Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Hijacking this to say that 4 was pretty much everything that was bad about the first 3, only worse.

And racist.

But goddamn, even in that movie I couldn't hate Tucci.

"Most people don't even know what sysadmins do, but trust me, if they all took a lunch break at the same time they wouldn't make it to the deli before you ran out of bullets protecting your canned goods from roving bands of mutants."

-- http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

I saw Tucci today.

He drives a Mercedes SUV, and sometimes he does it in Burbank.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

avatar wrote:

Michael Bay Traded To Afghanistan For Five Taliban Film and TV Directors

http://hollywoodandswine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/michael-bay.jpg

http://hollywoodandswine.com/michael-ba … directors/

The Taliban do not have enough explosives to satisfy Bay. Just saying.

Also, as a quick follow up comment to the whole CinemaSins thing and film review, they do not call themselves reviewers. They call themselves "assholes." I get that some people will take them seriously in their film comments, but I doubt those people would regard any other film review with any more critical thinking.

Now, since I am hijacking this thread about hypothetical movie audience, I don't mean to be insulting towards the average movie-going view, or YouTube viewer. What I mean is that the average person watching Nostalgia Critic or CinemaSins or Honest trailers or Confused Matthew or what have you are not going to delve deeper in to the film beyond initial reactions. Videos like those sometimes just give a different voice to what they may have previously felt about the film.

Transformers is just the perfect evidence for this. Things blow up for...reasons, and people go and enjoy it. End of story.

The wonderful folks here who delve deep in to the films, may be those reviews are not for you. But, the idea that they some how diminish the world of film reviews is something I find a bit odd, but I find most things odd. So, call it a difference of opinion.

And Holden, how Tucci was Tucci?

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

That is actually a really valid point, for a lot of people, and I'm not even speaking to their intelligence or anything, simple fact is some people, a lot of people,  DON'T CARE movies in the same way we all do. They don't think about, it doesn't even register that that is something they should want to think about. Movies are a fun night out to enjoy with friends or kill some time in a somewhat enjoyable way. They're definitely not the kind of people that are going to read reviews with a critical eye, if they read reviews at all it'll be to find out if a movies worth spending 12 bucks on, full stop.

CinemasSins/Honest Trailers could be seen as a gateway drug into that world, a primarily comedy based method of getting across some funny jokes but also sneaking in a bit of deeper criticism that a large part of the audience would never have even considering thinking about.

Is it going to be the best way to get accross EVERY SINGLE point in a 100% ACCURATE way? No.

But then we don't throw 5th year University MicroBiology textbooks at 6 year olds either.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Film Crit Hulk put it pretty well in this column.

Here's a de-capitalization site if ALL CAPS makes your eyes hurt.

     Christ, that was way too damn long and repetitive. I'm still reading it but I needed to come back here and suggest that this whole topic should be an Intermission (call it "Plot Hole Criticism" or something). Also, I'm very curious to know what Trey thinks of all this. I mean, a lot of people disliked The Dark Knight Rises for this very specific reason: All the plot holes. I rather like the film, still because the previous two films have their own share of plot holes. Character means the most to me, above story and plot. It's why I continue to love all of LOST, including the ending.

     Having said that, I do believe there is value to be had in this kind of plot-hole-structure-logic approach to critiquing movies. To me, the answer "Because then there would be no movie" is a cheap, lazy cop-out in and of itself. I feel like if your script is tight enough and well thought out, people wouldn't even be asking some of these questions. "Why doesn't the hero just do BLANK?" It's the movie's job to provide an answer on the screen. "The victim in the Horror movie can't just call for help because their phone is clearly dead/broken/gone" is a much better answer than, "Because then the movie would be over so shut up and don't think about it."

     It's like a complete dismissal of Fridge Logic. We'll just invalidate Fridge Logic as a worthwhile form of criticism. That way, we can do whatever we want because it doesn't matter. All that matters is WHY people are watching Indiana Jones falling a mile down a waterfall in an inflatable lifeboat and surviving. That's another thing that bugs me about the article. It's too didactic and fascist in how people digest "art", which by its very nature is subjective. It's telling people how to think and feel and I don't support that. People go to movies for all sorts of reasons, not just the single one the article states.

     People can be empathetic towards Indiana Jones all day long and they could be totally loving his adventures they're in the middle of but if his hiding in a refrigerator to survive a nuclear blast, only to be tossed into the air and hit the ground and also survive just breaks the movie for them and takes them out of it, then I think that's valid (For the record, I'm one of the few people who enjoyed Crystal Skull because quite frankly, they're all that preposterous in one way or another). It's not necessarily about the characters fucking up and making bad choices. That's all well and good. You can't have conflict resolution without conflict. The issue for a lot of people is when the movie itself, through its screenwriting, directing or both fucks up and makes bad choices.

     Then again, maybe like others here, I just find Honest Trailers and Cinema Sins really funny and while it may occasionally make me go, "Oh hey, yeah! I hadn't noticed or thought of that before!" my mind is already made up about a film and these videos aren't going to make me like it or hate it any more or less. First and foremost, they're there to make you laugh. It's not a film studies class. Though there may be people who treat it as such and take it seriously, one shouldn't hold the videos and its makers accountable for that. It's a separate issue. Hate the "fans" for their own personal "stupidity" if you must but don't blame the creators for the actions of others.

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

I get that Fridge Logic / Plot Hole Critiquing / Whatever can come across as really inconsistent and hypocritical at times, but the way I see it, is that each movie has a set of scales. If a film does enough little things right (and at the right times. ebb and flow, rhythm and structure and all that) it can weigh down the scale one way, so that when something ridiculous comes along, it doesn't tip the scale back into "Noooope! I'm OUT."

If Karl had hunted McClane down by following his bloody footprints as soon as that flashbang cleared, bad guys win, end of movie. But Die Hard does almost everything else perfectly, so I don't care.
The ending of Edge of Tomorrow probably has serious issues, but I haven't questioned it yet, 'cause I walked out of the cinema with a smile on my face.
And you're right. People direct a lot of criticisms at Crystal Skull that can be aimed at other films (the raft in Temple of Doom is pretty much the same thing as the fridge, I agree). But! Crystal Skull is almost entirely devoid of all those little moments in the other movies that buy goodwill.
As for Dark Knight Rises, I never really heard people state that the plot holes were why they didn't like it. The other movies had plot holes too. I think the film (for me, anyway) just didn't buy enough goodwill (or would buy goodwill and then lose it) because thematically, it felt inconsistent and not clear about what it was saying.

Disclaimer: if you dislike the tone of a post I make, re-read it in a North/East London accent until it sounds sufficiently playful smile

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Imagine watching all three at once...

not long to go now...

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

johnpavlich wrote:
Doctor Submarine wrote:

Film Crit Hulk put it pretty well in this column.

Here's a de-capitalization site if ALL CAPS makes your eyes hurt.

     Christ, that was way too damn long and repetitive. I'm still reading it but I needed to come back here and suggest that this whole topic should be an Intermission (call it "Plot Hole Criticism" or something). Also, I'm very curious to know what Trey thinks of all this. I mean, a lot of people disliked The Dark Knight Rises for this very specific reason: All the plot holes. I rather like the film, still because the previous two films have their own share of plot holes. Character means the most to me, above story and plot. It's why I continue to love all of LOST, including the ending.

     Having said that, I do believe there is value to be had in this kind of plot-hole-structure-logic approach to critiquing movies. To me, the answer "Because then there would be no movie" is a cheap, lazy cop-out in and of itself. I feel like if your script is tight enough and well thought out, people wouldn't even be asking some of these questions. "Why doesn't the hero just do BLANK?" It's the movie's job to provide an answer on the screen. "The victim in the Horror movie can't just call for help because their phone is clearly dead/broken/gone" is a much better answer than, "Because then the movie would be over so shut up and don't think about it."

     It's like a complete dismissal of Fridge Logic. We'll just invalidate Fridge Logic as a worthwhile form of criticism. That way, we can do whatever we want because it doesn't matter. All that matters is WHY people are watching Indiana Jones falling a mile down a waterfall in an inflatable lifeboat and surviving. That's another thing that bugs me about the article. It's too didactic and fascist in how people digest "art", which by its very nature is subjective. It's telling people how to think and feel and I don't support that. People go to movies for all sorts of reasons, not just the single one the article states.

     People can be empathetic towards Indiana Jones all day long and they could be totally loving his adventures they're in the middle of but if his hiding in a refrigerator to survive a nuclear blast, only to be tossed into the air and hit the ground and also survive just breaks the movie for them and takes them out of it, then I think that's valid (For the record, I'm one of the few people who enjoyed Crystal Skull because quite frankly, they're all that preposterous in one way or another). It's not necessarily about the characters fucking up and making bad choices. That's all well and good. You can't have conflict resolution without conflict. The issue for a lot of people is when the movie itself, through its screenwriting, directing or both fucks up and makes bad choices.

     Then again, maybe like others here, I just find Honest Trailers and Cinema Sins really funny and while it may occasionally make me go, "Oh hey, yeah! I hadn't noticed or thought of that before!" my mind is already made up about a film and these videos aren't going to make me like it or hate it any more or less. First and foremost, they're there to make you laugh. It's not a film studies class. Though there may be people who treat it as such and take it seriously, one shouldn't hold the videos and its makers accountable for that. It's a separate issue. Hate the "fans" for their own personal "stupidity" if you must but don't blame the creators for the actions of others.

I just think it's a bad way of looking at film. There's a lot more to film than the very basic plot "analysis" that you'll get with CinemaSins or whatever, and people who watch those videos might not ever open up to that. I think that's what Film Crit Hulk is trying to say, and I agree.

It's not a movie's job to conform to your definition of logic. It's presenting you with a world where logic works like this, and in most cases it's unfair to dwell on whether or not these things could've "really happened." I see this complaint all the time: "Well, X would've never done that!" Well, X DID do that. You just saw it happen. There are reasons to find the fridge moment in Crystal Skull ridiculous. The main one, imo, is that it makes Indy into an invulnerable superhero, thus invalidating one of his most interesting character traits, that being his vulnerability. It doesn't work because it's not playing by the rules that the movie has previously established. Whether or not it plays by the rules of REALITY should be off the table. This is a series where a guy's face melted off because he opened a box. Fridge Logic is bullshit. It's certainly not a "worthwhile form of criticism," because that implies that it's criticism at all. Remember that the idea was popularized by Hitchcock, who mocked these types of moviegoers. He also called them "implausibles," I think, and dismissed their attitude towards his films as pointless. And he was right. Fridge Logic as a concept is fine. I think we can all agree that there's nothing wrong with thinking about a film after you've seen it. It's the focus on it that's a problem. If you spend all your time thinking about a film in terms of what "made sense" then you're going to miss out on a SHIT-TON of stuff that's actually WORTH thinking about.

Narrative criticism is a vital part of film criticism in general (which is why I value FIYH so much), but this nitpicky nonsense is throttling the critical landscape. It serves no real purpose other than maybe as IMDb trivia. The problem is the treatment of these things as "sins." It's okay to point out a continuity error, but implying that a continuity error somehow has a negative impact on the film is ridiculous. And that's what CinemaSins and Honest Trailers are implying. They're not presenting themselves as trivia. They're presenting themselves as detectives, rooting out the "problems" with these films and presenting them for all to see. They're acting like they're better than these movies. You guys can call it "comedy" all you like. It's condescension, plain and simple. That's what "snark" is, and CinemaSins/Honest Trailers/Nostalgia Critic are nothing if not snarky.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

fireproof78 wrote:

And Holden, how Tucci was Tucci?

Tucci Prime. So Tucci, in fact, that they gave him the one "fuck" of the movie.

"Most people don't even know what sysadmins do, but trust me, if they all took a lunch break at the same time they wouldn't make it to the deli before you ran out of bullets protecting your canned goods from roving bands of mutants."

-- http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

johnpavlich wrote:

It's like a complete dismissal of Fridge Logic. We'll just invalidate Fridge Logic as a worthwhile form of criticism. That way, we can do whatever we want because it doesn't matter. All that matters is WHY people are watching Indiana Jones falling a mile down a waterfall in an inflatable lifeboat and surviving.

Fridge Logic IS an invalid form of criticism, to a large extent, because by definition it's something you didn't notice until well after the film was over. It actually goes to the central point of the article -- at least what I think the central point is, FCH makes my eyes glaze over a bit -- which is that a logical problem is only a problem if it takes you out of the story. If it would take a bunch of plot gymnastics to justify something people aren't going to care about in the moment, the moment is more important. Something completely logically consistent but dull as a result is far inferior to something inconsistent but so engaging you don't care.

Fridge Logic is not completely irrelevant, as the problems can compound and make it difficult or impossible to enjoy the movie on repeat viewings, which is what I think separates an enjoyable movie from a classic. But it's not the main course as criticism goes.

Your Indy example is not Fridge Logic because that's something that stands out as you're watching it. When plotting issues distract from the story even the first time, that's when they become huge problems.

Last edited by Dorkman (2014-06-27 17:21:44)

Thumbs up +2 Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Dorkman wrote:
johnpavlich wrote:

It's like a complete dismissal of Fridge Logic. We'll just invalidate Fridge Logic as a worthwhile form of criticism. That way, we can do whatever we want because it doesn't matter. All that matters is WHY people are watching Indiana Jones falling a mile down a waterfall in an inflatable lifeboat and surviving.

Fridge Logic IS an invalid form of criticism, to a large extent, because by definition it's something you didn't notice until well after the film was over. It actually goes to the central point of the article -- at least what I think the central point is, FCH makes my eyes glaze over a bit -- which is that a logical problem is only a problem if it takes you out of the story. If it would take a bunch of plot gymnastics to justify something people aren't going to care about in the moment, the moment is more important. Something completely logically consistent but dull as a result is far inferior to something inconsistent but so engaging you don't care.

Fridge Logic is not completely irrelevant, as the problems can compound and make it difficult or impossible to enjoy the movie on repeat viewings, which is what I think separates an enjoyable movie from a classic. But it's not the main course as criticism goes.

Your Indy example is not Fridge Logic because that's something that stands out as you're watching it. When plotting issues distract from the story even the first time, that's when they become huge problems.

     Fair enough. I was just using Fridge Logic as an example. I do agree with your point about logic versus engagement WHILE watching something. If enough of that occurs as you're watching, to the point where you have to do all sorts of work to make it okay so you can still end on a satisfied note and especially if you don't succeed, then I think that's a big problem and worth discussing. Again, I'd really like to hear what Trey has to say and now that I really think about it, Teague as well. I really think this would be an interesting Intermission episode.

     I've listened to the Prometheus episode of WAYDM many times, as it's one of my favorites and I feel as though FCH and others are trying to invalidate much of that episode as nitpicky bullshit, as if to say, "Who cares? Stop over thinking it! It's not important! Just shut off your brain and enjoy the sci-fi action!" Obviously, you guys care (and so do I), hence the whole conversation about filling in your own concrete and how doing that for too long or for too much of the film can leave one with a bad experience.

Last edited by johnpavlich (2014-06-27 18:01:17)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Fun fact, because of you sorry goddamned assholes, we're doing an intermission this weekend called PLOT HOLE FILM CRITICISM.

So, good job Doc and Pav and Herc and BDA. You MESSED UP OUR WEEKEND.

*cries, runs away foppishly*

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up +2 Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Doctor Submarine wrote:

Oh hey, as if on cue, we get this article from the AV Club wherein the site's writers describe their own personal "pop culture hells." Here's the relevant quote:

Todd VanDerWerff wrote:

I think mine would have to be getting to watch movies and TV shows with an audience full of people who think pointing out the most minor of nitpicks counts as criticism. The spread of the “Cinema Sins” style of YouTube criticism might seem innocuous to many, but underneath it all there’s this pernicious belief that criticism is applied not to the whole of a work but to its bits and pieces. These videos often seem to confuse “pointing out continuity errors and logical inconsistencies” with offering insightful thoughts on a work. Don’t get me wrong: A great, scathing review is one of the best pleasures in life. But these are not assembled via the anal-retentive means these videos apply. And while I liked Mystery Science Theater 3000 more than almost anything, I’m pretty sure I don’t want to watch a movie with someone shouting at it if they’re not a robot with a gumball-machine body.

johnpavlich wrote:

Fair enough. I was just using Fridge Logic as an example. I do agree with your point about logic versus engagement WHILE watching something. If enough of that occurs as you're watching, to the point where you have to do all sorts of work to make it okay so you can still end on a satisfied note and especially if you don't succeed, then I think that's a big problem and worth discussing. Again, I'd really like to hear what Trey has to say and now that I really think about it, Teague as well. I really think this would be an interesting Intermission episode.
   
  I've listened to the Prometheus episode of WAYDM many times, as it's one of my favorites and I feel as though FCM and others are trying to invalidate much of that episode as nitpicky bullshit, as if to say, "Who cares? Stop over thinking it! It's not important! Just shut off your brain and enjoy the sci-fi action!" Obviously, you guys care (and so do I), hence the whole conversation about filling in your own concrete and how doing that for too long or for too much of the film can leave one with a bad experience.

I haven't listened to the Prometheus episode in a while, but I remember the overall problems with that film being inconsistencies in the story's structure and themes. And I certainly don't think anyone is advocating "turning your brain off." I'm just saying that we should turn our brains in a different direction.

Teague wrote:

Fun fact, because of you sorry goddamned assholes, we're doing an intermission this weekend called PLOT HOLE FILM CRITICISM.

So, good job Doc and Pav and Herc and BDA. You MESSED UP OUR WEEKEND.

*cries, runs away foppishly*

Ooh, I hope I can make it to the chat!

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Holden wrote:

Hijacking this to say that 4 was pretty much everything that was bad about the first 3, only worse.

And racist.

But goddamn, even in that movie I couldn't hate Tucci.

http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/1403791520-2014-06-27-fresh.png

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Teague wrote:

Fun fact, because of you sorry goddamned assholes, we're doing an intermission this weekend called PLOT HOLE FILM CRITICISM.

So, good job Doc and Pav and Herc and BDA. You MESSED UP OUR WEEKEND.

*cries, runs away foppishly*

.....Yay? smile

Wow, I had no idea so many people hated such silliness as Cinema Sins and Honest Trailers. I guess it boils down to what one considers to be "minor nitpicking" and what one considers to be a substantial, egregious error in screenwriting. Cinema Sins ripped into Marvel's The Avengers and even though I love that film, the video never made me angry. It did what it was meant to do, make me laugh. *shrug*

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Teague wrote:

Fun fact, because of you sorry goddamned assholes, we're doing an intermission this weekend called PLOT HOLE FILM CRITICISM.

So, good job Doc and Pav and Herc and BDA. You MESSED UP OUR WEEKEND.

*cries, runs away foppishly*


MUAHAHA. And just to add insult to injury, I'm not even going to BE THERE cause I'm making movies ALL WEEKEND!!! MUAHAHAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


But no actually I'm really curious to hear what you guys think.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2014-06-27 19:51:35)

ZangrethorDigital.ca

42

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

If people watch CS videos and conclude that the presence of small imperfections = a movie being shit, then yeah, that's unfortunate. I don't know that it's destabilizing to the enterprise of film criticism at large, but it is unfortunate.

A lot of what I see getting called out in CS are just weird little inconsistencies of the kind one is likely to find in both great films and shit films. (The cigarette was in Nicholson's mouth in one shot, then it disappeared--that means Thelma Schoonmaker's a hack! Or, The bullet holes were already behind Jules and Vince before the guy shot! Please.)

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

I think it's worth pointing out that Cinema Sins and Honest Trailers are very different animals. The first of these, Cinema Sins doesn't really claim to state anything about the overall quality of a film, it's merely listing its 'sins' (and continuity errors definitely fall within that). Honest Trailers, on the other hand, seeks to mock a film's absurdity by using the most absurd representation of it - the action-packed, spoiler-filled trailer.

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

redxavier wrote:

I think it's worth pointing out that Cinema Sins and Honest Trailers are very different animals. The first of these, Cinema Sins doesn't really claim to state anything about the overall quality of a film, it's merely listing its 'sins' (and continuity errors definitely fall within that). Honest Trailers, on the other hand, seeks to mock a film's absurdity by using the most absurd representation of it - the action-packed, spoiler-filled trailer.

I was going to say, it is more nitpicking "assholery" (yes that is a word...why do you ask?) as they call it. As has been said, Avengers was torn apart of minor nitpicks that I have seen reviewers analyze in more detail.

*shrugs*

I'm trying really hard to understand how this is detrimental to the film criticism world, other than people on YouTube being snobbish, sarcastic and grumpy towards movies. I think it is more in the public awareness, so maybe that is more of a problem, where there is a larger audience gravitating towards this style of comedy rather than serious analysis. But, like I said before, the majority of people going to see films are not going to give it serious analysis. Heck, I remember walking out of Constantine and wanting to analyze it and my two friends going "Seriously? Can't you just enjoy the movie?"

Edit here: Ok, yes, nitpicking is not a form of criticism that contributes anything more that seeming "looking for problems." I'm trying to figure out how that negates criticism, seeing as how there are still actual critics, who don't nitpick, who present their ideas on different films. I recently discovered another podcast that is an interesting take on film criticism and analysis. I think that CS provides a bit of comedy in what can sometimes can be inaccessible world of film analysis. As much as I enjoy FIYH and other podcasts, there is a level of intimidation to giving a film such criticism. So, you can use CS as a means of thinking about a film in a different way, rather than just a poor form of film analysis.

But, yeah, I'm with John here in that I don't see this type of comedy or nitpicking that bad (or even sinful wink). Considering that IMDB has a whole section for goofs on films, and Movie Mistakes has been around to highlight where movies mess up technically, this is not new.

So, when is this depressing episode being recored? If it is Sunday, I will try and be there to make sarcastic comments.

Last edited by fireproof78 (2014-06-28 03:20:59)

God loves you!

Thumbs up Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

I think the thing we're all cueing off of — the thing we object to — is that PHFC is not a "style" of criticism that actually requires engaging with a movie. You don't have anything to lose as someone coming at it that way, you venture nothing. You're not at risk of totally misinterpreting a thing in front of everyone. You're just "critiquing," doing it on a surface level, and this way you know that your contention can't be argued on its merits. "I'm sorry, are you saying that her hair WASN'T in a ponytail a second ago? Clearly you're not watching the film!"

Which, yeah, sure buddy. You're right.

Also, just as an aside, what do you learn about people or art by pullin' that shit.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

I know this is probably going to anger the panelists (and many of the forum members for even suggesting it) but I think you guys should seriously consider watching a handful of these videos beforehand, to refresh your memories on the actual content, instead of what you think or remember of them, (which can be a bit removed) and to give you specific talking points and examples to delve into.

Yes, all of those words were one sentence. I did it just to see if I could. smile

Thumbs up +3 Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

And here is a plot hole picture to remind us all who the real villain is:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g223/mudshark58/trekXI/Plot_Hole_City-1.jpg

God loves you!

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

I have lost the will to hate at the moment.  I can't do it.

I dunno, I kinda like Nostalgia critic. Don't really know the others. I watch NC to make me laugh, and that it does. I'm not there for something super critical, just something silly about movies/tv that entertains me for awhile.

Protection and power are overrated. I think you are very wise to choose happiness and love. -Uncle Iroh

Thumbs up +2 Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

johnpavlich wrote:

I know this is probably going to anger the panelists (and many of the forum members for even suggesting it) but I think you guys should seriously consider watching a handful of these videos beforehand, to refresh your memories on the actual content, instead of what you think or remember of them, (which can be a bit removed) and to give you specific talking points and examples to delve into.

I very strongly second this.

Thumbs up +1 Thumbs down

Re: Transformers 2 nostalgia

Teague wrote:

I think the thing we're all cueing off of — the thing we object to — is that PHFC is not a "style" of criticism that actually requires engaging with a movie. You don't have anything to lose as someone coming at it that way, you venture nothing. You're not at risk of totally misinterpreting a thing in front of everyone. You're just "critiquing," doing it on a surface level, and this way you know that your contention can't be argued on its merits. "I'm sorry, are you saying that her hair WASN'T in a ponytail a second ago? Clearly you're not watching the film!"

Which, yeah, sure buddy. You're right.

Also, just as an aside, what do you learn about people or art by pullin' that shit.

Exactly. It adds nothing to the critical landscape and the abundance of it distracts and detracts from it.

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

Thumbs up Thumbs down