#31 - Chat: The Avengers (Page 4 of 8)

It's important not to lose sight of the fact that, generally, all of us like feeling a bit sexy.

What's relevant is what we in an affluent Western society believe is sexy in men and women. Historically these have been very different standards, because the genders have played very different roles. We're beginning to see the start of the break down of those archetypes, and Jim Cameron / Ridley Scott with their strong female leads are partially to thank.

As Dorkman pointed out, ideal and sexual are different things. Ideals are never going to be something which doesn't exist, but a healthy, competent one is better than passive and weak. Sadly, donuts aren't your friend in any scenario.

The discussion is about the poster, and gender roles in general, not the character. She's presenting.

Kittens. Hulk pet.

But as soon as he was actually on board he was free range. So that can't be right.

And now I can't stop thinking about freerange hulks.

Last edited by BigDamnArtist (2012-05-13 23:54:11)

You know what else I would have liked to have seen in The Avengers (this movie I saw this weekend)? Nick Fury getting his legs and arm cut off. In the comics, in some versions anyway, he had these sweet robot bionic limbs.

Then, in another movie (maybe a Hawkeye/Black Widow movie), he gets knocked unconscious by an explosion, and his robotic limbs drag him to safety by themselves. How awesome would that be?

And that is sexism and some people -- like the people who made that image -- find sexism objectionable. The target demographic would still see the movie if Black Widow weren't reduced to an object in the poster. It's sexist against men to think they need that and it's sexist toward women to put them in that position, literally and figuratively. Why not give girls someone THEY'D want to be?

Not even close to the point. The poster is a drop in a much larger bucket that some people would like to stop seeing drops continue to fill. It's a useful example that illuminates an issue in our culture and gets the conversation going.

I don't accept "that's just how it's always been" as the rationale behind any form of discrimination.

Yes, women have always been portrayed as sex objects in comic books to pander to young men. The entire culture treats women as sex objects to pander primarily to young men. That is precisely the problem at issue here.

Sure. And I don't think anyone involved with the Avengers posing image or arguing from my side of the fence is advocating the idea that if only Black Widow weren't posing like that, sexism would be over. It's just if something is happening all the time everywhere you look, it's possible to become so inured to it you don't even notice. It's at the point where this kind of thing needs to be pointed out every time -- the poster in question being but one of many -- to actually shake things up and help people notice there's an issue. And there comes a point also where you have to say "Okay, from now on, no more passes on this." The poster just happens to have come out shortly after that line got drawn.

Black Widow in the poster isn't the most egregious example I've seen; to my eyes it seems the mock poster is making a mountain out of a molehill in this case. The feminine anterior pelvic tilt angle she displays is a lot more natural that in poses you find in women's magazines and real comic covers. The fashion industry thrives on poses that accentuate the female form - that's where the common comic book pose you see comes from.

But the problem I find here is that the mock poster then comically overexaggerates the tilt on the male characters - in poses that you'd never, ever find female characters being drawn in. Shame really, because instead of drawing attention to an issue seriously the artist chose instead to clown around.

I think they briefly address that, when Thor lands on the plane and comes in, Loki has quick line about how "Odin must have had to summon up a lot of ju-ju juice to get you here."

It's something like that, basically it's assumed that Odin had to manually send Thor across the barrier, and it nearly put him a coma, or something like that.

Joss is wunderkind.

A bajillion dollars!

Isn't that what romantic comedies are for?