Topic: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Spoilers follow, it's a very spoilery film.

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A new film by Pixar! Pixar, the champion of all that is good in craft! A Pixar film means we can bank on a couple of things that make it stand out: a great story with layers for adults, rewatchability, characters you care about, a driving theme of hope!

Sadly, this is no longer true. In Brave's case, the blame has to be laid at the feet of the writers. A multitude of them.

Like Promethius, Brave suffers from a nasty case of the "could have been's", and the dreaded "we're trying to tell too many stories in the same film" syndrome. What we're presented with starts out well, and the first act sets up this strong independent character you could picture leading armies, or conquering great opposition. The second act decides that's a little too adult, and so devolves into a completely different film where the lead becomes a one dimensional character in a fairy tale. The jammy paws of Disney are all over it; from anthropomorphised animals to talking ones, no real stakes or risk, and safe, obvious characters. The weak third act culminates in a mighty ... whimper. You're left wondering if that's really all there was to the film.

Pixar films used to be driven by a clear message, and each film had a theme which the characters explored. Brave doesn't do this; instead we're left with a bleary, unfocused mess, and although it's pretty, it's not compelling. The lead isn't brave, she's just young. Calling the film "teenagers are dicks!" or "bearmum!" would have been more appropriate.

The single worst aspect of the experience was the dedication at the end to Steve Jobs, a man who's laser focus and drive for perfection built one of the most well loved brands in history. Brave is an ill fitting tribute.

Last edited by Dave (2012-06-24 11:28:32)

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

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aw man, I had hopes

Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Dave wrote:

Pixar films used to be driven by a clear message, and each film had a theme which the characters explored. Brave doesn't do this; instead we're left with a bleary, unfocused mess, and although it's pretty, it's not compelling.

The movie yammers on about fate/destiny in the first act, and then the final line of narration returns to it, as though hoping we'll forget the movie didn't say anything about fate at all.

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

SPOILER Show
Call me old fashioned, but the theme of fate needs a little more gravitas than cuddly wubbly bears and a bar room brawl. Her mum and brothers become bears if she doesn't learn needlework. DUN DUN DUUUUN!

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Man this summer is turning out to be a tidal wave of dissapointment. I think I've finally reached the point where I look forward much more to movies coming out in Fall and Winter, than in Summer.

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Crossing my fingers for Dark Knight Rises.

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

I liked it fine. I think it felt like two different movies, but that's more because of the switch between directors halfway through production, not the writers. It was heartfelt and earnest. However, I have a thing for redheads, so take all this with a grain of salt. Especially if they happen to be Scottish...

Last edited by Doctor Submarine (2012-06-25 01:10:58)

"The Doctor is Submarining through our brains." --Teague

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

I see all the problems we're talking about here, but they didn't bug me too much. I thought it was lovely, but lightweight. Wouldn't turn it off if I found it flipping channels.

Although I'm hoping to christ that Pixar is in all-out panic mode over there, making the best movie ever out of Monsters University, because... a twisted ankle in Cars 2 and a mis-step in Brave is really worrisome. They're at risk of losing a brand here, and it's a great brand. I don't want to live in a world without Pixar-quality Pixar films coming out, and a pair of unnecessary sequels after a pair of foibles is not reassuring.

Like I said, I just hope they're in panic, hail-mary mode. "Guys, we need to fucking kill it with this movie, we're starting over" mode.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Teague wrote:

a twisted ankle in Cars 2 and a mis-step in Brave is really worrisome

Don't forget John Carter.   

I actually gave JC another chance on video this week, and, nope, didn't get any better.   And listening to the commentary track with Stanton and two of the producers (ALL of whom came from Pixar), I learned two things:

1.  They had a lot of fun making the movie.   Which is nice for them.
2.  They really didn't know it was awful.   More than once they alluded to things they were gonna do in the sequels.  (The commentary was clearly recorded before the movie hit theaters).   

It was also informative to hear Stanton talk about how interesting it was to see what an "AD" did... since of course he'd never worked with one before.     No wonder the thing cost 250 million.

So, Lassetter, Stanton - forget the live action stuff, you're needed back home.    (Bird: you're good for now, you can keep going.  But try to keep an eye on things at the ranch, too, if you can.)

Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Even with Brave being a dissapointment, I give them credit for trying an original idea again.
That being said, I have to concur I really worry about their future at this point. They've never had 3 misses in a row to date, but with Cars 2, this, and Monster's University next year, you really have to wonder if the brand even means anything anymore, especially given the increase in quality on Dreamwork's side (How to Train Your Dragon is very close to Top-Tier Pixar quality in my opinion).

I can't imagine Monster's University is going to be a good upper tier Pixar film. Going the prequel route just seems like such a cash grab and so un-necessary. And the concept itself sounds so much like some lesser Dreamworks movie, or even one of those Direct-To-Video sequels like "Planes". It could easily just be a whole series of Monster versions of College movie tropes, and I just have no interest in that.

Quite Frankly, I don't understand the mentality at all. It's not like Pixar non-sequels have ever done poorly, they've all been hugely profitable. Why not stick to original ideas going forward for awhile, especially given all the shit they got over Cars 2.

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Monster's University would have been in production long before Cars 2 came out. According to wiki they were thinking about a sequel since 2005.

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Teague wrote:

I see all the problems we're talking about here, but they didn't bug me too much. I thought it was lovely, but lightweight.

Brave is Pixar's FCPX?

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Wreck Em Ralph is my current last hope for Pixar's future.

Posted from my iPad
http://trek.fm

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Gregory Harbin wrote:

Wreck Em Ralph is my current last hope for Pixar's future.

I'm not sure how that works, seeing as Wreck em Ralph is made by Disney Animation Studio not Pixar.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

BigDamnArtist wrote:
Gregory Harbin wrote:

Wreck Em Ralph is my current last hope for Pixar's future.

I'm not sure how that works, seeing as Wreck em Ralph is made by Disney Animation Studio not Pixar.

Then I've lost all hope for Pixar then.

Posted from my iPad
http://trek.fm

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Theeeeere you go.

ZangrethorDigital.ca

Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

I think this is one of those rare cases where I saw a different film than everyone else did. I actually enjoyed that it wasn't the film the trailers said it was: it wasn't a wacky comedy (for most of it), and it wasn't yet another "strong teen girl kicks butt" tale. I saw it coming, but also liked how the torn tapestry actually had nothing to do with saving Mom.

I would be interested to know which half of the film belonged to the female director and which to the male one (the meeting Mom half way seems the most feminine, while kick butt rebel Princess is how guys like their women)

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Huh.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

I find Wallstreet's concern for good storytelling touching smile Maybe others can report on how things are near them, but the Regal theater I saw Brave in today had it on 4 2D screens... and only 1 3D screen. I found that interesting.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Apparently it had the lowest 3D share for an animated film thus far, with 34%

http://www.variety.com/article/VR111805 … LatestNews

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

Like I said, at least locally that would be expected when 3D only gets 1/5 of the screens.

I write stories! With words!
http://www.asstr.org/~Invid_Fan/

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

I'm with Invid.  I enjoyed the movie for being something different than the trailer purported.  Although being hearing impaired, I didn't hear that the theme was supposed to be about destiny and fate.  I thought the theme was about family.

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

I thought the theme was about being, you know, brave. Like, courage.

Posted from my iPad
http://trek.fm

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Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

I think we may have found the problem.

Re: [Spoiler Zone] Brave

The theme is about family—notice that Merida's wish to change her fate is not to change her own position in life (and thus her destiny), but to change her mother. In that way, the film proposes that birth is destiny. It's also reinforced by the story of Mordu, because he rejected his family. The concept of a woven destiny, as echoed in the tapestries, is more apt here; you can't remove the threads that support you, argues Brave.

I saw it with my mother, and we were both bawling at the end (my tiny French mother told me she would save me from bears, given that she is also a bear at the time), so the mother-daughter relationship definitely rings very true. (To be fair, I bawled at The Hobbit trailer because it was the highest resolution I'd ever seen anything at, so my bawl bar is set pretty low.) I could see Chapman's hands in any scene that gave Elinor more depth, and I really appreciated that it was about both mother and daughter understanding each other, rather than the mother understanding her.

I didn't think it was a misstep; however, I agree it is not at Pixar's usual standard and that Monsters University does not look promising.

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