I, too had an arc during this episode. It started with me curled in the fetal position, questioning my worth and ended with me giving DiF a virtual hug.
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Friends In Your Head | Forums → Posts by johnpavlich
I, too had an arc during this episode. It started with me curled in the fetal position, questioning my worth and ended with me giving DiF a virtual hug.
So, I've been making Down In Front Editions of some of my favorite movies, with custom-designed, sleek looking menus, trailers and DiF commentaries. I'll have to add this one to the list. This is THE perfect movie.
Near the end, DiF talks about how Biff is the only one doing an honest day's work. Actually, it gets pointed out that George caught Biff in a lie about putting on the second coat. Even after all these years, Biff is still a lying, no good scumbag. Also, I'm sure George paid him handsomely for the job, so it's not like he made Biff his bitch, exactly.
One can easily like a flawed or "bad" movie. I'm not talking about a "so bad, it's good" movie, but more of a "it's full of problems and isn't very good, but it's entertaining/charming/enjoyable" movie. Tron Legacy fits nicely in that category. Another example of this for me would be Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World. The script is a mess. The characters are all vapid, shallow, unlikable caricatures (except for Wallace. He rules all.). Much of the narrative is flippant, arbitrary and almost nothing gets paid off in an organic, fully satisfactory way. However, the movie is also energetic, inventive and damn funny, thanks largely to Edgar Wright. It's not a good movie, but it's fun, so I like it for that.
EDITED TO ADD: Oh! Something I forgot to mention: Tron Legacy suffers the same problem as Once Upon A Time In Mexico. In that film (the third and final installment in Robert Rodriguez's "Mariachi Trilogy"), the "main" character is hardly in the film, it's not even really about him at all and instead, we follow other people the storyteller is obviously way more interested in, namely, Johnny Depp and Reuben Blades. We even get flashbacks to what should have been the actual third film, but we're forced to meander through this one, even though it's not been properly established beforehand because we skipped all that. Tron Legacy does the exact same thing.
If by "stole" you mean "was practically force-fed", then yeah. And you're welcome.
Nice bit of reverse psychology there. Nobody leave me an iTunes review, either! Boy, how I hate those.
So, back when you recorded this (one of the few times I was unable to join the live chat), I decided to watch Tron Legacy for the first time. It was streaming on Netflix, through Starz, so I knew the opportunity to essentially watch it for free wouldn't last.
After watching it, I decided that was....fine. Alright. Nothing special. Had its moments. It was at least better than the first one, in that I didn't fall asleep or look at my watch or wish I was doing anything else. However, I've come to realize that both films share a lot of the same problems, in terms of structure, pacing, narrative through-lines and character motivations. What's more, is they share these issues almost verbatim. It's like building a fancy new modern home over the old one, using the same blueprints and doing it right over the original foundation, but being completely unaware that the whole reason you needed to try again in the first place was because the foundation and blueprints were problematic.
One example of this is the Solar Sailor. In both instances, it shows up at about the same time, moves like a snail precisely when time is critical and manages to bring the movie to almost a complete stop. It's weird. For years, I tried to figure out why in the first film, between the few exciting and memorable set pieces, the rest of it seemed so dull, uneventful and forgettable? A friend of mine cracked it for me about a year ago: Though the first film has a score, it's kind of stuffy, old-school and there are big stretches of the film where they just don't use it. It's too quiet and stale.
The sequel at least gets that right this time. Daft Punk's score, at least to me, is ultimately the best thing about this film. For being mostly electronic, it feels so alive, passionate and energetic. I for one will argue that yes, it deserved an Academy Award nomination. Maybe not a win, but at least a nomination.
My other favorite thing about the movie? Olivia Wilde. She played such an interesting character, and looked like she was having fun doing it, which was infectious, I felt.
Heyyyy, this isn't Tron Legacy! SHENANIGANS!!!!
I said it elsewhere, but Tropic Thunder plays like Judd Apatow films for me, even the ones he just produces: Funny once, especially in a crowded theater of people laughing hysterically. But then I watch it again at home by myself....and it's just, flat, awkward and kind of boring. Regardless, RDJ is consistently amazing in this film. He was so good, The Academy HAD TO nominate him for an Oscar, and it's a comedy! They almost never do that these days!
Silent Running is a beautiful and tragic classic, forgotten or dismissed by a generation that likes to watch big, pointy CGI robot aliens punch each other and call it science fiction.
LOL, I thought it was a comment on how seemingly half-assed and flippant Iron Man 2 was put together.
P.S. Glad to see Ryan's review represented here. I have a friend who is a graphic designer (he's done work on Spider-Man 2 promotional material with Dr. Pepper, and ad designs for Blockbuster, and the cover art for the Open Range DVD) and has recently started doing photos and life casts of nude models. Anyway, he loved Iron Man 2 (You think you know someone and then...) and I tried to show him Ryan's video. He had a cable hooked up to a big TV, connected to his iPhone so we could watch the YouTube vid. We got as far as the mention about the old footage of Howard Stark, before there was a connection/download problem and we couldn't watch the rest. He just responded with, "I disagree with pretty much everything that guy said." When the thing about Iron Man getting a new suit design for shallow and unknown reasons came up, he yelled, "IT'S IN THE COMIC!" as if that was the great, big justifier and winner of the argument.
I'm not sure if people are complaining that Nielsen is discriminating against "geek favorites", but I do often hear/read that they believe Networks are doing that. The biggest offender being Fox. What they fail to realize is that the only reason Fox seems like the bigger culprit in this, is because they actually buy/air more "geek favorites" (heretofor named "genre shows") than most. They tend to pick up some of the more high-concept (or riskier), more off-the-beaten-path programming such as The X-Files, Werewolf, VR 5, Strange Luck, Millennium, Brimstone, Freaky Links, Greg The Bunny, Harsh Realm, The Adventures Of Brisco County Jr., Night Visions, Firefly, The Tick, Wonderfalls, Drive, Dollhouse, Fringe, etc. If these shows get canceled, Fox didn't do it to piss you off. They did it to patch a big hole in their boat. To stay afloat and relevant, they have to give the general public what they want, which is "general" content, meaning safe, familiar, easy and disposable.
Sure, every once in a while a smarter, more unique production will capture people's imagination. The X-Files and The Simpsons, for example. These are exceptions that prove the rule. The X-Files was full of monsters, aliens, brainy scientists and Canadians. At its core, it was a cop show. A police procedural. The Simpsons was animated, but it had swearing and more adult subject material. Not to mention, the characters were all yellow-skinned weirdos. At its core, it was a comedy-drama about a dysfunctional, lower-middle to middle class family, with kids, pets and a mortgage payment.
The other important point is at the time, Fox was a new network, just starting out. They were able to take such risks and allow shows to find an audience way easier back then. The same goes for UPN and The WB. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Roswell and Supernatural are all genre shows that would've most likely died halfway through their first seasons on the bigger networks, provided they could even get picked up in the first place.
LOL! That's double-funny because it's raining HERE too!
I've been advised to stop intermediating, as it's only causing confusion and annoyance on both sides. I apologize and thus, I wash my hands of the mess I've made.
P.S. I'm told they will listen to the Intermission episode, so that's good, right? Maybe at least some new listeners might stem from this. If not for The Intermission, maybe for Down In Front proper.
I'm afraid so, yeah... Sorry about that. Not my intention. Should you wish to express your point to them directly, their email address is slashfilmcastATgmailDOTcom. Additionally, there's also Twitter:
David Chen: @davechensky
Devindra Hardawar: @devindra
Adam Quigley: @alwayswatching
Despite this particular disagreement, they're a really fun, approachable group. I don't know, maybe you could be a guest on their show. I'm sure they would enjoy talking to you. After all, if they can have Armond White on their podcast not once, but twice, I'm sure your appearance would be just fine.
EDITED TO ADD: Really? I've only read the first paragraph so far. Strange. Maybe they've not listened to the episode proper and just going off what I've quoted you from these forums. Either way, the title of the article at least seems to suggest that yes, this is a rebuttal, saying the system doesn't work.
EDITED TO FURTHER ADD: I guess I spoke too soon where I shouldn't have:
"Grossly misinterpreting one of our hosts' points-of-views = not likely to cause me to invite you onto the show :-/
-David"
Crap, in an attempt to clarify and educate, I seem to have only further fueled the proverbial fire. It was meant to be, "I used to say the same thing about Nielsen ratings, but I had little to no information to base my opinions on, then The Intermission explained it to me. I want to share this knowledge." I emailed the Slashfilmcast with all this stuff last night, providing links and pulling quotes from Trey here. I got a response from Adam an hour ago:
"I'd say it's more odd that my quote was interpreted that way. Nielsen ratings are represented by .02% of TV watchers. I repeat: .02%. And that .02% is comprised of Nielsen members who have agreed to have all their TV activity monitored, which requires active participation on their part. How many people from my generation care about or respect the Nielsen ratings, and would willingly give up their time to keep tabs on what they're watching and push a button every five minutes? Another question: How many people from my generation watch Community? I wonder if Trey has considered what the crossover is there, not just for Community, but for other canceled geek favorites like Firefly and Arrested Development.
The Nielsen ratings are bullshit. The system alone introduces an inherent, unavoidable bias in that it requires people's time, and as voting proves, the people far more likely to participate in something like this are those who have plenty of it (read: old people), and those who believe they're contributing something of value to the world (read: old people).
How I feel about Community is completely irrelevant in this debate. The depressing reality is that the numbers generated by Nielsen are being relied on to prop up a billion dollar industry, despite the objective impossibility that those numbers accurately reflect the TV viewing habits of all of America."
Then a response from David Chen about 30 minutes ago:
"While I think the details are a bit more nuanced than Adam lets on, I gotta side with him on this issue. Trey's misinterpretation is pretty significant.
More details here: http://splitsider.com/2011/01/why-niels … y-that-way "
I've only just started reading the article linked above. We'll see how this goes.
I prefer the word "Ninja" in place of "Stealth".
Dollhouse and Supernatural are two other examples of shows with preset, 5-year plans. Dollhouse was forced to skip ahead to the end, while Supernatural actually had its "last" episode at the end of season 5, but by then it had become pretty popular, at least in terms of The CW and Smallville was already set to end in a year.
Heh, thanks. You should see a doctor about that cough, by the way. I know a guy, goes by the name of Submarine. "He's a good man, and thorough."
So, I was just listening to the latest episode of the Slashfilmcast, wherein they review Tarsem Singh's, Immortals. At the start of the podcast, they mention the NBC show Community has been removed from the mid-season schedule, which is not a good sign. However, they also mention that the show may survive for at least another season, making it viable for syndication, which is good business sense.
I bring all this up because in that discussion, co-host Adam Quigley said almost verbatim the same sentiment I expressed just a few days ago. "It's so frustrating we live in an age where we're still using the Nielsen ratings. It's so horribly archaic! Just seeing how passionate the fan following is for Community, I know that the Nielsen families that they're using are not accurately reflective of the amount of people watching this show."
I immediately wanted to direct them to the episode of The Intermission that deals with this topic, so that Trey and company can educate them, just as I had been. Since it's not out yet, I hopped over to Down In Front's Justin.tv page, in the hopes of downloading it and ripping the audio (I've done this before for Scott Pilgrim, Iron Man 2 and Tron Legacy). Unfortunately, it was not there. In fact, none of that block of Intermission episodes were present. My question is, does The Intermission have it's own, separate page on Justin.tv, or do you guys record that show a different way?
That's okay, Jimmy. I think she's cute, but at least we both agree that yes, her boobs are nice.
....I can't believe I'm having this conversation, on a message board.
....So, hey Teague....Let's talk.
Seriously, though. Three moments. There are three moments that I love in this movie. They are as follows:
1. Bruce Campbell.
2. The birth of Sandman. The effects/animation are quite good, the music in the scene is moving and it's overall touching. For instance, my twin sister was watching the movie for the first time. She has no attachments to this franchise or these characters, but when he tried to reach for his daughter's locket and couldn't grab it, she genuinely went, "Aaawww." Also, she gasped out loud when the engagement ring escaped Peter's grasp earlier.
3. James Franco and the pie. "So good".
Most everything else, I can either take or leave, except for the things that make me cry blood tears.
But somewhat unusually, Terra Nova will only be 13 episodes in its first season, no matter what, and those episodes have already been shot. That was a decision made long before it ever aired... Making a "just in case" episode when you're still hoping for renewal is pretty unusual... However, there are cases of shows that were canceled while still in production, and occasionally those WILL turn the last episode into a finale... The seventh (and unexpectedly final) episode was reportedly turned into something of a finale... which I guess can be seen someday on DVD... I know Firefly was still in production even after it was canceled, though I dunno if it's by accident or design that Objects In Space, the last episode, kinda has a wrap-up feel to it as well. It's notable that it was the last episode aired, even though the three unaired episodes were originally supposed to come before it in order.
This is quite common for Fox, as they tend to produce 13 episodes in a show's first season and if it gets cancelled before all 13 air, they can market the rest on DVD as "new, never before seen episodes", thus giving extra buying incentive for those who actually liked the show.
If you're a show like The Playboy Club, and all you have produced are seven episodes, you can forget about a DVD anytime soon. They'll just go up on iTunes and you can buy each unseen ep for a couple bucks a pop, and they're not out anything because they didn't have to spend money on producing, packaging and marketing DVDs. "Drive" (starring Nathan Fillion) and "Jezebel James" (starring Parker Posey) are examples of this.
If I remember correctly, I believe Joss says somewhere on a commentary that "Objects In Space" ended up being Firefly's last episode more by "accident". I believe the last thing they ever actually shot was "Heart of Gold". On occasion, if you get cancelled with enough notice and your 13 episodes are paid for (usually for foreign markets and DVD, like I mentioned above), you can make a point to produce a "finale" and wrap up as best you can. "Dollhouse" did this. Also, it is possible to make something of a finale, but still leave it open enough for more content. Tim Minear did this on purpose with "Wonderfalls".
So are these happening without chat, or just tomorrow? There are 3 of us in there right now. I think I saw a tumbleweed go by.
Don't tease me like that, Trey! I live in Fort Worth! I'm one hour away from Dallas by train!
"Nazis. You hate 'em, right? I hate 'em myself!"
This was not intended to be done in a Harrison Ford voice. It was actually meant to be done with more of a Michael Keaton impression. I was paraphrasing a line from Beetlejuice, in regards to Sand Worms.
I actually did have that trope ready to go but DiF had relieved me of my duties by that point and they were wrapping up.
Similar to your problem with "The Grid", there's a downward progression in the track, "Solar Sailer" that bugs me. It's 14 seconds in. I love the tune until just before it repeats each time; that bit of connective music that bridges the end to the start of the loop. I just don't like the sound of those series of notes.
Fantastic video, Teague. I'm a massive score geek. I collect film and TV scores, particularly rare and bootleg stuff. I've always wanted to be a composer (I have long, bony fingers suited for instruments). Problem is, I can never retain any of the skill and knowledge that comes with playing an instrument and writing music. I tend to just latch on to what sounds good to me and what gets an emotional reaction out of me. At the end of the day, it just boils down to personal preference. I think not having that understanding of music theory and such is probably a good thing, at least for me.
I'm reminded of the video essay Jim Emerson put together on the editing and shooting of a key scene from The Dark Knight, and how it was all wrong/bad. He was so obsessed with the "right way" of doing things, I think he missed out on the momentum of the scene, which to me is more important. Not to mention, I personally never had an issue with knowing where Harvey Dent was located in the back of the police truck in relation to every one/thing else. Why? Two reasons: 1. In all of his shots within the truck, you can see the grating to his right side which allows him to talk to the driver. This implies he is leaning against the wall that is furthest away from The Joker's attacks, and his firepower at the truck supports this. 2. It doesn't ultimately matter. All you need to know is, there's a police truck. Harvey is in the back. The Joker is after the truck/Harvey.
So, while it may not be 100% right, it looks/sounds good enough to me. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing, I'm just saying it's what your vid reminded me of. It could be the chord progression in "The Grid" is too easy. I'm fine with that. Those series of notes sound good to me and I'm moved by them. My ignorance of music is bliss, I guess.
Either way, I like your video. It's very informative. It doesn't change my mind about "The Grid", but I love scores so much, it doesn't have to for me to find the value in it. It's on a subject I'm passionate about and it's well-discussed and helpful.
What a happy accident! I just rented The Social Network from Netflix! It arrived yesterday!
I'll probably just hang out in the chat room and listen to DiF do Tropic Thunder. Funny movie, but I don't particularly care to watch it again. It's very much how I feel about Judd Apatow's work, even the ones he just produces: They're funny once, in a theater with a crowd of people howling with laughter. But when viewed a second time, at home alone, they're surprisingly flat, boring and awkward. Well, at least RDJ still kicks ass in that movie, no matter how many times I see it.
I was listening to DiF's Tron Legacy commentary the other day (I sometimes like to rip the audio from the Justin.TV streams and piece them together. Since the movie is streaming on Netflix, but through Starz, I figured I should take advantage while I still can). Near the end, Teague goes on this confusing, surprising diatribe about the score and how he feels the main theme is too simple. Like the rest of the panel, I was shocked and in strong disagreement, especially given Teague's well-documented love for the score in the past, especially The Grid. After The Boys (quite convincingly, I thought) punched holes in Teague's argument, I waited patiently for him to say, "You know what? You guys are right. I take back what I said". Instead, he gave up and chalked it up to failure on his part to articulate his point.
I thought it was plenty articulate, just incorrect and perhaps Teague was just being stubborn. Yes, the theme is simple, but I think of it as an observation, not a criticism. Just because it's simple, doesn't mean that just anyone could come up with it. It takes knowledge and skill of music to conjure something so pure and effective. Most themes by their very nature and function are simple, it's what you do with them and how you manipulate them throughout your score that can make them complex. Listen to the end credits track. It shares the same spine as The Grid, but it's more "flowery", as Daft Punk has built upon the melody. If I had been present for the conversation, I would have simply said, "Keep digging, Teague! We can still see you!"
I bring all this up because if Teague doesn't feel similarly about the Social Network score, in particular "Hand Covers Bruise" (which I also love) is also simple, I fear my head may explode. Depending on how things go tomorrow, the first row could get wet, with gore. You've been warned.
Friends In Your Head | Forums → Posts by johnpavlich
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