in DofP, but she is not the part of that film that's been playing on repeat in my mind.
(Yeah, it's the ice slide. Seriously, YEARS I've been waiting to see that. Decades even, if you count pre-movie times!)

Last edited by Vapes (2014-06-01 06:25:50)

"Defending bad movies is VaporTrail's religion."
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