Topic: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

Apologies if there is already a thread going, a quick search did not reveal one though.

Just saw Ender's Game last night and I don't want to write a full review, but I thought I'd give my quick impression and get a discussion going.

I should qualify myself by stating I really enjoy what I've read from the Ender series. I was introduced to Ender's Game back in high school and since then I've also read Speaker for the Dead (favorite), Xenocide and Ender's Shadow.


I left the theater feeling much like I did after leaving the Hunger Games.
I thought, "that was a fine, unoffensive, safe movie that I'm sure many young adults will enjoy".
I didn't have any huge complaints, but plenty of quibbles and nitpicks.

Spoilers Ahead

My major grievance was probably the pacing. Battle school felt completely rushed and clunky. The amount of time Ender spent there seemed to be pared down from several years to less than a couple months. I understand that time is never on your side when you adapt a beloved book full of great scenes and interesting characters, and that means leaving a lot on the cutting room floor. However, even something as simple as a montage or two showing Ender's training, studying and experimenting may have better conveyed the depth of his genius and empathy. The character moments they did include felt a bit forced. I feel they overplayed Petra and Ender's relationship, when really it was Bean that seemed more important to me in the novel (actually I'm amazed the studio didn't force Hood to include a zero-g kissing scene with those two children).

The fantasy game was fine, again seemed rushed, but I have no idea how else they could have handled it.
I thought the film really picked up in the third act, at command school. I thought the visuals of the 'simulations' looked great and I enjoyed watching Asa command as the great Ender Wiggin.

Kingsley had a good performance as Mazer Rackham (didn't seem to be phoning it in as much as Ford). The final twist felt a little predictable with how some of the simulations beforehand and conversations among the brass were portrayed. This may be because I already knew the reveal though.

I'm sure I have a lot more to say, but I'd like to hear what you all thought as well. Overall I think it was fine, I'd give it a 6/10.

Last edited by Rikkitikkitaavi (2013-11-07 16:16:17)

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

Mike, play nice ok?

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

Just saw it. It did feel... clipped, overall. Rushed. Cursory setups, cursory payoffs. If there won't be an extended cut - or at least not a meaningfully extended cut, like Lord of the Rings - that's a shame. The aesthetic of the translation and many of the performances were fine indeed, so with the exception of an anemic edit, this was damn close to being a great adaptation.

Alas, my assumption is there will be no extended edition - and if not, there was a bit of a failure in the adaptation process here.

Like we talked about most recently on Rosemary's Baby, simply translating all the things that happen in a book into movie scenes and stringing them out in the same order does not an adaptation make. (Though they did cut some memorable stuff with Ender's siblings.) This movie feels very much like one of those adaptations; as if when the first draft was turned in, the writer/director was left with a 220 page script, a note to tighten, and no idea how to streamline it... so he selects half of each scene, hits backspace, and prints.

Resulting in something with all the skeletal structure of the right story, but no space between bones for a bit of living tissue to take hold.

Anyway. I'm tired, so I'm not going to go too much into it right now. On the whole, I did enjoy it, and many of the visuals were really outstanding. (It's odd, but pleasant, to see Digital Domain get a company card at the beginning of the movie.) I agree with Rikki that there's a Hunger Games vibe going on here - and not just in the evident "Hunger Games was successful, bring me the next kid war movie" mentality behind the timing of it all, but in the "y'all need to pick a thing here and tell us a story about it" problem with the movie itself. As it stands, much like Hunger Games, Ender's Game plays like the Wiki summary of the protagonist.

Also, regarding the trailer:

Spoiler Show
"THIS IS NO GAME"? Are you kidding me, guys? The fact that it's not a game is the twist-fucking-ending.

Teague Chrystie

I have a tendency to fix your typos.

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

I also took note of the Digital Domain company card. Is that a first for an effects house, or have they branched out into the production business as well?

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

Hi there,
I can only speak about the movie as i have not read any of the books.
But I´m now interested in the books although I really did not like the movie.
Everything that seemed interesting only got a cursory mentioning-

  Show

I´m a third, i´m not even supposed to be here. I like when movies do not have to spell everything out (ok overpopulation lead to global 2 child policy) but the whole family dynamic seemed to have a lot more in store than just so state: yep all genius, but one a brute one too nice so have a third try, because they seem too much the same age to have the failure of the other lead to conception of the third)

The mind evalution game with the mouse. AND I THOUGHT yeah, finally some real virtual reality that has a meaningfull connection to the real world- and then---- there are images of his siblings in his game, delete it.
That´s for a rewarding pay-off.

Dream communication with the Queen- sorry, but is the queen only trying to communicate with him or others too? Is this some hidden chosen one theme apart from him being the required super genius?

And I really didn´t care for the war room, the whole quidditch game and all. Before going into the first fight i already knew- there is a goal that a single member of the team can accomplish to win even if the team is behind in points over 9000. So what is he going to do? In Potter i did not care for the game either, but at least there was always something going on behind the scenes at the same time.

And the final battle. Ah yeah, there you go, you just saved us. I cant really pinpoint why i was 100% sure the "simulation" would be the real battle even before it started without rewatching it (which i have no intention of doing). Could be I looked one too many times at my watch to realize they only have time for one elaborate battle sequence, but i think it was pretty bland in the movie beforehand. Ah now I remember, Ford even has a line that states something like "we can´t do anything know"- and i think this line even was in the trailer- jeeeeeees, what are you doing, movie.
The twist wouldnt have been good anyway, even if it worked. I dont think it was established very well, that Ender really had no intention to eradicate the enemy- being too compassionate. There are hints that he might not do what command wants him to do, but only because he is smarter than them. The whole "simulation is already the real thing" trick was not asked for by Ender himself questioning the morality of the enterprise enough.
And so the motivation for the ending gets across even more slapped together, because his regret pretty much comes out of nowhere for me.
Leaving aside the fact that there is a queen on the planet and he finds it in walking range of the command center. That is convenient. No, that´s sequel convenient.


btw i really like your name, the story is still one of my favourites by Kipling

Last edited by Syl (2013-11-08 13:53:00)

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

I know everyone loves saying it about nearly every adaptation, but if you have any interest in the ideas/plot of this story you really should read the books.

In response to some of the points you bring up:

  Show
I believe in the book Ender is supposed to be about half as old as his older siblings (I'm thinking Peter and Valentine are in their early teens and Ender is about six). So by the time Peter and Valentine were the ages Ender is at the beginning of our story, they could have been deemed unusable. They do have an interesting subplot in the novel dealing with politics and persuasion that really shows you brilliant all the Wiggin children really are.

Maybe the largest theme of Ender's Game is empathy. Over the course of the story it is revealed that the Formics have been trying to communicate with humans since first contact. Due to the differences in biology and culture, the two species were doomed to early misunderstandings, at least early on. Mazer Rackham was able to defeat the buggers because it was thought he was the only soldier who understood them. It's for this same reason that Ender is heralded as the greatest chance to defeat the buggers, because he is so empathetic.

"The moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him"

So what makes Ender the perfect soldier also makes him the most receptive to the buggers' communication. That being said, the buggers cannot directly communicate with Ender like they can with each other so they use the fantasy game as a medium. Ender is simply the only one who is able to latch onto it. Anderson and Graff are just as confused as to how the program is able to pull personal images from Ender's mind into the game.

As for the big reveal. One of the hardest part of adapting a book like this into a film is that so much of the story takes place in Ender's head. In the movie we never really get a clear understanding of how complex, sympathetic and exhausted the mind of this child is. The teachers at battle school grind him down and deprive him of sleep, comfort and friends and are constantly stacking the deck against him (like for years). This forces Ender to constantly rework his strategies, and stretch himself to his limits to the point of desperation. He hates himself every time he resorts to violence as it is a reminder of Peter and the thought of becoming like him is terrifying. Yet he can't completely divorce himself from the idea that violence is always avoidable.

I don't remember how early the movie reveals the fact that the IF has been dispatched to counter-attack the buggers. If I recall correctly, Ender believes he will be commanding a defensive army or one that is put into place to protect earth from future bugger invasions. Not an army that is launching its own invasion. So he believes he is playing what is basically a series of incredibly complex games of chess designed by Mazer Rackham to test his resolve and adaptability.

Anyway, I hope I didn't spoil too much and you'll still check out the series. My favorite is still Speaker for the Dead, which is the direct sequel and deals with the ramifications and aftermath of the events of Ender's Game.

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

Syl wrote:

Hi there,
I can only speak about the movie as i have not read any of the books.
But I´m now interested in the books although I really did not like the movie.
Everything that seemed interesting only got a cursory mentioning-

  Show

I´m a third, i´m not even supposed to be here. I like when movies do not have to spell everything out (ok overpopulation lead to global 2 child policy) but the whole family dynamic seemed to have a lot more in store than just so state: yep all genius, but one a brute one too nice so have a third try, because they seem too much the same age to have the failure of the other lead to conception of the third)

The mind evalution game with the mouse. AND I THOUGHT yeah, finally some real virtual reality that has a meaningfull connection to the real world- and then---- there are images of his siblings in his game, delete it.
That´s for a rewarding pay-off.

Dream communication with the Queen- sorry, but is the queen only trying to communicate with him or others too? Is this some hidden chosen one theme apart from him being the required super genius?

And I really didn´t care for the war room, the whole quidditch game and all. Before going into the first fight i already knew- there is a goal that a single member of the team can accomplish to win even if the team is behind in points over 9000. So what is he going to do? In Potter i did not care for the game either, but at least there was always something going on behind the scenes at the same time.

And the final battle. Ah yeah, there you go, you just saved us. I cant really pinpoint why i was 100% sure the "simulation" would be the real battle even before it started without rewatching it (which i have no intention of doing). Could be I looked one too many times at my watch to realize they only have time for one elaborate battle sequence, but i think it was pretty bland in the movie beforehand. Ah now I remember, Ford even has a line that states something like "we can´t do anything know"- and i think this line even was in the trailer- jeeeeeees, what are you doing, movie.
The twist wouldnt have been good anyway, even if it worked. I dont think it was established very well, that Ender really had no intention to eradicate the enemy- being too compassionate. There are hints that he might not do what command wants him to do, but only because he is smarter than them. The whole "simulation is already the real thing" trick was not asked for by Ender himself questioning the morality of the enterprise enough.
And so the motivation for the ending gets across even more slapped together, because his regret pretty much comes out of nowhere for me.
Leaving aside the fact that there is a queen on the planet and he finds it in walking range of the command center. That is convenient. No, that´s sequel convenient.


btw i really like your name, the story is still one of my favourites by Kipling

Yeah, the book did little to help them in many of the areas you listed, but it demonstrates laziness on the part of the adaptation process if it is so apparent.

Personally, I shouldn't have to read the book to get a movie, whether it is adapted or not. I have no problem doing homework before a film, but, and I think SF Debris mentioned this quite strongly in his Trek 09 review, among others. I know, I know, I am just as guilty of this in the fact that I wish for a proper Starship Troopers and Dune adaptations, but I can recognize the need for changes.

The parts of Ender's game involving his siblings might have needed to end up out of the movie for pacing issues and I can rightfully see that. But, shouldn't the movie be able to carry on on its own?

Seriously, I've read the Revenge of the Sith novelization and that movie still doesn't make sense wink

God loves you!

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

I just saw the movie, and enjoyed it. I hadn't read the book, though I knew the reveal at the end of the book. I sat the whole movie wondering if it'd do the same thing or if it'd do something completely different.

  Show
Being, you might say, unhindered by what happened in the book, I liked how the movie flowed. Yes, the training seemed very fast, but it reinforced the idea that, this is obviously a simulation, they wouldn't put him in command of the fleet after a couple of months. That, and he was commanding his usual team; they were brought forward instead of many others who were likely more qualified if this was to be an actual mission, right?

What disturbed me the most about the movie was at the very end. The kids won the simulation, and were confronted with the planet being wiped out. Even before the visuals started up again and they saw the destruction up close and personal, it was still heart-rending. For them to stare, slack-jawed in horror, then start celebrating, seemed forced. Even as a simulation, it'd seem to be an object lesson that hey, this is what winning might mean. There's no way that Ender would be legitimately celebrating, even after a victory, because he'd be thinking through the ramifications.

8/10 if I were to have to pick a number out of the air.

Boter, formerly of TF.N as Boter and DarthArjuna. I like making movies and playing games, in one order or another.

Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

  Show
I thought Ashton Kutcher popping up at the end was overkill.

--
One Time @ Bland Camp...

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

Teague hit the nail on the head for my experience.
It was a very loyal adaptation for just about every scene it did, most were very similar to how I'd pictured them for years, or did one better on what I'd thought up. However, for every moment I enjoyed, there was one I missed. Just when I thought they were finally on track with the book, they'd skip something and I'd be focused on that disappointment rather than paying attention.
This feeling is why I generally will read a popular book after I see the movie, but there was no getting around this here as this was one of the novels kids/geeks were passing around back in high school.
The inclusion of the Giant Game was surprising, I'd swear I'd read that was a subplot they'd dropped. I'm super happy they kept it in, but it's just too bad the parts where it becomes relevant to Ender's psyche were so underplayed.

It's also a shame they felt a need to keep it under two hours. This is a film that could've used the extra time.

BluRay's out today. I'll still pick it up, because it did do it mostly right. I think a second viewing with adjusted expectations will help. This does feel like the ENDER'S GAME film we've been waiting for, not just another kiddie film hot on the heels of the Hunger Games.

Now, if you want to talk about how "The Giver" is looking...

Last edited by Vapes (2014-02-11 17:08:56)

"Defending bad movies is VaporTrail's religion."
-DorkmanScott

Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

Some random thoughts. I have a problem with a story that announces a character to be a tactical genius but demonstrates that by showing only mass self-sacrifice. Also, the zero gravity game has practically no relevance to the actual battles that they're fighting. Finally, I love when movies show footage from earlier in the movie and pass it off as actual footage of the event.

And where are these magic cameras that are capturing all the real-time events of the end game?

Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere. - Carl Sagan

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Re: Ender's Game [Spoilers marked]

The book explains the relevance of the zero-G strategy a lot better than the movie does.

***SPOILERS***

   Show
There were tons of battles and training sessions the film leaves out. The bit with Ender moving his ships from under the ice is just skimming the surface of the stuff he came up with in the novel.
The movie never even explains why "the enemy gate is down". Dragon Army's trademark strategy would be to squat, then freeze their own legs and put their guns pointed down between their thighs and fire at the enemy as they "fall", so they have a clear shot, but the enemy is doing nothing but hitting the frozen legs. This is the complete opposite of the movie version, where Ender simply throws himself out in the middle being frozen in a spread eagle, firing as he spins. That didn't make any sense to me, as once he was hit, he was restricted to targets that would cross his X-axis only at the right moment (and once he's frozen, he shouldn't be able to fire anyway). Also, that line in the last fight about "Let's give them a formation", "but we've never done a formation" comes across as "We haven't done this cuz we're still new", whereas in the novel, the reason Ender doesn't do formations is because that's what all the other armies do. He sees it as predictable and flawed, so he breaks free of it. The armies notice this and begin doing more random attacks as well. Then, in the final battle when they are outnumbered 2 to 1, Ender throws them for a loop by using a formation more effectively than any of the other armies had, and wins by going for the enemy gate rather than picking off every soldier.

Same goes for Command School, Ender is an amazing strategist but in the end of the novel, they've been fighting for months and Ender and his crew are sleep-deprived, stressed and exhausted. A highlight was Petra making a deadly error and suffering a nervous breakdown, while Ender simply grunts in frustration and takes over her tasks in addition to his own.
Drilling toward the planet like in the film wasn't just a strategy to win, he was trying to get the game to end because he was tired of playing it. "Fuck it, blow up their planet." The movie glossed over the fact that the Dr. Device's resulting shockwave spread far enough to take out the surrounding fleet and IIRC, Ender's ships were caught in the blast as a result of this, not in a suicidal drill toward the surface.
The film's maneuver works the same no matter how you think about it in 3D space. Rotating the planet so it's 'beneath' the ships made no difference whatsoever.

This is where the film let me down, the final impact of the plot twist wasn't earned in the movie as it was in the book. They left out too much and didn't quite understand the tactics the book was trying to convey.

It's a good book.  smile
Sorry if I ruined a lot of it, but it's my favorite science fiction novel and I highly recommend it.


As for magic cameras, it's probably more like 3D scanning OR realtime simulation based on transponder signals and the like. I dunno, that's just a detail.

Last edited by Vapes (2014-02-14 07:41:37)

"Defending bad movies is VaporTrail's religion."
-DorkmanScott