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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

avatar wrote:

Loved the crashed destroyer shots.

Hell yes. Just a gorgeous way of evoking the old imagery while emphasizing the time that's elapsed. The Empire is a literal corpse being picked apart for scrap.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

avatar wrote:

Yes, and all the call backs. Must have been dozens of them. I had a bad feeling about fan-service. We panned lazy nostalgia with Terminator Genisys (no new ideas!), don't know why it gets a free pass here.

YMMV of couse, but it felt so much more earned here by and large. Apart from the big ones that are in every film anyway (Wilhelm, bad feeling), they're by and large casual and/or appropriate (two examples from the Falcon: the gas masks/smuggling compartments make perfect sense in context, while Finn throwing away the remote for a split second doesn't detract anything or become overly wink wink). Whereas in Genysis they're shoving it in your face so obnoxiously, being as dramatic as possible about stuff like rehashing COME WITH ME IF YOU WANNA LIVE to make sure the audience got it. It's lazy and exploitative, where TFA is far more playful and tries to throw in callbacks that make sense in the context of the scene.

Were there still too many? Yeah, probably. But no one bellowed an iconic line from the previous films at the camera apropos of nothing, they didn't shove them in your face, and on the whole it felt like something being done out of love rather than checking the boxes for the applause opening night.

Also, Genysis' script was a piece of shit otherwise whereas TFA has plenty of great original dialogue to balance out the throwbacks (Poe's "Who talks first? You talk first, I talk first?" is one of my new favorite SW funny moments.)

Last edited by Abbie (2015-12-18 22:34:43)

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

nahom1319 wrote:

Maybe I need to watch the movie again, or maybe I'm just an ashole, I honestly don't know. The movie just didn't hit for me as well as it did for other people. I loved about 75% of it but there were things that bugged me and didn't allow me to fully enjoy the movie.

One of the lesser talked about things (as far as I can tell) was Finn's motivation for leaving the First Order. Visually it looks like its the loss of life, which we see when the fallen storm stroopers blood is splattered on his armor. He seems remorseful at any loss of life. When he escapes with Poe he has no issue killing countless storm troopers though. Later he mentions he was a sanitation worker, so what was he even doing on Jakku as a front line soldier anyway?

Then we have the final battle with Kylo Ren... sure he's shot in the side by Chewie, but he held a blaster bolt in the air with the force. That was teh first time we've seen anyone hold a blaster bolt, surely that elevates him to bad ass of the month no? Yet he gets cut by Finn with a lightsaber. If Finn has the force he's still untrained hell, he picked up that light saber yesterday.

Besides those two things and the rehash of the old plot and the glut of characters I did like movie. There was a lot of stuff to like as well but everyone everywhere has talked about the pluses. The fight for one felt real, not overly choreographed. Daisy Ridley was a gem. BB-8 was hilarious and fit in well as a trio with Boyega and Ridley. The Luke reveal worked for me. The movie was again about an actual War among the stars and not just about the Jedi.

In any case I'm going to try to rewatch again this coming tuesday to see if I'm simply being harsh.

I think Finn's motivation is more just him realising that he's on the wrong side. Once he realises this, he wants out and doesn't care how. I don't think sanitation was his primary job as a Stormtrooper though, he probably just had a brief stint cleaning toilets at Starkiller Base for a little while.

Regarding the battle with Kylo, not only was he hurt - the guy had just killed his dad. We see early on that he's struggling with 'being seduced by the light side' and multiple times we're shown how emotionally unstable he is, so it wouldn't surprise me if throughout the fight all this was still playing on his mind and thus, not completely focused. Also, about Finn's skill with the saber - I think I recall seeing somewhere that he was very well trained at using one of those stun batons that we see that other Stormtrooper use. So there is probably some overlap there.

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29

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I think the idea might be that there's something inside Finn that makes him recoil from slaughtering villagers (as opposed to harming someone who's trying to do you harm in a battle), something that the "programming" storm troopers get couldn't stamp out. We may well learn about his past and learn where that thing in him comes from, who put it there. It's when the order to kill the non-resisting villagers gets handed down--that moment--that you see him realize not that he doesn't want to do it, but that he can't do it. There's a difference between being a soldier and being a murderer.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Rob wrote:

I think the idea might be that there's something inside Finn that makes him recoil from slaughtering villagers (as opposed to harming someone who's trying to do you harm in a battle), something that the "programming" storm troopers get couldn't stamp out. We may well learn about his past and learn where that thing in him comes from, who put it there. It's when the order to kill the non-resisting villagers gets handed down--that moment--that you see him realize not that he doesn't want to do it, but that he can't do it. There's a difference between being a soldier and being a murderer.

Fair enough. My inital reaction was he was opposed to extreme violence in general. As his first negative reaction was the storm trooper wiping his blood on Finn's armor. I will re-watch on tuesday with all of the responses in mind.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Rob wrote:

Also I thought we'd get a scene in which Leia and Chewie console each other about Han (did we?). Was disappointed when I didn't see it.

Leia consoles Rey who...she's never met before? But we'd all console Rey, right?

How did Poe get off Jakku? Why not just take the droid off the girl instead of offer her 60 portions?

The council scene where they're planning the attack on the star-killer base was like a piss-take self-parody. Like in Spectre, Bond shoots at a pipe with a pistol and the entire base blows up.

The tentacled creatures on the loose in that ship reminded me of the Cabin in the Woods scene.

Yeah, Star Wars IV amazing at the time (I was 7, the perfect demographic) as we'd never seen that level of spectacle before, but today we've seen greater spectacle e.g. Return of the King, so VII was underwhelming from that point of new. We've even seen collapsing planets before in JJ's Star Trek.

Is it hype or just the fact it's not Ep1-bad? That's a low benchmark. We'll see how this stands the test of time. It's good enough to whet the appetite for VIII. Overall, it's a nice setup for a new trilogy, but it's not ground-breaking on any level.

not long to go now...

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

avatar wrote:

How did Poe get off Jakku?

This one bothers me too. If it's something they deliberately brushed over because it's a setup for some twist as regards his character in VIII I'll be fine with it, oherwise it's rather deus ex machina-y. Wouldn't have required more than a couple lines of dialogue about the Resistance being alerted to the Falcon chase on Jakku and heading to pick up Poe, which is why I think it *could* be something they avoided explaining for a reason.

Last edited by Abbie (2015-12-18 23:16:40)

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I don't think it's much of a stretch to just assume he headed in a different direction than Finn did and found transport offworld at another village.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

So The Force is strong in Rey because... her parents? Random genetic mutation? It is her Destiny?

Her torture-chair escape scene was kinda funny. Drop your weapon, bitch.

not long to go now...

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35

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts there's a deleted scene showing Poe's escape from the wreckage and getting off of the planet.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I followed the spoilers for this and a scene by scene breakdown leaked from the shooting schedule or wherever. Poe's disappearance and reappearance is listed down as how it was in the final film.

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37

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

There you go. I stand corrected. Thank you.

I forgot the biggest WTF moment for me: it was Chewie not getting the captain's chair of the Falcon after Han is gone. I get it -- people still want to get some mileage out of their Chewie is My Co-pilot t-shirts and bumper stickers. But that just seemed wrong. He should have inherited that captain's seat. It could have been a moment.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Rob wrote:

The Empire is a literal corpse being picked apart for scrap.

That's why they were able to build a weapon bigger and more powerful than the Death Star, right?

Last edited by Ewing (2015-12-19 01:47:56)

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Rob wrote:
avatar wrote:

Loved the crashed destroyer shots.

Hell yes. Just a gorgeous way of evoking the old imagery while emphasizing the time that's elapsed. The Empire is a literal corpse being picked apart for scrap.

And it did a great job of showing the scale of the things. The Empire built them BIG and you could see that here. Though the shots of the First Order destroyer were impressive too, with how close the Falcon flew to it, and of course that opening shot. Took me a while to figure out exactly what was happening there.

But they got the formula. Crawl, tilt down, enter a Star Destroyer.

avatar wrote:

Why not just take the droid off the girl instead of offer her 60 portions?

I imagine the boss had been told the First Order wanted it, preferably without a ruckus; either that or "no ruckus" was just his preference. After he couldn't get it through that, and knowing Rey is damn good with her staff, he just called in the First Order to take care of the job instead of getting his own head busted in. Smart move.

As far as Poe getting off Jakku, I imagine it'll be the subject of a short, mayyybe a spinoff, or almost certainly a book. But it was one of the loose ends that wanted you to just go with it.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Ewing wrote:
Rob wrote:

The Empire is a literal corpse being picked apart for scrap.

That's why they were able to build a weapon bigger and more powerful than the Death Star, right?

He said the Empire, you're talking about the First Order. Though I will admit it's easy to confuse the two.

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Anyone got any ideas about this enigmatic map? Who drew the map? Why? Why was it in two pieces? How did Max have it? It's like JJ had a script meeting: let's make the map the MacGuffin...great idea!
But then then they forgot to fill in the details/context.

not long to go now...

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

One future plot reveal I would really like to see is Rey NOT being a descendent of Anakin. Not all the major characters have to be related in some way. It's a big galaxy – there are plenty of midichlorians to go around. Expand the universe.

Here's a backstory I think would be cool:

Rey was admitted to the "Luke Skywalker Center for Kids Who Can Feel Stuff, but Wanna Learn How to Feel Stuff Better" when she was very young. When Kylo Ben sabotaged the operation, killing most of the people there, a close friend managed to get Rey out on an escape pod to Dakku. She was left to fend for herself without a family, whom she didn't know were also killed by Ren. She was so young that she forgot most of what happened over time. Maybe she never even really understood what was going on, but she had managed to learn a bit about how to channel her feelings. Those instincts stuck with her, and were reactivated during Ren's attempt to penetrate here mind in TFA.

Or some better-written variation of that. It would explain how she was able to do what she did in TFA with seemingly no training or knowledge.

I'm not counting on it though. She's probably Anakin's granddaughter.

Last edited by Sam F (2015-12-19 06:05:06)

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I'm going back and forth on whether to rate this movie higher than RotJ. That one had an incredible climax mixed with a wildly uneven everything else, while TFA, for me, is a mostly awesome everything else mixed in with a half-lackluster climax. I think TFA has the edge in that, in RotJ, all the interesting character action happens in the throne room, whereas TFA is filled with nothing *but* interesting/endearing characters. We forgive RotJ largely because of one sequence (well, two, the space battle and the throne room are distinct), while imo TFA only has one sequence that needs forgiveness (the almost-afterthought of the fighter attack on Starkiller Base). And even though it's a major flaw, I can already tell on the rewatch that'll matter less because I'm so eager to experience Rey and Finn and Poe and Kylo again.

Last edited by Abbie (2015-12-19 08:12:51)

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

It wasn't bad, I'll give them that.

I'll have to watch it again to make sure whether or not I loved it, but it was definitely my kind of Star Wars; A great homage to the OT, whilst making it fresh.

There have been great debates whether or not it's too like ANH, to which I point people towards ROTJ and TPM, which are that too. Also, my friend caleld it way too cliché, to which I pointed him towards all the other 6 episodes, who basically made clichés what they are.

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there's one aspect where the Prequels were better than Ep7, and that's the score. The prequel scores had some great new themes e.g Duel of the Fates. I couldn't detect any iconic new themes. It was more a copy-and-paste rehash. I'll have to hear it some more.

Even the Hobbit scores, also paling in comparison to LOTR, had a few good new cues (Misty Mountains, Starlight), but so far the Ep7 score leaves me cold. Williams is old though.

not long to go now...

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Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

avatar wrote:

Anyone got any ideas about this enigmatic map? Who drew the map? Why? Why was it in two pieces? How did Max have it?

avatar wrote:

So The Force is strong in Rey because... her parents? Random genetic mutation? It is her Destiny?

Sam F wrote:

One future plot reveal I would really like to see is Rey NOT being a descendent of Anaki.

Alright, here's my understanding/theory on things. And obviously this depends on how much JJ and Disney is pulling from the old EU, but it's all pretty simple concepts of how the force works.

First of all, the movie makes it pretty clear that Luke is playing a larger game here. Leaving his Saber with Maz (In a very popular and active spaceport/space bar, tucked a bit but not entirely out of sight.), planting the first half of the map in R2 until X date. I think in at least part he is waiting for the Force to send him someone, or for another force user to re-appear in the galaxy. And like Maz says "The Saber, it calls to you."

There are always children in the universe being born force sensitive, that's just a fact, in the heyday of the jedi they would have scouting parties sent out to look for new potential Jedi. based on my little knowledge of the EU, in the a lot of cases they were kinda dicks to the parents and baaaasically kidnapped them to train them up a lot of times. But that's not the point. The point is that the Force is a strong independent binding force that don't need no Anakin.  As Kylo says, "There has been an awakening in the force." (Force holds up a giant arrow pointing to Rey).

The force is eternal, it will always exist and there will always be those sensitive to it. However the Jedi are really terrifying to the Dark Side and it's allies, because they "get it" they understand how to wield it and use it for good. Untrained force users can do a bit at best. But a motherfukin Jedi can ruin the whole thing. Cause...Jedi.

So theory time:

Luke has been out scouting the Galaxy. Mourning, yes, but also trying to understand how to move forward from here. What he HASN'T been is stuck on a rock for the past 15 years (or however long they said it was since he left). You know he's got an X-Wing parked on that thing somewhere.

At some point the force informs him, or he discovers Rey is force sensitive and hits the start sequence button on his master plan. Hell maybe it's just when someone force sensitive activates the flashback bomb on his Saber that he's like "Oh hello there.". And then once Rey taps into the light side of the force and uses it's power to nearly wipe the damn floor with the bratty asshole kid, R2 activates as "Okay guys, no it's cool. She's cool, she's probably not gonna dark side on us. Here's where you go now.". Also probably simultaneously sending a signal to Luke of, "Get yo ass back to that little shithole island with all the stairs, she's coming. Also...remember to bring the big cloak, you know, the big one that makes you look all mysterious. Yeah that one."

Obviously toooonnes of missing pieces but that's my general feeling from what the movie was giving us. Luke is being a tricksy bastard.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2015-12-19 15:10:32)

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

I'm hoping Rey isn't an Anakin descendant too. An issue I had with the prequels was too much small world syndrome. Give us some truly fresh blood here.

avatar wrote:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there's one aspect where the Prequels were better than Ep7, and that's the score.

I need to watch it again. In general I'm not great at picking out new themes - I didn't "recognize" Battle of the Heroes as a new great theme until repeat viewings of the movie after having listened to the soundtrack, and for the longest time I associated Duel of the Fates with pod racing because it was the menu music for Star Wars Racer.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

avatar wrote:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there's one aspect where the Prequels were better than Ep7, and that's the score. The prequel scores had some great new themes e.g Duel of the Fates. I couldn't detect any iconic new themes.

I think it's better score because there isn't a big bombastic theme that hits you over the head. It's just a score that does what it needs to do...

"Life is about movies; anything else is a bonus!"- Me   cool

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Boter wrote:

I'm hoping Rey isn't an Anakin descendant too. An issue I had with the prequels was too much small world syndrome. Give us some truly fresh blood here.


I don't know, until later in the film, I wanted to believe Ren was Jacen, and Rey was Jaina, or, at least, inspired by them, inheriting the names and all. Of course, when Han shouts BEN, that theory went out the window, but at least they kept one of the EU names, as Ben Skywalker was Luke's sun in the "Legends".
After that theory bombed, I still have some idea that Rey might be Luke's daughter, and nobody told her. If she's younger than Ben, it has the potential to make some sort of sense that she was hidden from him, and shielded from the Skywalker Curse, or something.

But then again, she isn't, judging by appearances, younger than him, and it doesn't work.

Eh, we'll see.

One theory I've had for a decade or so, seemed to be confirmed by VII, though. Lightsabers. New ones have stable cores and don't flicker, whereas older ones seem to become more unstable, and flicker a bit. Look at the OT; all sabers in there are old, and flickering. In the PT, where they're mostly new sabers, they're all stable as hell. Even Anakin's saber was steady until it had been locked away and not used for 20 years.

Well, it's something.

I do agree that the dogfights seemed a tad last minute. There's not a lot of info on Starkiller Base, apart from how it got its literal name, and it's wasted in that sense. "Oh, look, we one upped the Death Star with a fucking PLANET. Guess you're pretty fucked now- oh, wait, damn, you broke that too. Next time we're just using fighters, that seems like a better tactic."

Re: The Star Wars 7 Thread (SPOILERS. SERIOUSLY. ALL THE SPOILERS.)

Tomahawk wrote:

"Oh, look, we one upped the Death Star with a fucking PLANET. Guess you're pretty fucked now- oh, wait, damn, you broke that too. Next time we're just using fighters, that seems like a better tactic."

Maybe VIII will up the ante and actually have a literal Death Star instead of 'Death Moon' and 'Death Planet'. Then IX will have to have a Death Nebula or Death Globular Cluster or some shit, although that doesn't roll off the tongue.

not long to go now...

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